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HyperDev – Developer Playground for Full-Stack Web Apps
- _Marak_ 10y agoCould't get anything to load. Got a message saying Hyperdev has hit capacity and to try again later. :-\
- nuggien 10y agosame issue for me
- Yahivin 10y agoWe're on the front page of some major sites so things are blowing up a little bit, but we should have it sorted out soon! Thanks for your patience! - A frantic HyperDev developer
- benologist 10y agoYour site also didn't work the two times I tried to use it after it was first on HN. It has to be a lot more reliable.
- egeozcan 10y agoYou sent everyone an email[1] to participate in the discussion, and after this an over-capacity message[2] is a bit disappointing because it seems like you did expect the attention this time. On the other hand, I know that things can go wrong and I wish you a quick recovery and all the success. [1]: http://i.imgur.com/ZazMSgt.png http://i.imgur.com/ZazMSgt.png [2]: http://i.imgur.com/NXyTHBB.png http://i.imgur.com/NXyTHBB.png edit: BTW I reloaded the page and the error disappeared but now the whole thing is unresponsive.
- swampthinker 10y agoI think that's a little bit unfair. HN posts can be a giant hit-or-miss in terms of popularity.
- patates 10y agoBut this isn't the first time they are popular on HN. This attention should give them more motivation to upgrade the servers, at least.
- AYBABTME 10y agoIf it's not the first time they have issues like that, being them I'd have load tested before posting and promoting again. But tradeoffs and stuff!
- nkozyra 10y agoSure, but a "new thing" from Spolsky et al is something that's more likely to have traction.
- kfrz 10y agoI'm excited to see this in fruition. I don't know how much of a concern this is but https://hyperdev.com/about/ https://hyperdev.com/about/ loads an attachment (mime/octet-stream). I've never seen this behavior before so I didn't download it. Win 10, FF 46.0.1
- Yahivin 10y agoOops, good catch, a CloudFront misconfiguration pushing the fix now.
- enzanki_ars 10y agoSame issue for me on android. In my case, it wont even download, just sits there waiting for information. Edit: Posted then the fix appeared. Love the speedy response to everything here.
- jtblin 10y agoGetting 503 error on hyperdev.com. > {"status":"Error","statusCode":503,"statusDetail":"Waiting To Serve for cosmic-panther: No service found running on port"} Nice sense of humour at least ;)
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- dwild 10y agocosmic-panther is your random word set for your instance.
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- colevscode 10y agoCool tech, fun toy! I hope it is successful. I think Joel should focus on it's toy-like nature, and potential as a learning tool, rather than trying to build this into a production grade tool. I spent years building tools for this market between professional devs and non-developers. (Backlift.com and then Brace.io) It's really tough. Most people learning to code are trying to gain transferrable skills that can help them land a job. For them, learning git is a fruitful tangent along the path to shipping. Those that aren't interested in building those transferrable skills probably don't self-identify as developers. Making developer tools for non-developers is tough.
- tomphoolery 10y ago> Cool tech, fun toy! I hope it is successful. I think Joel should focus on it's toy-like nature, and potential as a learning tool, rather than trying to build this into a production grade tool. Agreed, and I think the latter part of the post (the "FAQ") indicates that Joel doesn't see this as a deployment strategy for professional developers... "Listen, this is not the future of all software development. Professional software development teams will continue to use professional, robust tools like Git and that’s great. But it’s surprising how just having continuous merging and reliable Undo solves the “version control” problem for all kinds of simple coding problems. And it really does create an insanely addictive form of collaboration that supercharges your team productivity." Basically it's a platform that makes a major trade-off: practically zero accountability in exchange for maximum usability. To us professionals, this doesn't seem like a worthwhile choice. However, to those non-programmers or budding programmers which I believe this product is geared towards, it's a step in the right direction. This feels like it wants to be the "Google Docs" of programming.
- triptych 10y agoI could see this as a great tool for doing coding interviews. You get instant feedback to see if it works, and you can share the results with others almost as a code resume of sorts.
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- g4nt1 10y agoThe names looks alot like HyperDex (http://hyperdex.org/ http://hyperdex.org/). I found it weird that the HyperDex DB was pivoting to full stacked Web Apps.
- marcuskaz 10y agoPretty cool, the idea looks similar to `now` by Zeit[1] Platform as a service has gone from click to get a server that needs configuring (AWS), to get a server already configured (Heroku), and now to write code and get URL without even needing to think about servers [1]: https://zeit.co/ https://zeit.co/
- jkarneges 10y agoYeah the timing is interesting. Given the close release dates, I don't think there'd have been time for one to inspire the other, yet now we have both. Are there any other services like this? Maybe it's a new trend.
