14 ms·

Racial Fault Lines in Silicon Valley

226 points by bdr 10y ago

JustSomeNobody 10y ago
Anyone giving interviews should completely understand that there are questions that you're not allowed to ask. Technology is now hip and cool so we break the rules is no excuse for being ignorant of how to treat another human being.
mathattack 10y ago
Courageous post!
- deleted 10y ago
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buckbova 10y ago
> “Why do all the Black kids sit at the same table at school?” ... “Why is it no longer okay to say nr?" WTF. Offensive or not these questions are plain dumb. He must have been trying to illicit a reaction from Makinde. Reminds me of the SNL skit where Richard Pryor is being interviewed by Chevy Chase doing word associations. https://vimeo.com/117983862 https://vimeo.com/117983862
- not_that_noob 10y ago
  My sense is that he was making sure that Makinde wouldn't be too politically assertive about race issues. Borderline illegal most likely, apart from being exceedingly and odiously offensive.
  - tetrep 10y ago
    > ...he was making sure that Makinde wouldn't be too politically assertive about race issues. I think that gives him far too much credit. It's no different than if you asked someone "Why is it offensive if I grope you, hit on you, and imply that sexual favors will advance your career?" It smacks of complete obliviousness to social issues at best, which would make the interviewer extremely unqualified to screen interview candidates for anything other than pure technical qualifications. Which, in this instance, they were obviously conducting an at least partially non-technical interview. My suspicion is it's an aggressive move, to make sure that the racially insensitive and/or offensive status quo can be maintained with the interviewer betting heavily that their actions would not be called out post-hoc and that any candidate who was offended would walk away quietly. The people creating such a climate can claim an attempt at stimulating diversity, but that their job offers are turned down. It's unfortunate that we don't know who did this nor does it appear that their company was contacted/informed about the inappropriate behavior of one of their employees.
  - deleted 10y ago
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  - stcredzero 10y ago
    My sense is that he was making sure that Makinde wouldn't be too politically assertive about race issues. Strange. My sense is that the interviewer was fishing to see if he would be politically assertive enough.
  - IOT_Apprentice 10y ago
    Assertive when asking a black man why he can't use the word nigger to his face? Politically assertive or meek and subservient to this asshole?
  - slackstation 10y ago
    > ...he was making sure that Makinde wouldn't be too politically assertive about race issues. Well, if he were truely politically assertive, he would answer smoothly and to the interviewers full satisfaction, take the job, wear a microphone and follow up on the interview questions on tape and then sue the everliving shit out of the company. It's strategically stupid in addition to being an asshole move. The only people who really suffer are the ones that you actually want; reasonable, smart developers with options will wisely avoid this company like the plague. The risk that your manager will continue to act this way or that they will have a deep-seeded bias against black people is high. The chance that they are merely good-intentioned but, inarticulate and socially awkward are low. Even in that best case scenario, those are terrible qualities to have in a manager.
  - cloudjacker 10y ago
    Well, not illegal as he wasn't an employee AND he got an offer from the company So there is no claim to make. If he was an employee or didn't get an offer he could get the EEOC to strongarm the company into an OK settlement. Otherwise without a federal agency bankrolling the strongarming, there is no way to make something like an emotional distress claim in state court especially with the lack of proof.
- ww520 10y ago
  It sounds like a power play. Interview is already a unbalanced power situation. Using race to try to put someone in their place is fucked up on so many levels.
  - prawn 10y ago
    I imagine it was the interviewer trying to be upfront and casual about it, but coming across as very awkward instead especially given that they were his opening questions in a professional setting!
  - tootie 10y ago
    Sounds more like the guy was mildly autistic. Saying that out loud just opens you up to public ridicule and scorn.
- joshrotenberg 10y ago
  Yeah, I had to read that a few times to see if I missed something ... not that I can think of anything that would have made it a less shocking that someone would walk into a room to interview someone and ask questions like that.
- deleted 10y ago
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- LordKano 10y ago
