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This wasn't actually for my students, and dates back to the early 90s. A number of people at Anderson Consulting (now Accenture) asked for my "top ten" books. T
by alankay 10y ago
This wasn't actually for my students, and dates back to the early 90s. A number of people at Anderson Consulting (now Accenture) asked for my "top ten" books. This is not possible for anyone who reads extensively, so I came out with that list as a bare start. I should mention that reading lots of "poor books" is also part of literacy: they help the understanding and appreciation of "good books" considerably.
- technofiend 10y agoWith your caveat that it is a point-in-time recommendation, perhaps you'd like to throw out an updated list?
- alankay 10y agoI think there are any number of lists that would help getting started. The basic results are "multiple perspectives" and the sense that not all perspectives are equally powerful for given contexts. That list was for adult "business people". One would come up with other lists for children, etc. An important idea about reading is that part of the pleasure (maybe even more than that) is one's choice of "this book, now". I had read many hundreds of books a year by the time I got to high school, but I balked at reading books chosen for me in a class. I suggested instead that the classes deal with themes and that there should be several thousand good books in the library that students could choose for themselves. This would make the discussions of the themes quite interesting, etc. But no go, so I wound up -- for their chosen books only -- reading "Classic Comics" like most of the rest of the students (I did get around to reading the "chosen books" later in life.) The approach of lots of books and themes was used by Mortimer Adler in putting together "The Great Books of the Western World" (now 60 of them). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Books_of_the_Western_World https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Books_of_the_Western_Wor... Besides these books he picked 102 "Great Ideas", wrote an essay on each one, cross indexed the ideas through the "Great Books", and published the essays as the two volume "Syntopicon". In this sense, the reading list I came up with for Anderson Consulting was too short -- it wasn't a decent library size. And this is true of the "Great Books": it's too short as well. Another idea is the "Oxbridge" approach: pick "4" important as orthogonal as possible large subjects, and go deep on them until they meet in "the good stuff". Simplest heuristic: read a lot.
- DonHopkins 10y agoI've heard you say that Rocky's Boots was one of your favorite computer games. Please, off the top of your head, what's your top-n list of inspiring games that you think people learning to program should play? I've been playing Factorio [1] [2], which I think would resonate with your love of Rocky's Boots, cellular automata, queuing theory, visual programming, system dynamics and distributed control systems. It's in the spirit of John von Neumann's 29 state cellular automata [3] and universal constructor. [4] [1] Factorio: https://www.factorio.com/ https://www.factorio.com/ [2] HN Factorio discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11266471 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11266471 [3] John von Neumann's 29 state cellular automata: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Neumann_cellular_automaton https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Neumann_cellular_automaton [4] JvN Universal Constructor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Neumann_universal_constructor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Neumann_universal_construc...
- alankay1 10y agoHi Don I think I'm so out of context wrt video games here and now that I can't come up with a worthwhile reply. I liked Rocky's Boots because of the brilliant combination of the content and the idea behind the game play -- and they were well matched up. I liked the idea of its successor "Robot Odyssey" a lot, but advised the TLC folks to use something like Logo for the robot language rather than the Rocky's circuit diagrams (which were now not well matched up to the needs). As you know I really tried to get the Maxis people to make "Sim City" a rule based system that children could program in so they could both understand the generators and to change them (no luck there). If I were to look around today, I'd look for something where the underlying content was really "good" for children -- I doubt that cellular automata would be in my top 10 -- and then would also have good to great game play.
- ralfd 10y agoDid someone point you here or do you casually surf hacker news? I always find it fascinating who is potentially around here.
- alankay1 10y agoGoogle found a mention
- rhema 10y agoThanks for the list! Also, I really liked your interview with Marissa Mayer at CHI.
- codecamper 10y agoHe reads 3 or 4 books a week. No time for hacker news!
- paulojreis 10y agoI always wanted to ask you this: what's your opinion on Gregory Bateson's work on the intersection of anthropology, psychiatry, cybernetics and communication in general? Since this discussion is focusing on books, have you read "Steps to an Ecology of Mind"? I hope it goes without saying: thank you very much for your contribution to the world, generally.
- alankay1 10y agoAnother of many books I probably should have put on the list (but that's the problem with lists of "good books" in a world that has thousands of them). I knew Gregory slightly, and his daughter Mary Catherine more so. (And there are others from this circle that should be included: Gordon Pask, Heinz von Forester, etc.) One way to think about this in the larger sense is that "an interesting person is one who is interesting whether you agree with them or not". This also goes for books. (This is the "it's about perspectives, not about relevance" point of view.) It's worth it to try to understand what "interesting people" have thought -- it provides context for one's own thinking.