- keithwhor 10y agoThere are indeed. You can build with Nodal [1] and deploy without hesitation to Polybit [2]. :) [1] https://github.com/keithwhor/nodal https://github.com/keithwhor/nodal [2] https://polybit.com https://polybit.com
- GarethX 10y agoHyperDev is a little different - it has the editor and isn't, or at least won't be, Node.js specific - there will be support for several programming languages.
- hackaflocka 10y agoCould someone please help me understand why I would use Hyperdev over say JSbin or JSfiddle (if I were only using html/javascript/css)? Also, would Hyperdev be capable of PHP, MySQL?
- spdegabrielle 10y agoI think its just node at the moment. I think the code editor is 'Ace'[1] and that supports lots of languages. [1] https://ace.c9.io/#nav=about https://ace.c9.io/#nav=about
- tomjen3 10y ago
- 83457 10y ago"Oh, and it’s free."
- jkarneges 10y agoThis is concerning as free tools often don't make economic sense. Even more concerning is how casually Joel treats this issue in the Q&A section. He should know better.
- GarethX 10y agoTo be fair, he does. Fog Creek has been going for over 15 years. Trello started with a similar model - only free use at the start as they figured out the best way to monetize, and now they are making $10M+ a year [1] 1 - http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexkonrad/2016/05/23/trello-get-serious-about-big-businesses-as-it-passes-1-1-million-daily-users-and-triples-sales/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexkonrad/2016/05/23/trello-get...
- Cthulhu_ 10y agoWorse than not making economic sense, it opens the door wide for malicious users - I'm sure some guy is already working on setting up JS-based bitcoin miners that just use up these free, no-login servers' CPU capacity, or set up malware sites, child porn hosting, you name it. The barriers - login, mainly - aren't there to annoy users.
- benologist 10y agoI was looking at issues on the c9.io github yesterday and saw someone complaining that he was banned ... after running a minecraft server, slack bots and more lol.
- mappu 10y agohttps://github.com/c9/core/issues/304 https://github.com/c9/core/issues/304
- oneweekwonder 10y agoOk they are down and I did read the announcement. How does this compare to c9.io?
- benologist 10y agoI haven't had a chance to test HyperDev extensively cause it's a bit early and unstable, but c9 is like a full-fledged traditional IDE supporting anything you might program while a full Ubuntu virtual machine can install anything your project needs. C9 is open source and can be deployed on your own hardware. HyperDev is specifically for web stuff and really slickly optimized around that handling deployment and everything.
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- Yahivin 10y agoIt is similar in that both allow you to create applications using web based editors but HyperDev focuses much more on simplicity. We start with the idea that everyone will experience their development environment from a web based interface in the future and try to design one as simple and powerful as possible. I'm not an expert c9 user, but from my experience with it it is much more about recreating existing development environments on the web. With HyperDev you don't need to pick a server OS or configure your environment to match your local, it is already set up and deployed. You just need to write the code.
- zxcvcxz 10y agoWhenever I use these services they are pretty much never as responsive as a local editor, which is to be expected I guess, but I don't see how this could replace someones dev environment if they're a serious programmer. Big companies are going to want to have a lot more control over the backend and how things are wired together. People just learning will want to know how to actually make things work and not just have their hand held the whole time. For small freelance work this looks like it cold be good, but even then you have to learn the "HyperDev" work flow. I just build and deploy everything in containers using Vim as my editor.
- Yahivin 10y agoThere isn't anything special about the HyperDev work flow. You can take any project that runs in HyperDev and `git push heroku master` and have it running on Heroku, or run it locally in a similar manner. HyperDev gives you an environment where you can update and deploy your code without having to set anything up to get started. You can collaborate with anyone by just sending them a link. There will always be a place for more custom environments, but we hope that HyperDev can serve 99% of developers and people who write code on computers.
- jakubp 10y agoHmm. I don't know about serving "99% of developers" without support for at least top 10 languages/frameworks, catering for enterprise (which is, in my country, like 50% or more of all jobs for software devs), and an IDE that has at least the most basic of features... but most of all, I do not feel like the blog post or the site itself communicates in any way the two most important feelings I'd like to get as a developer: 1) I'm in control if I need to be, 2) I understand what's going on. These are of course related, but I have neither the sense that I can control things here, nor that I understand what's so special about this. For working alone my own dev machine is better in every regard with the exception of being able to code away from that machine; for working together I would never let a 3rd party provide glue and choice of architecture, security etc. anyway, since anything bigger would likely be a more serious (not more frivolous) endeavour... what am I not getting?
