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I have an Oculus CV1, I had the DK2, and I've been making VR side-projects using their SDK for a couple years now. I'm really disillusioned about Oculus as a pl

by jc4p 10y ago

I have an Oculus CV1, I had the DK2, and I've been making VR side-projects using their SDK for a couple years now. I'm really disillusioned about Oculus as a platform, though. I didn't even consider buying the HTC Vive because I've been riding the Oculus train for a while and had faith in them as the future of VR, but come on. I really wish I could know how Carmack feels about this. Sidenote: for what it's worth, I haven't used my Oculus since the first week I received it. It was supposed to work with glasses (the DK2 does) by shipping with different foam faceplates that can change how far off my face it is (my glasses fit in the Oculus, it's just that the lenses are so close to my eyes that my glasses scratch them) but they silently took that off the "What's in the box" months before shipping.

thearn4 10y ago
> I really wish I could know how Carmack feels about this. That's a really good point - has he spoken at all about the direction of Oculus & HMD VR in general since the Rift was released?
- monk_e_boy 10y ago
  The champion of mods. The champion of being as open as you can (while making money.) He lectures, he helps, he's open and honest. I'm sure he is disappointed in where facebook+rift is heading.
potatolicious 10y ago
Ditto, I was one of the DK1 backers so got the CV1 for free. I haven't used it much past the first week - only to demo to friends and such, really. I have some disillusionment about it also - it seems like Valve VR/Vive is getting a lot more dev support. Having tried the Vive also, I think delaying the Oculus motion controllers was a critical error. It turns out the motion controllers really open up a lot of use cases, whereas a "simple" HMD-only feels particularly limiting in comparison. The Rift is substantially more comfortable than the Vive - the Vive I felt was extremely front-heavy to an extent it actively distracted from the experience. That said, the idea that Oculus Rift "works with glasses" is a statement that's at most 30% true. My glasses are pretty small but while the HMD is on it crams my glasses literally up against my eyeballs - my eyelashes literally brush against the lenses of my glasses while blinking. After using the Rift my glasses are covered with eyelash/eyelid/eyeball(?) smudge marks. It's tremendously annoying. The backing off of the "switchable glasses faceplate" promise is disappointing. And honestly, there just isn't much content. Most of the content are tech demos. Lucky's Tale is a really interesting vindication of the idea that platformers can work in VR - but it's also just not very compelling by itself. Ditto Eve Valkyrie - the technology is tremendous and you can't help but get that "Battlestar Galactica come to life" glee when you first launch in your fighter... But the gameplay is just not varied or deep enough to hold you for longer than a couple of hours. Between the discomfort of the HMD and the lack of content, there just isn't much motivation to dive back in.
- jzelinskie 10y ago
  I don't think I could've put this any better myself; I'm also a DK1 backer that got CV1 for free. Most of my friends who did the same sold their CV1 when the hype was high for a profit and went on to purchase the Vive. I live in an NYC apartment, so I don't really have the room to spare for the Vive, but prior to the free CV1 announcement, I planned to purchase a Vive. After experiencing DK1, you really got a good idea of what VR at that price point was capable of. Sure, the resolution and comfort will improve slightly, but it was a good calibration of expectations for the market. I just hope there comes more and more interesting software to actually drive the industry, because currently it's looking like another 90s VR cycle.
- arielweisberg 10y ago
  I think Eve Valkyrie might actually have a lot more depth, but it's hidden behind a progression system. You can pay cash money to bypass at least some of the pain of the progression system which is kind of insane considering it's a for pay game, but this has been the accepted standard in COD and Battlefield for years. At least those don't mock you by offering a pay to win (or more charitably pay to progress) option. Certainly they could have done a lot more and given you more systems to interact with both inside and outside your ship. I agree the software situation is dire. I tried VorpX with Aliens Isolation and there is just no comparison with other VR titles I have tried. I admit that doesn't include Chronos or The Climb which I have trouble spending the coin on for fear they are overrated tech demos instead of true AAA experiences.
- cma 10y ago
  I also got CV1 for free from being a Kickstarter. Having a Vive, the Oculus CV1 is just a paperweight right now. Even when Touch finally comes out, it has been under so much secrecy and so many NDAs that I'm thinking it might have significant issues.
  - lux 10y ago
    Not sure how much I'm allowed to say, but I've been working with both controllers for a while and honestly really prefer Touch over Vive's controllers. They have way more expressiveness, which means we're often running into things we want to do with Touch that don't easily translate to Vive's trigger/squeeze/thumb combo. A basic example, you can do rock paper scissors with Touch. Not perfectly since you still have a controller in your hand, but it totally works. It's a huge plus for Vive that it has motion controllers on launch, but if Touch comes out by end of 2016, half a year's difference isn't much time in the grand scheme of VR and I bet most of the Vive exclusives will be cross-platform then too.
shazow 10y ago
> I really wish I could know how Carmack feels about this. My impression is that Carmack is working on GearVR-related stuff in isolation from the rest of the Oculus/Facebook bureaucracy from the comfort of Dallas, TX. Hard to tell, but I'm not convinced he's even aware (or cares) about what's going on with Oculus in general: https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/733761224098242560 https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/733761224098242560
- cma 10y ago
  I'm pretty sure there is a Chinese firewall in place for legal reasons due to the Zenimax lawsuits and him likely having a non-compete that only applied to desktop games and left mobile free.
- bitmapbrother 10y ago
  Carmack is the CTO of Oculus. I'm sure he's involved in a lot more than just a side project like the GearVR.
  - zanny 10y ago
    He was cofounder of id, and had high ranking office until he left in 2013, but still was spending a lot of the 00s building Armadillo Aerospace instead.
- Snowdax 10y ago
  Carmack tends to not particularly care what the business side are up to. He wants to focus on pushing the tech forward and not get bogged down with the office politics or PR spinning beyond what he's forced to do. Hence John Romero... Carmack is more of a Woz type character, hence why there is great respect for him in the industry. Many a developer merely dreams of being let loose on the tech and not have to deal with any of the "bullshit".
agmcleod 10y ago
I have the DK2, doesn't work with my glasses :(. Admittedly i didn't try with a CV unit I got to check out, but my brother did and it worked for him. Might just vary depending on frames.

