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From my perspective, the training montage in Karate Kid demonstrated that it took a LOT of effort, not the little bit this article criticizes it for. Two month

From my perspective, the training montage in Karate Kid demonstrated that it took a LOT of effort, not the little bit this article criticizes it for. Two months of hard work, from sunrise to sunset, to develop muscle memory? It's not the 10,000 hours required to become a world-class expert, but 600+ hours of intensive training is enough to see some pretty decent results. The other movie he criticizes by name, Rocky, was similar. Rocky had 2 months to train for his first fight, and he wasn't starting from scratch. It's hard to become a world-class expert at anything. You need some combination of latent talent and many thousands of hours of training, hopefully with someone who really understands how to train you effectively. But I don't think either Rocky or the Karate Kid greatly misrepresent the amount of effort it would take for an exceptionally talented individual, with a great trainer, to make the leaps they did.

timwiseman 17y ago
Everything you have said is true, but remember that by compressing that timeframe into the span of one upbeat song it doesn't seem like they spent two months of hard, dedicated training forsaking almost all else. It seems (even though the story is trying to portray something else) that they worked just a little, that it is easily achieved.
- jimbokun 17y ago
  "but remember that by compressing that timeframe into the span of one upbeat song it doesn't seem like they spent two months of hard, dedicated training forsaking almost all else." No, they dramatically sold the effort he put in very well with how pissed off Daniel is about all the time he spent painting, waxing, and polishing, without learning any "real karate." And every time he thought he finished something, Miyagi-san would ask something like "both sides?" and Daniel would drag himself back to work. In other words, they did about as good a job at portraying two months of working hard at something as you could reasonably expect in a two hour movie.
rue 17y ago
> Two months of hard work, from sunrise to sunset, ... Kind of illustrates the writer's point, in my opinion :) I do not really agree with the entire thesis[1], the idea is not novel and the article itself is rather awkward, but there is some truth to the assertion. [1] Should it be that difficult to have a house and a car etc.?
- idoh 17y ago
  Rocky and Karate Kid aren't good examples because both stories are about underdog characters who's will and determination overcome their lack of skill.
  - rue 17y ago
    And the point was that, in real life, will and determination usually do not overcome lack of skill. Sure, we could argue about whether that assertion is correct but these comments demonstrate that at least half of the equation seems to hold.
    - idoh 17y ago
      I agree with your assertion, FWIW. I'm just pointing out that the article incorrectly interpreted Rocky and Karate Kid. The article says that Karate Kid is misleading because it shows people achieving expert skill in two months time. The author is incorrect because Karate Kid (and Rocky) didn't succeed based on their skills, so it's not relevant.
    - torial 17y ago
      How often is "usually"? Is it 20% of the time? 60%? 80%? 90%? Did you see this New Yorker article on how the underdog can win? http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/05/11/090511fa_fact_gladwell http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/05/11/090511fa_fact_... An interesting quote from that article: What happened, Arreguín-Toft wondered, when the underdogs likewise acknowledged their weakness and chose an unconventional strategy? He went back and re-analyzed his data. In those cases, David’s winning percentage went from 28.5 to 63.6. When underdogs choose not to play by Goliath’s rules, they win, Arreguín-Toft concluded, even when everything we think we know about power says they shouldn’t.
chime 17y ago
But the whole point is that two months is NOTHING. I ran 50 miles in an ultramarathon last year and it took me 6 months of pretty intense training (one marathon or longer every weekend in june & july). Even my six months were absolutely nothing compared to the guys who've been running for past 20 years. There is NO way I could have done anything during those six months that could have made me anywhere as good as the pros. So yeah, Karate Kid is indeed not possible.
- sumeetjain 17y ago
  6 months : 50-mile ultramarathon in real life 2 months : Winning a city-wide karate championship in a movie These seem proportional to me.
  - shaddi 17y ago
    I'm not a runner, but I would assume that unless you're already pretty physically fit or have running experience you can't start from scratch and run an ultra-marathon in six months. Full marathon practice sessions weekly for two months! I would reckon being able to recover between those that quickly is a skill developed over years, even if not necessarily from running. FWIW, I think the point was that even if the kid took 2 months of "moive time", the audience perceived that time to be only a few minutes. Two months of solid work is a lot, and I don't think a few minutes of film can do justice to that.
- CWuestefeld 17y ago
  ...or in some cases, that it's not possible at all, regardless of effort. I wanted to be able to play guitar well, but I've come to terms with the fact that I suck. People told me that continued practice would make me better. And maybe it would, to a certain degree. But no matter how much I practice, I'll never be able to play like Jimi Hendrix, because he had a very long finger spread. My hand just can't cover the same range. Similarly, Salieri worked his butt off, just to be shown up by the upstart Mozart. It's not fair, but some people really are better than others at certain things.
  - 17y ago
jimbokun 17y ago
There's a similar scene in the basketball manga Slam Dunk, where the coach takes a kid who has never played basketball in his life but can jump out of the gym, and has him make 10,000 jump shots while the rest of the team is away at a tournament. In his first game after that training, he promptly shoots the ball the first time it is passed to him, and misses everything. After watching Karate Kid recently, and having read the Slam Dunk series in Japan many years ago, I was thinking that Sakaragi-kun is the Bizarro Karate Kid.
donaldc 17y ago
But I don't think either Rocky or the Karate Kid greatly misrepresent the amount of effort it would take for an exceptionally talented individual, with a great trainer, to make the leaps they did. The studies on experts found that even those who seemed at first glance to be exceptionally talented still had needed to put in at least 10,000 hours to become an expert. There do not appear to be any shortcuts.
- runT1ME 17y ago
  Winning a small town karate tournament does not make you an expert or world class.