- paulojreis 10y ago> It's worth it to try to understand what "interesting people" have thought -- it provides context for one's own thinking. This is eventually the main reason why I mentioned Bateson's work in particular (besides the depth and orthogonality of his ideas). I've read Watzlawick's work on interaction and pragmatics of communication before I've read Bateson's. I found Watzlawick's ideas easier to grasp (at least, I'm under that illusion), clearly presented with e.g. axioms. Then I read Bateson's work, and got this strange feeling of dwelling around the same underlying concepts, but without a clear understanding of his main argument. I've read "Steps to an Ecology of Mind" quite a few times (I still re-read some chapters every once in a while) and always felt that a) I'm reading new material; and b) I'm not getting it all. Yet, I always get something new, and this is an extremely interesting insight on how my own perception changes over time. Of course, this happens with other books and authors. Still, personally, I have a clear feeling that not to the same extent as it happens with Bateson's ideas. It's my own mirror, so to speak.
- kqr 10y ago> I should mention that reading lots of "poor books" is also part of literacy Thanks for mentioning that. I've been looking for a reason to read "poor books" for a long time (much to the frustration of people around me, who want me to "just read it, who cares"), and this makes sense to me. (I'm not starstruck in the slightest, by the way...)
- alankay1 10y agoIt's hard to tell if a book is "poor" until it's read. I just meant that "reading lots of books and 'taking percentages' " is a good approach. The ones that are not so good still help a bit.
- justsaysmthng 10y agoAlan, have you actually read all those books cover-to-cover ? In general how do you read ? Do you finish a book even if you don't like the style or subject matter ? Do you read sequentially - one book at a time cover to cover - or do you read several books in parallel ? Any tips/tricks on how to choose the next book ? Do you continue going deeper into the subject matter of the last book or do you jump to a completely different domain ?
- alankay1 10y agoSomewhat by accident I wound up a fluent reader before going to school, and read voraciously from then on. I'm not sure how many books I've read, but probably no more than 20,000 (I have some friends -- and have knowledge of some -- who have read quite a bit more). Fluency really helps because there are fewer really worthwhile books than other kinds (this is similar to "most ideas are mediocre down to bad", in no small part because good ideas are a rarer set of insights, and they have to be formed in our not wonderful commonsense environment). In third grade I started to put a lot more effort into really remembering what I read (it finally occurred to me that I'd have to reread most of the books if I didn't). Because of efficiency, etc., I generally finish virtually all books. I often read several books at a time. I don't spend all day reading now, though I certainly often did when I was younger. Reading often leads to other reading. I also read reviews of books. A really fun find ca 1970 was The Whole Earth Catalog, which listed thousands of "tools" including hundreds of books with small very useful reviews. Most of these were very worthwhile (and all the books in the WEC were the first books in the PARC library). I sympathize with the writer below who wished for a little description for each book on my reading list (annotated bibliographies are very helpful). I follow my nose (and try to use other dim senses when possible).
- justsaysmthng 10y agoThank you. From what I've read, the idea for The Whole Earth Catalog came to Stewart Brand during an acid trip, so I'm going to try my luck with a deeper question on the subject... The counterculture and the "psychedelic revolution" of the '60s has been a subject I've been very interested in, especially its impact on technology and computing. You were there, you saw it with your own eyes, you helped move technology forward with your mind, you worked with all kinds of experimenters and bearded geniuses.. Do you think that psychedelic drugs had a big impact on how technology (and society) has evolved since the '60 ? The reason I'm asking this, is because these substances and practices are making a major come back, now globally, and I'm very curious about how this will impact our society in the future, given the radical changes apparently spawned in the short period that people explored them, before becoming illegal..
- igravious 10y agoLife is too short for poor books :) I couldn't vouch for the other topics but I can say that the section on Philosophy made me raise an eyebrow! Well, that and the section on Politics & Economy is obviously US/capitalist -centric but you know that. No Communist Manifesto? Really? :) In case anyone happens to read the list you gave and also reads here, the following are not considered primary philosophical works: The Passion of the Western Mind by RICHARD TARNAS Ascent of Man by JACOB BRONOWSKI Science and Sanity by COUNT KORZYBSKI Science is not Enough by VANNEVAR BUSH What I Believe by MARK BOOTH (Ed) Zen Mind, Beginners' Mind by SHUNRYU SUZUKI Also. While Plato's Republic is a master-work his Symposium far exceeds the Timeaus. Symposium (not Timeaus) is included in the brilliant _The Classics of Western Philosophy_ which is a decent source and one stop shop of Western Philosophical Works: http://www.hackettpublishing.com/classics-of-western-philosophy-eighth-edition http://www.hackettpublishing.com/classics-of-western-philoso....
- alankay1 10y agoLife is too short period! Just to remind again that the list was for people in business -- they were quite intelligent, had college degrees, but were not well read or "broad". They were very goal-oriented, and I think they did not use school or college for "general education". I tried to pick books that would be assessable and useful for them. So no "Das Kapital" or other political tracts. I would have put in Madison's Notes on the Constitutional Convention, and many other political writings for a different audience. I didn't really include much if anything primary about Philosophy (again, that wasn't the point for this group). And, now that we are discussing this, I now recall that the original list (it was an email) was not just expanded by I know not whom into the pictorial form on the web, but has also been edited a bit. The most important changes are from sentences like "Anything by Bertrand Russell" and "Anything by Jerome Bruner" etc. to the individual books (as subsets). However, I don't recall what I did say about Plato ...