- rajington 10y agoI know it's down right now but I used this a couple of weeks ago and it was very powerful. Well worth bookmarking and checking out later.
- rad_gruchalski 10y agoI'm trying to see what's here: https://hyperdev.com/about/?utm_source=fcblog&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=HyperDev%20Launch https://hyperdev.com/about/?utm_source=fcblog&utm_medium=ref... but all I get is: { "status": "Error", "statusCode": 503, "statusDetail": "GetPort: Application failed to start on container cosmic-panther" }
- GarethX 10y agoSorry about that - a lot of the same detail on that page is included in the blog post at https://hyperdev.com/blog/hyperdev-open-beta/ https://hyperdev.com/blog/hyperdev-open-beta/
- bcheung 10y agoI really like the concept of this. Especially with node/react I found learning webpack and setting everything up takes FOREVER. Unfortunately, platforms like these always seem ridiculously overpriced when compared to a bare metal dedicated server. I'd be curious to see how it is priced.
- Cthulhu_ 10y agoThere should be plenty of bootstrap projects for node/react to get up and running quickly, e.g. http://yeoman.io/ http://yeoman.io/
- treehau5 10y ago> I found learning webpack and setting everything up takes FOREVER. That's because you are learning webpack and setting everything up. It's akin to setting out to learn java by learning maven first and downloading all your dependencies through that and then learning how to bundle your code into a war for deployment on a J2EE server. Of course that's going to take more time than just copying some jars in your classpath and getting to work and learning the language. If you want to learn React, copy the latest CDN, use the in-browser transpiler, and start learning react. Add the goodies on later.
- triptych 10y agoHaving a "clone this site" option would be great - spin off or make copies of a read only project you want to learn from. Ah perhaps the "remix" button serves this function.
- dang 10y agoWe changed the URL from http://blog.fogcreek.com/announcing-hyperdev-the-developer-playground-for-building-fullstack-web-apps-fast/ http://blog.fogcreek.com/announcing-hyperdev-the-developer-p... to Joel's blog post. We can change it back if people prefer, but it gives more background and is a fun read and there shouldn't be two articles about the same project on the front page.
- kevinyun 10y agoThat was a fast beta invite! Got errors and looking forward to when it's more stable. Curious about pricing -- if this is freemium set up like heroku, will gladly dive deeper in
- fiatjaf 10y agoAs Heroku starts to put away free users, this will help a lot of people.
- atrudeau 10y agoI would be interested if I could 1) host this myself. Something like apt-get install hyperdev. 2) have an integrated SQL database in the runtime. Concept of migrations should be known by the runtime. 3) have a one click deploy option that synced everything to a remote runtime, be it on my own servers or hosted by a 3rd party. Syncing to a runtime with older schema should automatically run migrations.
- tghw 10y ago1) Check out Meteor. It's very similar and can be self hosted. https://www.meteor.com/ https://www.meteor.com/ 2) You can use your favorite Node SQL package for that. Yeah, the DB has to be hosted somewhere else, but that's getting pretty easy if you're using PAAS services. 3) Yeah, that'd be nice.
- gabrielcsapo 10y agosomething that might be interesting is a hosting this (https://github.com/gabrielcsapo/node-notebook https://github.com/gabrielcsapo/node-notebook). It does not have sql database support, but can use all of node's capabilities. Another plus is you can self host it
- gregshap 10y ago"Looks like we're over capacity... [Get notified when we're back]" Wish the site wasn't down, but I like this as a way to handle the blow up during launch.
- tedmiston 10y ago> [Get Notified When We're Back] The email notification during overload is a very thoughtful feature. Awesome UX enhancement especially for a dev service.
- peternicky 10y agoI am getting a 502 message on your about page (hyperdev)...really frustrating that I get the over capacity message two weeks after signing up for the private beta, I would have thought this would have been resolved by now especially with this new press.
- fencepost 10y agoSo for folks who've used both, how does this compare to CodePen?
- jordanlev 10y ago1. Codepen is front-end only, whereas hyperdev runs back-end code as well (node.js) 2. Codepen gives you 1 html, 1 css, and 1 js file per pen... hyperdev lets you have as many front-end and back-end files as you want. (Technically you can have multiple files in a codepen by linking to them, but it's not the primary use-case and is not as in-your-face as hyperdev is).
- alecdbrooks 10y agoI like the theme—I'm guessing it's supposed to be reminiscent of early Mac OS and HyperCard? That seems to fit HyperDev's goal of getting up and running quickly so you can enjoy building something.
- beefsack 10y agoCool idea, but it feels a little like using FTP to develop in a live environment. The pitch seems to be saying SCM and deployment tools are bad things, but they're valuable and useful tools.
