5 ms·

There're random factors you can't control. Good example is post-partum depression. Every child birth is 20% chance; once happening, it can significantly change

by sgdread 10y ago

There're random factors you can't control. Good example is post-partum depression. Every child birth is 20% chance; once happening, it can significantly change both partners.

Aelinsaar 10y ago
So don't have kids, we're not running out of people after all.
- Razengan 10y ago
  Or adopt already born ones that don't have much of a chance otherwise.
  - nostrebored 10y ago
    The myth of unadopted babies/kids is pervasive and pretty inaccurate. Most babies and small children who are up for adoption have multiple families vying to bring them home already... If you want to talk about adopting preteens/teens/special needs children then it's a different ball game, but that's not what people try to do.
    - Razengan 10y ago
      Yes, I wasn't implying an age limit on adoption. However, I think there's almost always some amount of self-interest in having kids: Me and my girlfriend despise babies (for now) and simply don't see ourselves as being responsible/mature enough to raise kids yet. We do entertain the idea though, now and then, and for us the main attractions of having kids seem to be: Something we made together, a "substitute" of each other to live for after one of us dies, and something to carry on our legacy, such as it is. With adoption, these things can be fulfilled if the child is young enough, to be molded into our image, as it were. That's not to say that love for an orphan, no matter how old, cannot happen. Of course there can be selfless adoptions, where you just want to make someone's life better without regard to yourselves.
      - nostrebored 10y ago
        I hope there is some self-interest in having kids! One thing that I hope to impart on my child is that martyrdom is a terrible go-to practice. The goal I have with raising my child isn't to create a miniature version of myself, it's to raise an autonomous individual with a robust moral framework. As far as self-interest goes, sharing this experience with my partner is one of the things I look forward to most over the next few years.
        Razengan 10y ago
        That is still your legacy; if you succeed he or her will have grown up to be an autonomous individual with a robust moral framework, because of you. He/she will still be what you wanted him/her to be. But what if the child's own will decides to become an evil overlord instead?
- andrewfromx 10y ago
  such a valid choice! We should have irreversible sterilization ceremonies for couples that want to decide at age 30 they wish to remain married without kids for the rest of their lives. The trouble with the choice now without sterilization is the option to have kids is always there and available. i.e. if u have a kid the domino falls in one direction. But if you choose not to have a kid the domino never falls. People will say "irreversible sterilization" sounds so permanment! But so is your first kid.
  - andrewfromx 10y ago
    why all the down votes? This would be optional! Just like a couple decides to have kids, they can decide to do this.
    - fizzbatter 10y ago
      Honestly, i feel like there is a lot of sarcastic tones in these threads... so pardon my ignorance if i miss any obvious wit. With that said, i've always liked the idea of reversible sterilization as a standard. It is of course a worrisome proposition to suggest we forcefully sterilize people.. which i'm not exactly saying. I'm simply saying, what an interesting world would it be if reproduction was never by accident, and always intended.
- fizzbatter 10y ago
  Not sure why you're downvoted. I suppose you're not contributing too much to the conversation, and it seems a little sarcastic (or something), but i often feel not having kids is a forgotten option. My SO and I chose long ago not to have kids (independently, fwiw), and people often look at us like we have two heads (.. each, heh).
  - Aelinsaar 10y ago
    People don't like to question the basic assumptions they live with, such as, "Having children is a necessary part of a good and fulfilled life."
    - Mz 10y ago
      I didn't downvote, but if I had, it wouldn't be for that reason. It would be because having kids or not having kids is something many people speak of cavalierly as if it is totally in our control and this is often not true. If birth control fails, there are places where abortion is hard to come by (including large parts of the U.S., from what I gather). These attitudes disproportionately negatively impact women. Much of human sexual morality is rooted in the thorny issue that mother nature makes sex pleasurable in large part to get you to reproduce and efforts to enjoy sex without it leading to babies are often unsuccessful. So, we have a long human tradition of things like shotgun weddings.
      - Aelinsaar 10y ago
        If every comment you come across accounts for the full spectrum of human and geopolitical variability, they would stop being comments and start being novellas.
        Mz 10y ago
        It is possible to leave comments that are not novellas and that also are not sweepingly dismissive of underlying reality. All birth control methods have failure rates. None of them promises 100% protection -- except celibacy (assuming no one gets raped), which most married couples are not keen to practice.
- ArtDev 10y ago
  Depending on your race. https://ourworldindata.org/future-world-population-growth/#world-population-by-world-regions-1400-to-2100-max-roserref https://ourworldindata.org/future-world-population-growth/#w...
- mooseburger 10y ago
  Much of the developed world is indeed running out of people though.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

by sgdread 10y ago

There're random factors you can't control. Good example is post-partum depression. Every child birth is 20% chance; once happening, it can significantly change both partners.