by jc4p 10y ago

thearn4 10y ago

> I really wish I could know how Carmack feels about this. That's a really good point - has he spoken at all about the direction of Oculus & HMD VR in general since the Rift was released?

monk_e_boy 10y ago
The champion of mods. The champion of being as open as you can (while making money.) He lectures, he helps, he's open and honest. I'm sure he is disappointed in where facebook+rift is heading.

potatolicious 10y ago

Ditto, I was one of the DK1 backers so got the CV1 for free. I haven't used it much past the first week - only to demo to friends and such, really. I have some disillusionment about it also - it seems like Valve VR/Vive is getting a lot more dev support. Having tried the Vive also, I think delaying the Oculus motion controllers was a critical error. It turns out the motion controllers really open up a lot of use cases, whereas a "simple" HMD-only feels particularly limiting in comparison. The Rift is substantially more comfortable than the Vive - the Vive I felt was extremely front-heavy to an extent it actively distracted from the experience. That said, the idea that Oculus Rift "works with glasses" is a statement that's at most 30% true. My glasses are pretty small but while the HMD is on it crams my glasses literally up against my eyeballs - my eyelashes literally brush against the lenses of my glasses while blinking. After using the Rift my glasses are covered with eyelash/eyelid/eyeball(?) smudge marks. It's tremendously annoying. The backing off of the "switchable glasses faceplate" promise is disappointing. And honestly, there just isn't much content. Most of the content are tech demos. Lucky's Tale is a really interesting vindication of the idea that platformers can work in VR - but it's also just not very compelling by itself. Ditto Eve Valkyrie - the technology is tremendous and you can't help but get that "Battlestar Galactica come to life" glee when you first launch in your fighter... But the gameplay is just not varied or deep enough to hold you for longer than a couple of hours. Between the discomfort of the HMD and the lack of content, there just isn't much motivation to dive back in.