  I have stepped away from development for the time being but as a black man in the industry, when I read that, I already knew what my answers would have been. He was probably a lot more diplomatic than I would have been.
sbilstein 10y ago
I wish it would be safe for those to out their offenders...I really wonder which CEO would think to ask such a ridiculous and offensive question.
- Shivetya 10y ago
  Nah, there is little reason to out an offender if there are no witnesses. Then it becomes another he said/he said type mess and nothing gets fixed. We have nothing in the story to determine race, background, or such, of the person asking the question other than to imply they should have known better. Well some accomplished people truly don't or worse they are beyond reach. There are some who act out of anger having experienced a bad situation and apply the reaction to all subsequent meetings with similar. Sadly the word is bandied about in some crowds including highly technical groups and sadly bad members of the group normally slighted with the word. tl;dr ignorance exists at all levels of society but going after it requires an abundance of proof and sometimes its best to use said occurrences to educate instead of persecute
- ps4fanboy 10y ago
  Sounds like a great way to get hit with a libel case.
hnamazon123 10y ago
> We should talk about this some more. Just be ready — you might find out a lot more than you bargained for. Obviously Makinde's experience with the CEO is outrageous and abhorrent but race-related issues go very much beyond his personal negative experiences. This is usually a one-sided discussion and therefore disingenuous to frame this as a discussion. Any sort of questioning of a PoC talking about their experiences or their opinions on race is social suicide. The incessant focus on identity politics and oppression olympics is extremely cancerous and antithetical to the fundamental ethos of a civic nation-state such as America.
- dandelany 10y ago
  Based on the fact that you don't want to talk about it, I'm guessing this is not an issue that you have to deal with personally. "The incessant focus on identity politics and oppression olympics is extremely cancerous" Yes, instead of dealing with race-related issues, which you admit exist, let's just tell the people who suffer that their POV is cancerous and they should shut up. That should fix things. -_-
  - fsaneq2 10y ago
    I don't think that's what he's trying to say. He's probably referring to the fact that unless you're black/poc/whatever you're not allowed to have an opinion; it's the blacks/pocs/whatevers that are making him shut up, not the other way around.
    - st3v3r 10y ago
      Well, unless you've actually experienced those things, your opinion really isn't valid.
      - hnamazon123 10y ago
        And yet everyone must live in a society subject to policies that are enacted as response to racism or supposed racism. To suggest that people should be absolutely silent and not contribute to the discourse that leads to policies that affect their lives is morally abhorrent. Ask them to weight their opinions, sure but telling them to shut up is absurd.
vowelless 10y ago
That was a really ridiculous question to ask. I'm brown and if someone asked me about middle eastern politics during an interview or worse made some low quality comment, I would promotly get up and leave. I don't have the patience for that in a professional setting. On a separate note > /dev/color is a community of black software engineers who help one another reach career goals. To learn more, check out our website and follow our blog & twitter account. Then why not call it /dev/black? I find it confusing. Does "color" imply black? I have been called a "person of color" before, due to my brown skin and middle eastern features.
- killa_kyle 10y ago
  color is any ethnicity that's not "white". In the U.S. it's mostly used to refer to black people, but Asians, Hispanics, etc are also considered "colored"
  - mineshaftgap 10y ago
    Asians are considered white because they value education
  - thaumasiotes 10y ago
    Asians are frequently vilified as "lily-white". ;)
  - rat87 10y ago
    In the US colored is an offensive term for black people. People of Color is a term to describe non-white minorities, popular among left wing, especially left wing minority activists.
    - jonathankoren 10y ago
      It's not offensive, but it is archaic. It makes you sound like you grew up in the 1950s.
      - 10y ago
sremani 10y ago
>>>Ask If It’s Okay. You might have follow-up questions or a thought to add. Don’t assume I’m ready to, or want to, have a deep conversation about the issue right then and there. If I’m not ready, be okay with that. What seems like a simple question for you, might have a deep, complicated response in my mind <<< This is exact reason people do not want to go through, talking about race for many it is like walking on egg shells. Who wants to really do it? Not only people do not want to feel rejected, but also not be dragged into a drama or creating more drama.