Aelinsaar 10y ago

So don't have kids, we're not running out of people after all.

Razengan 10y ago
Or adopt already born ones that don't have much of a chance otherwise.
- nostrebored 10y ago
  The myth of unadopted babies/kids is pervasive and pretty inaccurate. Most babies and small children who are up for adoption have multiple families vying to bring them home already... If you want to talk about adopting preteens/teens/special needs children then it's a different ball game, but that's not what people try to do.
  - Razengan 10y ago
    Yes, I wasn't implying an age limit on adoption. However, I think there's almost always some amount of self-interest in having kids: Me and my girlfriend despise babies (for now) and simply don't see ourselves as being responsible/mature enough to raise kids yet. We do entertain the idea though, now and then, and for us the main attractions of having kids seem to be: Something we made together, a "substitute" of each other to live for after one of us dies, and something to carry on our legacy, such as it is. With adoption, these things can be fulfilled if the child is young enough, to be molded into our image, as it were. That's not to say that love for an orphan, no matter how old, cannot happen. Of course there can be selfless adoptions, where you just want to make someone's life better without regard to yourselves.
    - nostrebored 10y ago
      I hope there is some self-interest in having kids! One thing that I hope to impart on my child is that martyrdom is a terrible go-to practice. The goal I have with raising my child isn't to create a miniature version of myself, it's to raise an autonomous individual with a robust moral framework. As far as self-interest goes, sharing this experience with my partner is one of the things I look forward to most over the next few years.
      - Razengan 10y ago
        That is still your legacy; if you succeed he or her will have grown up to be an autonomous individual with a robust moral framework, because of you. He/she will still be what you wanted him/her to be. But what if the child's own will decides to become an evil overlord instead?
andrewfromx 10y ago
such a valid choice! We should have irreversible sterilization ceremonies for couples that want to decide at age 30 they wish to remain married without kids for the rest of their lives. The trouble with the choice now without sterilization is the option to have kids is always there and available. i.e. if u have a kid the domino falls in one direction. But if you choose not to have a kid the domino never falls. People will say "irreversible sterilization" sounds so permanment! But so is your first kid.
- andrewfromx 10y ago
  why all the down votes? This would be optional! Just like a couple decides to have kids, they can decide to do this.
  - fizzbatter 10y ago
    Honestly, i feel like there is a lot of sarcastic tones in these threads... so pardon my ignorance if i miss any obvious wit. With that said, i've always liked the idea of reversible sterilization as a standard. It is of course a worrisome proposition to suggest we forcefully sterilize people.. which i'm not exactly saying. I'm simply saying, what an interesting world would it be if reproduction was never by accident, and always intended.
fizzbatter 10y ago
Not sure why you're downvoted. I suppose you're not contributing too much to the conversation, and it seems a little sarcastic (or something), but i often feel not having kids is a forgotten option. My SO and I chose long ago not to have kids (independently, fwiw), and people often look at us like we have two heads (.. each, heh).
- Aelinsaar 10y ago
  People don't like to question the basic assumptions they live with, such as, "Having children is a necessary part of a good and fulfilled life."
  - Mz 10y ago
    I didn't downvote, but if I had, it wouldn't be for that reason. It would be because having kids or not having kids is something many people speak of cavalierly as if it is totally in our control and this is often not true. If birth control fails, there are places where abortion is hard to come by (including large parts of the U.S., from what I gather). These attitudes disproportionately negatively impact women. Much of human sexual morality is rooted in the thorny issue that mother nature makes sex pleasurable in large part to get you to reproduce and efforts to enjoy sex without it leading to babies are often unsuccessful. So, we have a long human tradition of things like shotgun weddings.
    - Aelinsaar 10y ago
      If every comment you come across accounts for the full spectrum of human and geopolitical variability, they would stop being comments and start being novellas.
      - Mz 10y ago
        It is possible to leave comments that are not novellas and that also are not sweepingly dismissive of underlying reality. All birth control methods have failure rates. None of them promises 100% protection -- except celibacy (assuming no one gets raped), which most married couples are not keen to practice.
ArtDev 10y ago
Depending on your race. https://ourworldindata.org/future-world-population-growth/#world-population-by-world-regions-1400-to-2100-max-roserref https://ourworldindata.org/future-world-population-growth/#w...
mooseburger 10y ago
Much of the developed world is indeed running out of people though.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]