3 ms·

I also always wonder how the people working on engineering land mines do.

TheOtherHobbes 10y ago
I once had a conversation with someone who had worked on surface-to-surface missile guidance. He did it because he didn't make the connection between the circuits and the software in front of him and the deaths they caused. Then there was a war and he saw the missiles on the news with pictures of casualties, and suddenly it was "Holy fuck - this stuff actually kills people!" Some people think small picture, and he just couldn't get from the work on his desk to dead bodies without the help of front-line footage. Of course there are also people who are just fine with that kind of work. I don't understand that ethical space at all - but from what I've seen they simply don't understand why anyone would have a problem with what they do.
- spacecowboy_lon 10y ago
  You have to decide when you work for miltech or any dual use tech company if you are cool with it. At my first job (hydrodynamics R&D)I was tasked with analyzing high sped files from one of our test rigs. It was quite obvious what the rig was simulating and my office mates said oh yes thats REDACTED the Update to REDATED - I had to sit down and think how I felt about this. I do draw the line a at Chem, Bio and Payday Loans.
- burfog 10y ago
  Yeah, understanding the other side is difficult. I'll try to explain the other side, but it probably won't make sense to you. (as your side makes no sense to me) The trouble is that people can have fundamentally different value systems, priorities, and fears. Maybe the best way to explain it is to say how you appear to the other side. I'm sure you will disagree, which is kind of the point. You look kind of naïve and childish. You appear to believe in some utopian fantasy where all people are good and have or can be converted to a value system that is like your own, with the possible exception of conservatives. You fail to make any effort to protect your nation and culture from being overrun by the brutish, violent, and lazy. You somehow imagine that people from places like Syria and Mexico make better neighbors than many of the conservative people in your own country. Basically, your views fail at self-preservation. You are in denial of the historic fact that every nation is built upon a hill of skulls, and the fact that this is the natural way of nature. You imagine that you can refuse to pile up skulls without becoming part of the pile. If your world were real, I'd rather live in it. I'm not going to deny reality just because I don't like it. Conflict is eternal. I prefer that my people win. It's actually unethical to avoid the conflict. You're ceding ground to the enemy. You let down your descendants, friends, and neighbors. They will be impovershed, killed, and -- as we've seen with ISIS -- enslaved. This shit really happens. It may take decades or even centuries, but every bit of inaction and appeasement brings that day closer. For some reason, you push risk and long-term bad consequences out of your mind. It's like you can't see them. You focus on the positive only, kind of like a gambler. Your optimism probably makes you a happier person. :-)
- ShroudedNight 10y ago
  I got this information second hand, but for what it's worth: There was a graduate student at my university that was well known and highly regarded for his stellar software engineering skills. At one point he took a job writing a missile guidance system. His reasoning was that there were two options, either he wrote the system, and could make damn sure it worked exactly to spec, or someone else would write the system, and do about as good a job as the other complex software engineering projects he had encountered. In essence: he took the job to minimize collateral damage.

I once had a conversation with someone who had worked on surface-to-surface missile guidance. He did it because he didn't make the connection between the circuits and the software in front of him and the deaths they caused. Then there was a war and he saw the missiles on the news with pictures of casualties, and suddenly it was "Holy fuck - this stuff actually kills people!" Some people think small picture, and he just couldn't get from the work on his desk to dead bodies without the help of front-line footage. Of course there are also people who are just fine with that kind of work. I don't understand that ethical space at all - but from what I've seen they simply don't understand why anyone would have a problem with what they do.

spacecowboy_lon 10y ago
You have to decide when you work for miltech or any dual use tech company if you are cool with it. At my first job (hydrodynamics R&D)I was tasked with analyzing high sped files from one of our test rigs. It was quite obvious what the rig was simulating and my office mates said oh yes thats REDACTED the Update to REDATED - I had to sit down and think how I felt about this. I do draw the line a at Chem, Bio and Payday Loans.
burfog 10y ago
Yeah, understanding the other side is difficult. I'll try to explain the other side, but it probably won't make sense to you. (as your side makes no sense to me) The trouble is that people can have fundamentally different value systems, priorities, and fears. Maybe the best way to explain it is to say how you appear to the other side. I'm sure you will disagree, which is kind of the point. You look kind of naïve and childish. You appear to believe in some utopian fantasy where all people are good and have or can be converted to a value system that is like your own, with the possible exception of conservatives. You fail to make any effort to protect your nation and culture from being overrun by the brutish, violent, and lazy. You somehow imagine that people from places like Syria and Mexico make better neighbors than many of the conservative people in your own country. Basically, your views fail at self-preservation. You are in denial of the historic fact that every nation is built upon a hill of skulls, and the fact that this is the natural way of nature. You imagine that you can refuse to pile up skulls without becoming part of the pile. If your world were real, I'd rather live in it. I'm not going to deny reality just because I don't like it. Conflict is eternal. I prefer that my people win. It's actually unethical to avoid the conflict. You're ceding ground to the enemy. You let down your descendants, friends, and neighbors. They will be impovershed, killed, and -- as we've seen with ISIS -- enslaved. This shit really happens. It may take decades or even centuries, but every bit of inaction and appeasement brings that day closer. For some reason, you push risk and long-term bad consequences out of your mind. It's like you can't see them. You focus on the positive only, kind of like a gambler. Your optimism probably makes you a happier person. :-)
ShroudedNight 10y ago
I got this information second hand, but for what it's worth: There was a graduate student at my university that was well known and highly regarded for his stellar software engineering skills. At one point he took a job writing a missile guidance system. His reasoning was that there were two options, either he wrote the system, and could make damn sure it worked exactly to spec, or someone else would write the system, and do about as good a job as the other complex software engineering projects he had encountered. In essence: he took the job to minimize collateral damage.