- kingkawn 10y ago
  If you try it will get easier quickly. What is a fearful burden to many becomes a place of ease for you, and a whole new population of people is suddenly available to speak to, like learning a new language.
- sangnoir 10y ago
  Let me recontextualize your statement > This is exact reason people do not want to go through, talking about getting a raise for many it is like walking on egg shells. Who wants to really do it? Not only people do not want to feel rejected, but also not be dragged into a drama or creating more drama If you're underpaid, you probably want to walk on those egg-shells ;). If everyone stayed in their comfort-zone, we'd all suffer from a sub-optimal status quo
- AndrewKemendo 10y ago
  Just don't ask. Curious about how race impacts someone's life? Spend time with them. It will become very obvious without you having to ask anything and you'll get the benefit of being able to empathize from seeing it first hand. Or, if you want to really try hard - work against your biological instinct to segment people into buckets based on physical attributes. Get to know who they see themselves as rather than how you see them by finding out what is important to them. Here is an easy start: Instead of asking "where are you from" a simple and innocuous question which reveals basically nothing about someone - ask "what kind of hobbies are you into?"
  - 10y ago
tux1968 10y ago
Trying to imagine a case where this CEO is just inappropriate rather than mean spirited. The only idea that comes to mind is that the CEO was trying to guard against racial division. He wanted to avoid a situation where race mattered at all in his company, and was probing to see if this person was easily triggered along those lines. While twisted, it makes some sense since a job offer was actually forthcoming.
- metaphorm 10y ago
  that was the only explanation I could come up with also. the non-charitable explanation is that he's just an asshole and possibly also a racist. the charitable explanation is that he's just insensitive and authentically wanted to make sure that the candidate would be ok with being the only black worker in his department. he certainly could have expressed himself in a less dickish way though, even if that really was his motive.
  - wcummings 10y ago
    Possibly also a racist? That's being pretty generous
- sangnoir 10y ago
  > He wanted to avoid a situation where race mattered at all in his company, and was probing to see if this person was easily triggered along those lines Of all the characteristics/dimensions that makes us human - why would he isolate race as a potential trigger and why is it important? Would you be equally ok with similar 'probes' for other start-up out-groups - women, LGBT, $RELIGION, left-leaners, right-leaners, weight, disablity? I mean, he could only be probing to make sure you being an Aspie won't matter to the company, right?
  - tux1968 10y ago
    What makes you think I'm okay with it? By the way, are you taking a shot at people afflicted with Asperger's syndrome by referring to me as an "Aspie"? It seems rather hypocritical of you if that's true.
petegrif 10y ago
Feels to me like you handled it extremely well on both occasions. Thanks (really) for sharing.
ps4fanboy 10y ago
I see people lying all the time in life, about everything, then I read stories like this and they seem cringe and unreal with no reason to believe they are true. But there is this pressure to believe them because its about sexism or racism and we should take this story as true because skepticism is bad, I find it really difficult to resolve these feelings of distrust, human beings are just overall untrust worthy. EDIT: I guess I broke the #ListenAndBelieve rule.
- Infinitesimus 10y ago
  Of course you have no reason to believe anyone's story. Don't forget that the same thing was said about police brutality for decades until we started seeing more and more footage as evidence. It's hard to imagine and even notice the racism and sexism that happens today if you're not on the receiving end of it, no doubt (not to make any guesses about your race or gender, of course). Perhaps a relateable situation will be the denial and disbelief about CIA and NSA scandals until more information came out. Not saying believe everything you hear, but don't be so eager to dismiss a story merely because you do not see/know/experience what another part does.
- pastProlog 10y ago
  I don't find it hard to believe. In most of the cases where someone said something inappropriate, it was at a mostly young startup that had some success and then hired some older, white, male executives. At one company, a married black director, my boss, had hired a black woman as an assistant. A newly hired older white executive was asking around if she was hired because she was his side girlfriend. At another company an executive went to a bar with one of the younger guys, and advised him to always hit on the "ethnic" women. There's nothing new to what you're saying, plenty of white people in the U.S. south said there was no civil rights problem back in the 1950s and believed it. Most of those people thought some Jewish rabbi from 2000 years ago came back from the dead. People believe what they want to believe.