timwiseman 17y ago

Everything you have said is true, but remember that by compressing that timeframe into the span of one upbeat song it doesn't seem like they spent two months of hard, dedicated training forsaking almost all else. It seems (even though the story is trying to portray something else) that they worked just a little, that it is easily achieved.

jimbokun 17y ago
"but remember that by compressing that timeframe into the span of one upbeat song it doesn't seem like they spent two months of hard, dedicated training forsaking almost all else." No, they dramatically sold the effort he put in very well with how pissed off Daniel is about all the time he spent painting, waxing, and polishing, without learning any "real karate." And every time he thought he finished something, Miyagi-san would ask something like "both sides?" and Daniel would drag himself back to work. In other words, they did about as good a job at portraying two months of working hard at something as you could reasonably expect in a two hour movie.

rue 17y ago

> Two months of hard work, from sunrise to sunset, ... Kind of illustrates the writer's point, in my opinion :) I do not really agree with the entire thesis[1], the idea is not novel and the article itself is rather awkward, but there is some truth to the assertion. [1] Should it be that difficult to have a house and a car etc.?

idoh 17y ago
Rocky and Karate Kid aren't good examples because both stories are about underdog characters who's will and determination overcome their lack of skill.
- rue 17y ago
  And the point was that, in real life, will and determination usually do not overcome lack of skill. Sure, we could argue about whether that assertion is correct but these comments demonstrate that at least half of the equation seems to hold.
  - idoh 17y ago
    I agree with your assertion, FWIW. I'm just pointing out that the article incorrectly interpreted Rocky and Karate Kid. The article says that Karate Kid is misleading because it shows people achieving expert skill in two months time. The author is incorrect because Karate Kid (and Rocky) didn't succeed based on their skills, so it's not relevant.
  - torial 17y ago
    How often is "usually"? Is it 20% of the time? 60%? 80%? 90%? Did you see this New Yorker article on how the underdog can win? http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/05/11/090511fa_fact_gladwell http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/05/11/090511fa_fact_... An interesting quote from that article: What happened, Arreguín-Toft wondered, when the underdogs likewise acknowledged their weakness and chose an unconventional strategy? He went back and re-analyzed his data. In those cases, David’s winning percentage went from 28.5 to 63.6. When underdogs choose not to play by Goliath’s rules, they win, Arreguín-Toft concluded, even when everything we think we know about power says they shouldn’t.

chime 17y ago

But the whole point is that two months is NOTHING. I ran 50 miles in an ultramarathon last year and it took me 6 months of pretty intense training (one marathon or longer every weekend in june & july). Even my six months were absolutely nothing compared to the guys who've been running for past 20 years. There is NO way I could have done anything during those six months that could have made me anywhere as good as the pros. So yeah, Karate Kid is indeed not possible.

sumeetjain 17y ago
6 months : 50-mile ultramarathon in real life 2 months : Winning a city-wide karate championship in a movie These seem proportional to me.
- shaddi 17y ago
  I'm not a runner, but I would assume that unless you're already pretty physically fit or have running experience you can't start from scratch and run an ultra-marathon in six months. Full marathon practice sessions weekly for two months! I would reckon being able to recover between those that quickly is a skill developed over years, even if not necessarily from running. FWIW, I think the point was that even if the kid took 2 months of "moive time", the audience perceived that time to be only a few minutes. Two months of solid work is a lot, and I don't think a few minutes of film can do justice to that.
CWuestefeld 17y ago
...or in some cases, that it's not possible at all, regardless of effort. I wanted to be able to play guitar well, but I've come to terms with the fact that I suck. People told me that continued practice would make me better. And maybe it would, to a certain degree. But no matter how much I practice, I'll never be able to play like Jimi Hendrix, because he had a very long finger spread. My hand just can't cover the same range. Similarly, Salieri worked his butt off, just to be shown up by the upstart Mozart. It's not fair, but some people really are better than others at certain things.
- 17y ago

jimbokun 17y ago

There's a similar scene in the basketball manga Slam Dunk, where the coach takes a kid who has never played basketball in his life but can jump out of the gym, and has him make 10,000 jump shots while the rest of the team is away at a tournament. In his first game after that training, he promptly shoots the ball the first time it is passed to him, and misses everything. After watching Karate Kid recently, and having read the Slam Dunk series in Japan many years ago, I was thinking that Sakaragi-kun is the Bizarro Karate Kid.

donaldc 17y ago

But I don't think either Rocky or the Karate Kid greatly misrepresent the amount of effort it would take for an exceptionally talented individual, with a great trainer, to make the leaps they did. The studies on experts found that even those who seemed at first glance to be exceptionally talented still had needed to put in at least 10,000 hours to become an expert. There do not appear to be any shortcuts.

runT1ME 17y ago
Winning a small town karate tournament does not make you an expert or world class.