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Pre-sale of Cyborg implant for sensing North
- Aelinsaar 10y agoThis seems... incredibly silly. Not crazy or wrong, just silly. This feels like a child walking out of a movie theater like a cowboy, because they just saw a western. I don't want an implant to achieve something I can manage with a needle and a bowl of water.
- seren 10y agoMaybe if you are blind, this could be helpful to not get lost and get a sense of the direction you are facing. But I guess there are already less invasive solutions (and other sensory inputs like the sun on your skin).
- Aelinsaar 10y agoOr just a wearable device, but I guess that has drawbacks too.
- draugadrotten 10y agoThis "implant" is pretty much a wearable device since it is in contact with skin but is fully outside the body.
- blisterpeanuts 10y agoUsually wearables refer to things you can easily take off, like a watch. This thing looks pretty permanent -- though maybe it flips open like an earring to be removed and serviced?
- bjterry 10y agoThe barbell piercing that it anchors to is permanent, but I think the device itself has to be removed to charge.
- nradov 10y agoYou can get a cheap wristwatch that has an integrated digital compass, or a tiny analog compass embedded in the strap.
- jgrahamc 10y agoOr just get a Braille compass.
- michielr 10y agoThis is not about the compass per se, it's about adding an extra sense. The article that made me interested in these kind of things was in Wired about 10 years ago: http://www.wired.com/2007/04/esp/ http://www.wired.com/2007/04/esp/ . Well worth the read in my opinion.
- rdiddly 10y agoSort of, except that it gets translated into touch, one of the same old five.
- d--b 10y agoTotally agree. They want to `design the future` and the first thing they do is to make a device that was rendered obsolete 10 years ago... What next? a device that makes you sense time? or something that makes you feel that someone's trying to reach you?
- nutheracc 10y agoThis is hands-free.
- gearhart 10y agoThere is a difference between having something permanently giving you feedback, and being able to get some information on demand. It's easy to conceive that being quietly reminded of which direction you're travelling every time you turn a corner could change the way you see the world. On the other hand, it does seem to be a pretty rubbish implementation. A dongle that you have to anchor to your chest with piercings, and whose idea of "really, really small" is an inch square seems significantly behind where I believed implant technology was. I might be tempted to try this if it was a tiny, surgically implanted chip that had no other effects, but having some huge trinket dangling off my chest getting stuck in things seems like it would only be attractive to people who wanted something to act as a replacement for an interesting personality in conversation.
- Aelinsaar 10y agoOr an ear piercing, something integrated into an existing "mod".
- mattmanser 10y agoI'm not a fanboy, but you've missed the point entirely. It's not the same thing at all. It's about being able to sense north all the time. Not getting a compass out, or your silly solution of a bowl of water and a needle. About just knowing which direction north is. There's been (well received) articles here before about people wearing haptic belts that did the same thing. Here's an example: https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21028185-800-haptic-soldiers-guided-by-buzzing-belt/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21028185-800-haptic-s...
- Aelinsaar 10y agoAlright, I can see the appeal for hikers and long walkers, urban explorers, and a whole subset of hobbyists that I didn't appreciate before. Thanks for the interesting read, and the context.
- NKCSS 10y agoBut it doesn't do that, it just alerts you when you face north.... the rest of the time, you'll have no idea if your east, south or west... I would assume you'd have an always-present general force towards the North to make sure you always know your orientation; this is not like that; it just alerts you whenever you happen to face North.
- veli_joza 10y agoYeah, but when you are getting hints about direction of North while moving around, you'll subconsciously be aware of orientation all the time. Your spatial orientation would improve dramatically. For me this looks too bulky and inconvenient to actually use.
- whamlastxmas 10y agoThis is my understanding as well. There are tribal groups of people even today whose communication depends largely on cardinal directions. They don't use the concept of left or right, they use a cardinal direction. As a result, they are always aware of which direction they are facing. This implant would be essentially training you to do the same, and possibly wouldn't even be needed eventually.
- tomp 10y agoAmazing (from the Who we are section): > NEIL HARBISSON > Cyborg artist with an internet enabled antenna implanted in his skull that allows him to perceive colours beyond the visual spectrum and connect to satellites to sense colours from space.
- puzzlingcaptcha 10y agoIt is quite bizzare http://static1.squarespace.com/static/55227abee4b04cf2fe2b34b8/t/56294068e4b0e3e837e3b525/1445544041948/neil-harbisson-featured.jpg http://static1.squarespace.com/static/55227abee4b04cf2fe2b34...