  - ps4fanboy 10y ago
    White men dont have a monopoly on racism.
pessimizer 10y ago
Looks like somebody is finally trying to replace the BDPA, thank god.
Reese1379 10y ago
Sounds to me like a good test of character. It would be interesting if this self described 'black software engineer' would tell us who the founder/CEO was and the name of the company. Why do all the Black kids sit at the same table at school? Why do all the Asian kids sit at the front of the class? Why is it ok for rap singers to say nigger but not anyone else? I really want to know. See another African American dude being racially profiled: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uTP1fdFu0c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uTP1fdFu0c
- roninb 10y ago
  A test of character? As in, "Are you the kind of person who can be tenacious enough to work under a manipulative bigot?" I'm trying hard to see your point of view, despite the baiting.
  - Reese1379 10y ago
    It's not baiting, in the wonderful world of work, you can expect to be on the receiving end of such comments. I speak from a position of experience. "All I Really Need to Know I Learned from Watching Star Trek" http://www.amazon.com/Really-Need-Know-Learned-Watching/dp/0517883864 http://www.amazon.com/Really-Need-Know-Learned-Watching/dp/0...
    - JustSomeNobody 10y ago
      In the wonderful world of work, these comments/questions are absolutely, unquestionably, without a doubt, inappropriate and should never happen. Never.
    - IOT_Apprentice 10y ago
      So the CEO fostered such a culture from literally the start of his interview. It was a warning, that the CEO was racist and not a place to work at.
- apalmer 10y ago
  Actually, I agree with you as far as it being a good test of character... on both ends though... i have been on and seen these kinds of interviews where the applicant is deliberately put in uncomfortable positions to see how they are going to react... In general i have found the that it works, it is a simple and incredibly efficient way to find out who can handle themselves, at the same time it clearly exposes the mentality of the interviewer. The interviewer is showing they will use psychological manipulation to get what they want from you as efficiently as possible even if they know it causes you discomfort. I personally don't think the interviewer was some extreme racist, he was just more or less a just a dick.
st3v3r 10y ago
"When the recruiter called as congratulated me on getting an offer, I immediately declined, citing “severe cultural differences.”" It would have been great to see the recruiter's reaction if they had straight up said, "It's because your boss asked me why he can't say nigger." Although I can understand exactly why he didn't say that.
- trhway 10y ago
  >I immediately declined, citing “severe cultural differences.”" a good guy. An opportunist in his place could most probably have scored a nice settlement for racial discrimination after few months on the job :)
  - st3v3r 10y ago
    I fail to see how he'd be an opportunist considering there's a very real chance of it happening.
no_trousers 10y ago
I'm a "South Asian" in a European country and I've seen worse. But you don't hear me whining about it. Get your shit together.
- sjrjkfckjr 10y ago
  I'm south Asian too and not only is this comment completely unproductive for a discussion on racism but it completes shut downs the discussion by calling the OP a whiner. Also the OP has worked at 3 of the top tech organizations in the US. I think the only person who needs to get their "shit together" is the original interviewer and perhaps you for shutting down this discussion (which is desperately needed).
  - no_trousers 10y ago
    No. If words and sentences about race push your buttons then you're one of those whiny people who I wouldn't want to hire. If I were asked the same questions as OP I would have dismissed them with a "fuck knows, ask them, lets talk tech" and that would have been it. You dont owe anything to a group of people because they share your skin color. Understand this.
    - stcredzero 10y ago
      You dont owe anything to a group of people because they share your skin color. Understand this. Right. I don't think one really fixes racial discrimination by engaging in more racial discrimination.
    - thelock85 10y ago