- lintiness 10y agoany updated misses? i'd have to say, for that audience (or any really), "fooled by randomness" taleb is required.
- internaut 10y agoThanks Alan, that looks like a pretty fantastic list of books to get engaged with. Definitely agree with this sentiment: > I should mention that reading lots of "poor books" is also part of literacy: they help the understanding and appreciation of "good books" considerably. I see parents bemoaning their children reading sort of simple formulaic series like The Hardy Boys but frankly that's how I started out and now those parents complaining consider me some kind of authority due to my collection of books and wide ranging reading habits. It's ok to read spy/dective fiction or romance novels. As long as you make an attempt to explore outside those genres at some point it'll be fine. It's like the three stage rocket leaving earth's gravity. The payload is supported by an immense amount of push from something that will be thrown away later (until Elon Musk came along). You don't necessarily get better readers by increasing the quantity of payload.
- alankay1 10y agoI quite agree with this. I don't think of "junk novels" as "poor" in that sense. A lot of getting fluent is just doing, so reading lots of junk fiction that is fun is generally good (I certainly did). To me a "poor" book is one that is not up to its subject and/or its intent. There are lots of great junk novels.
- internaut 10y ago[sent an email]
- alankay1 10y agoThere is also a lot of really important "high hanging fruit" that needs to be done (for example real education for the entire world).
- internaut 10y agoAbsolutely. There is no question that we're not even at the beginning of making a dent in the Education space. I think once we have fully immersive virtual reality we'll still just be at the start of understanding the inputs/outputs. The people studying transcranial simulation are a bit out there but the essential idea of understanding how our students understand is clearly vital. Having the ability to know when a student has truly grasped a problem or stumbled onto the solution, just that alone would be magnificent. Also the idea of a good pedagogue for each child, monitoring and helping the child's entire education cycle into adulthood and beyond would be a great thing. I'm sure you've read the Diamond Age and are familiar with The Young Lady's Illustrated Primer. Thiel often says something to the effect of that when he worked out the value of Paypal, that the major value really came ten, twenty years later. So it would be important to focus on looking at those companies which could have a reasonable chance of having that kind of longevity and not worry so much about big spikes in valuations in the here and now i.e. sustainability was the major driver of returns vs the attraction of viewing investments as being lottery tickets. The same thing is almost certainly true of the Net+Education. The major structural change the Net brings to advantage our lives probably doesn't exist yet or is in very nascent form. Either way the good stuff will take considerable time to mature to get us to that high hanging fruit. Education in particular has so many sacred cows blocking the way to improving it. We do need some of your 'Whoosh' moments to break the conventional wisdom[s] that exist about Education though. It is more than possible that The Young Lady's Illustrated Primer and VR and transcranial monitoring/stimulation are the wrong paths. We'll probably make horrible mistakes you know, but the Net is kind of like a giant Undo button that should allow us the ability to retrace our steps to where the initial error got made. Whatever happens, a whole lot of ox is going to get gored! :-)
- jrcii 10y agoHi Alan, sorry if this is a little off topic, but since we have you here I was wondering if you have any thoughts or opinions on the recently popular discussion surrounding object-oriented versus functional programming paradigms?
- alankay1 10y agoIt is off topic here. But I'm happy to say something elsewhere.
- spdionis 10y agoThat would be a very interesting opinion. Where could this discussion be arranged?
- rdl 10y agoAre there any particularly good books (including fiction) which you've read in the last year or two which you would recommend? (and if so, which?)
- alankay1 10y agoThis is a reasonable question, but it is also the kind of question that led to the list we are discussing (and I'd like to respectfully avoid trying to generate another one).
- ontouchstart 10y agoAlan, I am rereading http://www.amazon.com/Dream-Machine-Licklider-Revolution-Computing/dp/0670899763 http://www.amazon.com/Dream-Machine-Licklider-Revolution-Com... It was published in 2001. What do you think of its relevancy 15 years later in the context of our age of "big data" and "Machine Learning"?
- ontouchstart 10y agoBTW, I did read the book about 10 years ago. Like what Alan commented below, I recognized some of the paragraphs and stories in the book with a kind of dream-like déjà vu. Very interesting feeling.
- alankay1 10y agoI don't think I understand the question. This is by far the best book about how the major research funding and community happened in the 60s (Parc was one of the outgrowths). I would say that our "age" (or any age) could be enriched by understanding this book. For example, the real issues are not "big data" but "big understanding", not "Machine Learning" but "Machine Thinking". Some of the "Dream Machine" is about how the funders were willing to put forth considerable resources for "problem finding" not just "problem solving" -- a lot more of that needs to be done today.
- ontouchstart 10y agoThank you Alan, your answer is the exact reason that I asked that question.