jzelinskie 10y ago
I don't think I could've put this any better myself; I'm also a DK1 backer that got CV1 for free. Most of my friends who did the same sold their CV1 when the hype was high for a profit and went on to purchase the Vive. I live in an NYC apartment, so I don't really have the room to spare for the Vive, but prior to the free CV1 announcement, I planned to purchase a Vive. After experiencing DK1, you really got a good idea of what VR at that price point was capable of. Sure, the resolution and comfort will improve slightly, but it was a good calibration of expectations for the market. I just hope there comes more and more interesting software to actually drive the industry, because currently it's looking like another 90s VR cycle.
arielweisberg 10y ago
I think Eve Valkyrie might actually have a lot more depth, but it's hidden behind a progression system. You can pay cash money to bypass at least some of the pain of the progression system which is kind of insane considering it's a for pay game, but this has been the accepted standard in COD and Battlefield for years. At least those don't mock you by offering a pay to win (or more charitably pay to progress) option. Certainly they could have done a lot more and given you more systems to interact with both inside and outside your ship. I agree the software situation is dire. I tried VorpX with Aliens Isolation and there is just no comparison with other VR titles I have tried. I admit that doesn't include Chronos or The Climb which I have trouble spending the coin on for fear they are overrated tech demos instead of true AAA experiences.
cma 10y ago
I also got CV1 for free from being a Kickstarter. Having a Vive, the Oculus CV1 is just a paperweight right now. Even when Touch finally comes out, it has been under so much secrecy and so many NDAs that I'm thinking it might have significant issues.
- lux 10y ago
  Not sure how much I'm allowed to say, but I've been working with both controllers for a while and honestly really prefer Touch over Vive's controllers. They have way more expressiveness, which means we're often running into things we want to do with Touch that don't easily translate to Vive's trigger/squeeze/thumb combo. A basic example, you can do rock paper scissors with Touch. Not perfectly since you still have a controller in your hand, but it totally works. It's a huge plus for Vive that it has motion controllers on launch, but if Touch comes out by end of 2016, half a year's difference isn't much time in the grand scheme of VR and I bet most of the Vive exclusives will be cross-platform then too.

shazow 10y ago

> I really wish I could know how Carmack feels about this. My impression is that Carmack is working on GearVR-related stuff in isolation from the rest of the Oculus/Facebook bureaucracy from the comfort of Dallas, TX. Hard to tell, but I'm not convinced he's even aware (or cares) about what's going on with Oculus in general: https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/733761224098242560 https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/733761224098242560

cma 10y ago
I'm pretty sure there is a Chinese firewall in place for legal reasons due to the Zenimax lawsuits and him likely having a non-compete that only applied to desktop games and left mobile free.
bitmapbrother 10y ago
Carmack is the CTO of Oculus. I'm sure he's involved in a lot more than just a side project like the GearVR.
- zanny 10y ago
  He was cofounder of id, and had high ranking office until he left in 2013, but still was spending a lot of the 00s building Armadillo Aerospace instead.
Snowdax 10y ago
Carmack tends to not particularly care what the business side are up to. He wants to focus on pushing the tech forward and not get bogged down with the office politics or PR spinning beyond what he's forced to do. Hence John Romero... Carmack is more of a Woz type character, hence why there is great respect for him in the industry. Many a developer merely dreams of being let loose on the tech and not have to deal with any of the "bullshit".

agmcleod 10y ago

I have the DK2, doesn't work with my glasses :(. Admittedly i didn't try with a CV unit I got to check out, but my brother did and it worked for him. Might just vary depending on frames.