      >> If words and sentences about race push your buttons then you're one of those whiny people who I wouldn't want to hire. Taken alone without context, I'd agree with this statement but where does one draw the line? Many organizations are homogenous enough where whining over race(gender/class/religion/sexuality)-related comments is a rare event. Have you ever worked in a diverse organization where whining over the aforementioned was normal (and hence annoying from your viewpoint)? The OP is not about whining over racism. It's about how-to talk about race when two people are considering a mutually-desired conversation. Your commentary is whining over a hypothetical "whine" that never took place in the OP's world (unless you count being publicly invited to speak on hiring experiences). I repeat: Have you ever worked in a diverse organization where whining over the aforementioned was normal (and hence annoying from your viewpoint)? Practically speaking, let's not overlook the legality of "words and sentences about race" when hiring in the U.S. Take your liberty but don't break the law [0] --if only for the health and well-being of your organization if not self. [0] https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/practices/ https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/practices/
sverige 10y ago
I have a caveat to add to the author's assertion that discussing race becomes easier with practice. That's not always true in the short run, but I agree that it is in the long run, assuming good faith on both sides. What I've found is that it depends on so many variables between the people wanting to have the discussion that it's entirely unpredictable how it will turn out - and often unpredictable even if it's the same two parties with discussions separated by time. I'm a white man married to a black woman. We've known each other over 35 years. We've had discussions on many aspects of the racial divide over the years, of course. I think that I understand her point of view as a black woman much better now than I did in the '80s, or '90s, or '00s, though even today she may say that I just don't get it. (And I think she understands where I'm coming from better, too.) But the effort has been worth it. It's just very, very difficult sometimes to have such discussions. As far as the substance of his experience with the interviewer, sadly, I completely believe it and am not even surprised. The author handled himself with dignity at every step. It had to take a lot of courage to tell it straight when the session on interviewing brought it all back up years later. So what everyone went silent? Their discomfort isn't comparable to what I suspect his was. Telling the truth is always worth it, especially when it's hard. Hopefully sharing his negative experience helped at least one person in that session to reconsider what they probably considered to be long-settled (and probably vague) opinions about their own rightness in this regard. tl;dr: It's easy to learn to avoid saying what you really feel and think when you're in a work environment and you know there could be repercussions. It's hard to challenge yourself and others to go beneath the surface, but the rewards are great.
- fsaneq2 10y ago
  > "It's hard to challenge yourself and others to go beneath the surface, but the rewards are great." The author of the post seems entirely reasonable and I'd love to have a discussion with him about this type of stuff. The problem, at least for me, is that it's difficult to tell upfront who's reasonable and who is not. What I mean by reasonable is someone who will put forward an honest effort to have a discussion, as opposed to deliberately trying to insult the other party (like the CEO from the article), or deliberately trying look for unintended missteps and immediately paint the opponent as some kind of racist monster (like some POC). I used to be quite honest about these things; now with more experience I think I am less so. This seems really sad, and like a step backwards, but I don't really see how to solve it without somehow being able to guarantee the other party will cooperate. Of course, if it is your wife, I'm sure you trust her a lot and she trusts you as well, which facilitates the discussion. However, realistically the vast majority of these discussions will be between people who not only don't trust each other as much, but they might even see each other as foes/adversaries. In that scenario, I'm not sure it's a good idea to "challenge yourself [...] to go beneath the surface".
george_soros 10y ago
We can only fight racism with progressive racism - Slavoj Žižek
AndrewKemendo 10y ago