- tlrobinson 10y agoInteresting, but ridiculously goofy looking. You'd think glasses would be a better form factor to hold the sensor.
- rdiddly 10y agoUnless your goal is ostentation.
- goda90 10y agoSo this only vibrates when it faces north. I wonder if that is more or less useful/comfortable/noticeable than the belts[0] or anklets[1] that always have a vibration in the direction of north. [0]http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-a-Tactile-Feedback-Compass-Belt/ http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-a-Tactile-Feedba... [1]https://sensebridge.net/projects/northpaw/ https://sensebridge.net/projects/northpaw/
- maaaats 10y agoYeah, was hoping it actually would connect to something and give of different sensations based on direction, which in time the body/mind might recognize. This seemed more like an art-experiment than something cool.
- lmm 10y agoAIUI people who wore the anklet version found they quickly ceased being conscious of the vibrations per se, and just had a sense of which way was north. ISTR people learn to see via a camera connected to a pad of electrodes on their tongue. The brain is pretty good at adapting to sensory input, it doesn't have to be wired directly to your nerves or anything.
- avian 10y agoYears back I wore the Northpaw anklet for a few weeks. I found that it was certainly possible to determine north with it, but never got from feeling vibrations to some "sense of which was is north". In fact, I found that it sometimes took a bit of turning around to get a feel of the direction. I did not find it a very helpful tool for navigation. In my experience I orient myself by landmarks and constantly knowing exactly which way is north was not that useful, even when walking in nature. I did not try it in a completely unknown place though. Perhaps the most interesting part was how it corrected the intuitive picture of how my home city is oriented - the anklet clearly showed that streets that I always associated with straight north-south and east-west lines were curved and not so perfectly aligned.
- CJefferson 10y agoI find the compasses in most phones seem almost useless, as they are confused by themselves, and other electronic devices which are nearby. Will this be any more accurate? I would choose a phone specially for a better compass, as I often find google maps less useful in cities until I figure out which direction is north.
- tgb 10y agoI've used expensive ($1-2 thousand USD) compasses that work really quite well, particularly if you don't suddenly spin around. So the tech exists, at least if you ignore power and size restrictions and up the price range a little. I imagine cellphones don't bother to get a good compass. External metals are always a problem, though. You can incorporate accelerometer data which kinda helps to protect against quick transients.
- jessaustin 10y agoA modicum of awareness suffices to keep anyone informed of the cardinal directions, in most situations not involving subway travel. This is more about "Cyborg" than "North".
- rincebrain 10y agoWhile this is trivial for some people, it is extremely difficult to infeasible for others. Taking advantage of people's passive integration of sensory input into their perception of the world around them seems like a reasonable aid for people who have difficulty with things of this nature.
- mark_chosenberg 10y agoYou people, some SV quacks could come up with a device that sends you a tweet when you need to take a shit and you'd still be telling me how it's making the world a better place.
- maxerickson 10y agoSome people do end up with nerve damage that impairs their ability to know when they need to empty their bowels. What you describe may indeed be useful for them.
- falcolas 10y agoI was in New York a short time ago, and though I was outside, in daylight, I had absolutely no sense of direction. I came out of the wrong exit from Grand Central, and had to pull out my phone's compass (after reviewing the map) just to get a sense of which direction I had to go. It's still very easy to lose your sense of direction in unfamiliar territory, even when you're paying attention.
- DblPlusUngood 10y agoI would be much more excited about contraptions that were more obviously useful and less about providing a special "experience".
- aavotins 10y agoAs bizarre as it may look, it's still a small step towards something. Internet-of-Things(buzzword), smart appliances - it's already entering our lives in some fashion. And so will cybernetics. There has to be trendsetters that start with simple things. First car wasn't exactly a modern day Tesla, first airplane did not have peanuts served by beautiful young ladies, first implants and steps towards cybernetics may seem foolish and toy like, but who knows where it will lead us in 10 years
- nathanvanfleet 10y agoBut it... is just a few piercings and is held on top of your skin?
- mcphage 10y agoYes.
- nxzero 10y agoTelepathy is already possible.