- jimbokun 10y agoJoel made very clear he is not saying anything of the sort. He is saying they are very useful tools for professional development, but sometimes you just want to type some code and see what it does.
- tghw 10y agoI'm a big fan of Fog Creek (having worked there for 7 years). But I'm a little stumped on who this is for. Without any persistence (Mongo, SQL, Redis, something) this is nothing more than a toy. Right now, the forums suggest setting one up via some PAAS, which obviates the whole "it's only one step" thing. Presumably persistence is on its way, as this is just a beta. Persistence aside, it's still lightweight for an experienced developer. All of the things listed in Joel's "look what you don't have to do list" exist because they are good practice. In fact, 16 years ago Joel wrote about the 12 things that you need to make good software[0], which, coincidentally, includes almost everything on that convenience list. On the other hand, if you're just learning to code, not having to provision a server or deal with Git isn't really fixing the hard part. Heroku and GitHub are making that easier and easier. HyperDev drops you right into an active NodeJS project without explaining what package.json is, where you define your views, or even what views are. This leaves it serving a very narrow demographic, which is often the problem with these sorts of tools. Hopefully Fog Creek will be able to make it more broadly appealing before the shine wears off. [0] http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000043.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000043.html
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- xiaoma 10y agoIt looks to me like this is for getting started quickly at hackathons.
- nichochar 10y agoMy first thought was that I could finally teach my mum that code is not magic, and that is a very, very powerful concept. It's all about diminishing the barrier to entry, and honestly I'm very impressed with this project. To me, this is a breakthrough. I think that combining this with a very minimalistic class could teach people that computers aren't magical, and anyone can try.
- gansai 10y agothe idea looks like: 'why not extend jsfiddle/splunker to a real running website ?'
- misnome 10y agoLooks interesting - I'm not a node user myself but will probably take another look once other languages are added. Might be useful for prototyping. I also found refreshingly honest: > This is still a beta so don’t ask me how many 9’s. You can have all the 8’s you want.
- j_s 10y agoInteresting to see someone willing to trust strangers in their containers.
- ykumar6 10y agoI think the interesting opportunity here is can bring this real-time workflow to professional software teams that use git and micro-services?
- modeless 10y agoNobody mentioned AppJet yet? AppJet was exactly the same product, 10 years ago! It was awesome and I hope this product sticks around longer than AppJet did (pivoted into EtherPad and then acquihired by Google). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AppJet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AppJet
- ianand 10y ago+1 Had the same thought when I saw it. AppJet was awesome.
- syastrov 10y ago“What if I literally type ‘DELETE * FROM USERS’ on my way to typing ‘WHERE id=9283’, do I lose all my user data?” Nope, you'll just get an SQL syntax error.
- kristianp 10y agoOne more thing... ...is a reference to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stevenote#.22One_more_thing....22 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stevenote#.22One_more_thing......
- mostafah 10y agoI see the big potential in having an always-on development environment in the cloud. It would enable better collaboration. It also enables features not possible with in the old way, like easier deployment, ready-made persistence, moving back in time, … . But for me the problem with them is that the text editor is not Emacs. I guess a lot of developers who are somewhat experienced have similar attachment to their editors and scripts. And it’s not just an emotional one: it directly affects productivity. Not trying to be negative here, but this is really an issue.
- konnichimade 10y agovi master race! shakes fist
- chaostheory 10y agoThe biggest potential I see with this is with helping people initially learn to program. imo the biggest hurdles with programing aren't programming itself; instead it's getting the proper setup (installing x, y, and z and configuring a, b, c properly)
- esafwan 10y agoSeems like an awesome tool. For all those pros who are wondering who will use this tool. Let me tell this, this is an invaluable tool to teach programming for web without scaring them with all complexities. And the learners still have a url where they can see things in near realtime.
- avip 10y agoI feel as a developer I have a personal debt to Joel. So first I wish him and FC best of luck with any endeavor. It's unclear to me which crowd this tool is useful for. I'm usually using cloud9 for the "deploy a toy now" use case. Between wix, Heroku, google apps, c9.io, github pages, jsfiddle, ngrok... which unoccupied niche is left for HyperDev?
- nikon 10y agoAbout as useful as their "language" Wasabi http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2006/09/01b.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2006/09/01b.html.
- rootforce 10y agoIt also supports python. http://support.hyperweb.space/t/server-side-python-proof-of-concept/94 http://support.hyperweb.space/t/server-side-python-proof-of-...
- NKCSS 10y agoI just checked my own site and noticed I was retargeted with a HyperDev ad; I guess they are agressively pushing this? http://i.imgur.com/icNiRy1.png http://i.imgur.com/icNiRy1.png