Shockingly, his first question had nothing to do with technology. “Why do all the Black kids sit at the same table at school?” he asked. I was taken aback but tried to explain the social dynamics that might be at play. He followed with, “Why is it no longer okay to say nr?” That's just insane. What on earth would make someone think those questions are anything relevant to work? Maybe it's because I'm a "person of color" - even though I'm not "black" - but race is the last thing on my mind when I'm interviewing candidates or trying to push a new release to production. I've been patted down by store managers because they thought I was suspicious. I've been turned away from bars/clubs because I would "cause trouble." None of these things relates to how I comment on code, implement a design, build some architecture etc... Conversations like this are difficult to have in the workplace, but ultimately necessary in creating an inclusive environment. Sorry I disagree here. I don't think they are necessary. It's certainly helpful to relate to and have a great relationship with your fellow co-workers, but there are literally hundreds of other aspects of someone's life to get into other than ethnicity, sexuality or religion - the hottest button issues around. That is taking into consideration that race is such a big part of daily life for black and "dark" people. If nothing else work should be a place where race questions aren't even in the air.
- T2_t2 10y ago
  > If nothing else work should be a place where race questions aren't even in the air. If only that were possible. Sadly, people have blended their work, public and private life so much that it seems to me that everything is about everything now. The concept of different spheres is now dead and buried. I'm not sure that was a wise move, personally. I also wonder, now that "meritocracy" is a bad word, what can we use to promote the idea that you can earn something through talent? I mean, we are now denied use of the word that literally means "a place where you achieve based on talent", so how do we even have a discussion about this? It seems the idea of a workplace where you get what you earn is no longer possible to discuss, so how it can be implemented is beyond me.
  - AndrewKemendo 10y ago
    I'm not naiive to the fact that is is an issue. However, it is possible.
educar 10y ago
(I am not black or american) I am going to come across as clueless here but why is that 'nr' is offsensive for black people.. and yet every movie with black people has them screaming this word all the time. And the rap music is filled with them. If they find it offsensive, why do they keep using it. I have asked this to my local population here but we don't have the necessary insight into this phenomenon. Is there any parallels to this where it's ok to call each other something but others cannot call you that (so it can help me understand better)? Thanks!
- apalmer 10y ago
  American and Black. It is a bad part of american black 'culture'. It is illogical, and it is ignorant. Its not really anything more than that. Rap has done a disservice in that regards... on the other hand the only word that is probably more common than nr in rap is bitch and hoe... its bitch and hoe this, bitch and hoe that... and yet i have never heard anyone ever ask how come they shouldn't be saying bitch or hoe to women. Whats so complex about that?
  - educar 10y ago
    I lack the cultural insight but from far across the seas here it seems that using the n-word is borderline illegal unlike bitch/hoe. Didn't kramer get crucified for using that word? Do you think he would have gotten the same reaction if he had used the words you mentioned? (His entire career went kaput after all).
    - vacri 10y ago
      Bitch/hoe are terms that the politically powerful majority use to keep a minority in check. The people who use bitch/hoe are already on the skirts of society. The people who used nigger casually included powerful people of all stripes, right up to senators (and probably a few presidents). Bitch/hoe was never seen as something that a 'respectable person' would legitimately say.
      - vacri 10y ago
lizzard 10y ago
It's a hard decision to make, whether to tell people your perspective from a marginalized position. They feel bad and don't know what to do with that knowledge, or how to integrate it with their own different experiences. I love the bullet points of advice Makinde gives here for people hearing unfamiliar experiences from their coworkers or friends, to figure out how they can be okay with that discomfort.
abvdasker 10y ago
For a few minutes after I was done reading Mr. Adeagbo's piece I wondered if maybe the story of his interview was made up or exaggerated. It's hard to believe someone would do something that mean-spirited (or perhaps just deeply insensitive). I thought to myself that, surely, people in tech don't actually say or do these kinds of things. But I kept reading comments and the ones at the bottom put my doubts to rest.
- kenjackson 10y ago
  Internet comments are probably the most depressing mirror on our society.
- chillacy 10y ago
  I once worked at a large tech company... one of those ruthless fast paced ones. An interviewer liked to ask dumb things like "what's your GPA" <reply> "Why is it not 4.0?" or "where'd you graduate from?" <your school> "Why not stanford?" I can't tell if he did it because it was a useful technique to throw people off and test them, or if he was just a supreme dick. Either way the interviewer in the article went too far into illegal mode (interviewer training 101: never mention race, marital status, military service, etc)
- robbies 10y ago