- blisterpeanuts 10y agoIt seems as though wearables like watches can already incorporate directional sensors and pretty much anything else that one might imagine. This product isn't really an implant. A "pierceable", perhaps. My guess is, this gadget is probably going to appeal mainly to the techno body modification crowd. In other words, a rather limited market, for now. Medical applications are where implants will eventually shine: glucose level monitors for diabetics, for example.
- LiviuBabitz 10y agoHi there, Liviu from Cyborg Nest. Thnx for this! Yes, this is not a full implant, because at this stage we saw the mind change as the important thing and less the body change. This is somehow still a limited market in general, we do hope to do the best and try to bring technology integration into the mainstream, the world is ready. Here for anything else, Cheers!
- patternmaster 10y agoHi Liviu,How does the implant communicate with the user's mind?For example, does it vibrate like a smartphone?Thanks,Oren
- thinkt4nk 10y agoDoes anyone else think the device looks extremely large for the application?
- epalmer 10y agoYes. I will let others play with such technology. I feel too connected already. I don't really want to wire myself up more. Maybe I'm old fashion. I will be interested in what others say about their experiences with such devices.
- realworldview 10y agoPlease, save us from the cyborgs. I can think of 999999 things deserving more attention than this. But wait! I want divining rods implanted in my forearms! I can see the benefits already.
- roosterjm2k2 10y agoTheir about section looks... well, they just look like some real interesting people, I tell you hwhat...
- LiviuBabitz 10y agoThnx, pleasure meeting you, I'm Liviu from Cyborg Nest. We are a bunch of very dedicated people to this!
- LiviuBabitz 10y agoThnx, pleasure meeting you, I'm Liviu from Cyborg Nest. We are a bunch of very dedicated people to this!
- witty_username 10y agoWhy not just use your smartphone? Or even just look at which direction the sun is.
- roel_v 10y agoLooks like I'm the only one, but I think this is pretty nifty. Then again I had someone cut open my hand to shove in an rfid chip 10 years ago, which wasn't everybody's cup of tea either. What I'm most worried about is battery life. If I have to recharge every week (or more), I would give up after a few weeks. Also, what risk is there snagging this thing on your shirt when you get dressed, or crushing it under a barbell when working out? Doing any sort of fighting sport would be impossible too I guess, even if you could take the actual sensor/vibrating thing out.
- falcolas 10y agoThe battery situation worries me too. Then again, I've been OK with taking off a phone/watch and putting it on a charger on a regular basis for a few years now, so one more item wouldn't be a huge burden.
- na85 10y agoAre you Lopht Anonym or however it's spelled?
- seanp2k2 10y agoBBC documentary on Lepht Anonym http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/item/8ca601f1-2d4f-412a-8c94-ad0b3497ac4e http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/item/8ca601f1-2d4f-412a-8c94-a...
- roel_v 10y agoOh no, I'm not that deep into it. I wasn't even of the first wave of rfid implanters (now that I think about it, it wasn't 10 years ago, more 6 or 7).
- logfromblammo 10y agoIf I'm ever going to have permanent implants, it's going to need to generate electricity from my blood. http://news.mit.edu/2012/glucose-fuel-cell-0612 http://news.mit.edu/2012/glucose-fuel-cell-0612 Many bonus points if the implant's power cell can mimic actual exercise.
- joshvm 10y agoA related story a while ago about magnetic implants - people have had magnets put in their fingers for a while now: http://gizmodo.com/5895555/i-have-a-magnet-implant-in-my-finger http://gizmodo.com/5895555/i-have-a-magnet-implant-in-my-fin...
- ape4 10y agoShould be called "compAss" and you implant it in your buttocks.
- zxexz 10y agoI see no implementation details. How do I know the accuracy of the compass? It would suck to be passively sent directional information that was even slightly off. What if I don't calibrate it for a few weeks? What happens if I'm not standing straight, instead laying down? Does it go off randomly? Also, I don't see how this qualifies as an implant? In their defense, I can't obviously see anywhere they call it such; the title is just wrong here. It's just a device that sits on top of a couple barbell piercings and vibrates. To be honest, I'm far from impressed. The seemingly new-age-hocus-pocus-spirituality bullshit branding and wording doesn't help either. For 250 quid why not get a watch that provides wrist-facing haptic feedback, maybe attach it via bluetooth to a digital compass?