  Actually, that feeling you had of not believing it because it seemed so improbable is a fairly common reaction (in my experience as a PoC). It was an "aha!" moment for me to realize that not everyone has had those experiences, and if you hadn't, the scenarios just seem so foreign. I think it's a similar feeling to being a man, and not really understanding all the crazy shit women have to deal with.
gizi 10y ago
I am non-American mixed-race. I personally consider racism to be -- in and of itself -- a non-issue. It does not kill you, and everything that does not kill you, ultimately makes you stronger. I consider racism to be irrelevant because it mostly is. I can barely imagine a new situation in which someone would be able to stage a racist attack. I am probably entirely hedged against those already. The real problem is always the abuse of government power: "I’ve been interrogated at gunpoint by police because I fit the description". So, yes, if they choose the time and the place, they can indeed attack you, if they so desire. However, it perfectly well works the other around as well. If you chose the time and the place, it would work too. The only solution that truly works against the problem of lack of respect, is to inflict respect-instilling reprisals. Therefore, the real problem, are your false beliefs in their fake legitimacy. Hence, in reality, state racism is a problem of religion. Racism against Muslims pretty much fails, because they are increasingly making that very practice insanely dangerous. The police are very aware of that. They know that there will routinely be reprisals. This is the enormous attraction of Islam. It pretty much solves all the problems of abuse of power, including state racism.
Frozenlock 10y ago
I see a myriad of threads about interviews on HN. They all say that you can't really code in an interview. You don't have your favorite tools nor any real projet or familiarity with a codebase. These threads will say that the interview should, at most, be there to help you see if there's a culture fit. Now you have an interview where the guy asked questions that aren't related to programming and everyone is up in arms. Maybe it's because he did his homework? Maybe he already checked M. Adeagbo work and decided he wanted him in the company? So now I suppose the interview isn't supposed to be used to check if someone is a good programmer... but it also shouldn't approach any subject that is emotional, because by gosh you wouldn't want to know how someone will react on a sensitive subject. You guys must have the weirdest social interactions ever. Within an hour of meeting someone I usually "size" them by throwing curved ball designed to see what makes them ticks. That is exactly what I would expect in a well designed interview, especially if you are looking for culture fit. Frankly, I find that these questions are well designed. Look at how I immediately answered them: >“Why do all the Black kids sit at the same table at school?” "Same reason Asians or Whites will do the same thing under the same conditions." What can we deduce? Not much, except that I'm aware of basic biology/human behavior. Better luck in the next question... >“Why is it no longer okay to say nr?” "It is okay, but you need to be of the correct race... and apparently that's not racist. (with a hint of sarcasm)" Bingo! Now you known that when I talk of sexism and racism, I use the dictionary definition, NOT the new "minorities can't be sexist/racist" version. And just like that, you know if I'm a good fit. (If it's in SF, probably not...) >"/dev/color is a community of black software engineers who help one another reach career goals." This is literally a racist club. ---> A group who discriminates based on race. Now, I have nothing against that... but you can't say a word if white clubs are created.
fiatmoney 10y ago
At this point it is appropriate to exercise skepticism towards claims of random acts of racial sadism that just happen to comport with popular "social justice" narratives. http://www.fakehatecrimes.org/reports http://www.fakehatecrimes.org/reports
- jecjec 10y ago
  My thoughts exactly.
- natrius 10y ago
  lol. Black people are literally getting gunned down in the streets by our government without prosecution, but you think a couple of outlandish questions in an interview are implausible. Adorable.
  - fiatmoney 10y ago
    Unlike a policeman who shot someone, I would expect actual negative consequences would accrue to a CEO who routinely behaved like that in technical interviews, and that they would expect such negative consequences to accrue.
    - natrius 10y ago
      Interviews with black software engineers are not routine. Even if they were, folks like you would believe that people were making up their stories.
known 10y ago
The scientific way to train white people to stop being racist http://qz.com/656159/the-scientific-way-to-train-white-people-to-stop-being-racist/ http://qz.com/656159/the-scientific-way-to-train-white-peopl...