- CaptSpify 10y agoTo me, it seems more like a product that's "testing the waters". I agree it's not actually that impressive, or even an implant, but it's softly treading on politically/ethically dangerous grounds. Most of the "upgrades" we've seen so far are for people who have had accidents/damage. This is the first "optional" off-the-shelf product that I know of. > I see no implementation details I am excited that we're moving this direction in our society, but I strongly think this is where we need open-source hardware and software. I really don't like the idea of giving control of my physical self to a company, even for something as silly as telling me where north is.
- zxexz 10y agoI don't really see how this is treading politically/ethically dangerous grounds, definitely not like those magnetic finger implants people have been getting for a few years[0] (I would also say that those are probably one of the first 'off the shelf' upgrades). Totally agree with you about the need for open-source hardware and software, especially for devices that become part of our selves! That's one of the many reasons this device bugs me. [0] http://www.wired.com/2006/06/a-sixth-sense-for-a-wired-world/ http://www.wired.com/2006/06/a-sixth-sense-for-a-wired-world...
- CaptSpify 10y ago
- lucb1e 10y agoI read about someone who wore a belt with a bunch of vibration motors, where the one that pointed north would vibrate. Lots more space for battery life and accuracy. From what I heard he developed an extremely good sense of direction in a very short time. Doesn't need to be an implant!
- LiviuBabitz 10y agoHi, there, I'm Liviu, part of Cyborg Nest, thnx for the time guys, happy to answer any question!
- mathgeek 10y agoI'm really struggling to see why you'd want to install this in your body rather than just having it on your person. Is vibration really enhanced by implanting it? Also, this won't be you "closer to nature" because humans are not naturally attuned to physically know when we are facing north. Perhaps more importantly, how annoying would this be if every time you rolled over at night, you faced true north and got a nice vibration to wake you up.
- pklausler 10y agoI disagree. I almost always know where north is. Just pay a little attention to shadows.
- mathgeek 10y agoThat's essentially my point. It's learned rather than instinctual. You were taught to do that.
- fao_ 10y agoI think it's more of a convenience thing, to be honest. We're not attuned to be able to see where we're going via sonar, sense magnetic fields, etc. On the other hand, we're great at learning, and at adapting to when a sense is lost or added. And the vibration really won't be that significant, it only has to be enough to get some feedback from it.
- nogridbag 10y agoI can only imagine what it would be like trying to explain this implant to the nice folks at the airport security checkpoints!
- secfirstmd 10y agoI know that Liviu Babitz the founder of CyborgNest is on HN now. He should be answering your questions soon! https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=LiviuBabitz https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=LiviuBabitz
- LiviuBabitz 10y agoHi, This is Liviu, Cyborg Nest Co-Founder, I'm here for any question, thnx for the time, love the chat. Liviu
- kordless 10y agoLet me just be the first to say that I'm not stuffing anything in my body that was created by someone who's identity isn't firmly nailed down. I'm not against anonymity by any means, but infrastructure needs to be 99.999% trustworthy and transparent. > Liviu was the COO of Videre est Credere, featured in the WIRED as 'Carlos', due to security restrictions at the time the article was published.
- maxerickson 10y agoThey are getting dinged by some sort of new account filter. People with showdead on should watch for comments to vouch for.
- pklausler 10y agoMight be handy if it's cloudy, but otherwise it's easier to look at shadows in daytime and the moon and stars at night.
- fimdomeio 10y agoDon't people know most of the time to what direction is north? you just look at the sun imagine it's trajectory and you have enough information for 90% of the use cases. Or stars...
- glibgil 10y agoWhen I saw the video and the team photos all I could think of is, "Turtley werth it" http://www.cc.com/video-clips/4ei34y/kroll-show-rich-dicks---the-nameless http://www.cc.com/video-clips/4ei34y/kroll-show-rich-dicks--...
- MrBra 10y ago> With North Sense, you’re given back an ancient sense of direction Please go watch "The Embrace of the Serpent" right now.
- sgnelson 10y agoIt should be mentioned that there are multiple "norths." And while it's generally not a big deal for most uses, if you feel that you need a compass so bad that you have to implant it into yourself, you probably want the most accurate system that you can have. I don't see anything about this on their website. Such as how do you set Magnetic declination? (My guess, you don't). The earth's magnetic filed is an incredibly complex system. I know this is more about the "implantability" rather than the compass, but still, something to keep in mind. For more information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_declination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_declination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth's_magnetic_field https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth's_magnetic_field