226 points by bdr 10y ago

Anyone giving interviews should completely understand that there are questions that you're not allowed to ask. Technology is now hip and cool so we break the rules is no excuse for being ignorant of how to treat another human being.

mathattack 10y ago

Courageous post!

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

buckbova 10y ago

> “Why do all the Black kids sit at the same table at school?” ... “Why is it no longer okay to say nr?" WTF. Offensive or not these questions are plain dumb. He must have been trying to illicit a reaction from Makinde. Reminds me of the SNL skit where Richard Pryor is being interviewed by Chevy Chase doing word associations. https://vimeo.com/117983862 https://vimeo.com/117983862

not_that_noob 10y ago
My sense is that he was making sure that Makinde wouldn't be too politically assertive about race issues. Borderline illegal most likely, apart from being exceedingly and odiously offensive.
- tetrep 10y ago
  > ...he was making sure that Makinde wouldn't be too politically assertive about race issues. I think that gives him far too much credit. It's no different than if you asked someone "Why is it offensive if I grope you, hit on you, and imply that sexual favors will advance your career?" It smacks of complete obliviousness to social issues at best, which would make the interviewer extremely unqualified to screen interview candidates for anything other than pure technical qualifications. Which, in this instance, they were obviously conducting an at least partially non-technical interview. My suspicion is it's an aggressive move, to make sure that the racially insensitive and/or offensive status quo can be maintained with the interviewer betting heavily that their actions would not be called out post-hoc and that any candidate who was offended would walk away quietly. The people creating such a climate can claim an attempt at stimulating diversity, but that their job offers are turned down. It's unfortunate that we don't know who did this nor does it appear that their company was contacted/informed about the inappropriate behavior of one of their employees.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- stcredzero 10y ago
  My sense is that he was making sure that Makinde wouldn't be too politically assertive about race issues. Strange. My sense is that the interviewer was fishing to see if he would be politically assertive enough.
- IOT_Apprentice 10y ago
  Assertive when asking a black man why he can't use the word nigger to his face? Politically assertive or meek and subservient to this asshole?
- slackstation 10y ago
  > ...he was making sure that Makinde wouldn't be too politically assertive about race issues. Well, if he were truely politically assertive, he would answer smoothly and to the interviewers full satisfaction, take the job, wear a microphone and follow up on the interview questions on tape and then sue the everliving shit out of the company. It's strategically stupid in addition to being an asshole move. The only people who really suffer are the ones that you actually want; reasonable, smart developers with options will wisely avoid this company like the plague. The risk that your manager will continue to act this way or that they will have a deep-seeded bias against black people is high. The chance that they are merely good-intentioned but, inarticulate and socially awkward are low. Even in that best case scenario, those are terrible qualities to have in a manager.
- cloudjacker 10y ago
  Well, not illegal as he wasn't an employee AND he got an offer from the company So there is no claim to make. If he was an employee or didn't get an offer he could get the EEOC to strongarm the company into an OK settlement. Otherwise without a federal agency bankrolling the strongarming, there is no way to make something like an emotional distress claim in state court especially with the lack of proof.
ww520 10y ago
It sounds like a power play. Interview is already a unbalanced power situation. Using race to try to put someone in their place is fucked up on so many levels.
- prawn 10y ago
  I imagine it was the interviewer trying to be upfront and casual about it, but coming across as very awkward instead especially given that they were his opening questions in a professional setting!
- tootie 10y ago
  Sounds more like the guy was mildly autistic. Saying that out loud just opens you up to public ridicule and scorn.
joshrotenberg 10y ago
Yeah, I had to read that a few times to see if I missed something ... not that I can think of anything that would have made it a less shocking that someone would walk into a room to interview someone and ask questions like that.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
LordKano 10y ago
I have stepped away from development for the time being but as a black man in the industry, when I read that, I already knew what my answers would have been. He was probably a lot more diplomatic than I would have been.

sbilstein 10y ago

I wish it would be safe for those to out their offenders...I really wonder which CEO would think to ask such a ridiculous and offensive question.

Shivetya 10y ago
Nah, there is little reason to out an offender if there are no witnesses. Then it becomes another he said/he said type mess and nothing gets fixed. We have nothing in the story to determine race, background, or such, of the person asking the question other than to imply they should have known better. Well some accomplished people truly don't or worse they are beyond reach. There are some who act out of anger having experienced a bad situation and apply the reaction to all subsequent meetings with similar. Sadly the word is bandied about in some crowds including highly technical groups and sadly bad members of the group normally slighted with the word. tl;dr ignorance exists at all levels of society but going after it requires an abundance of proof and sometimes its best to use said occurrences to educate instead of persecute
ps4fanboy 10y ago
Sounds like a great way to get hit with a libel case.

hnamazon123 10y ago

> We should talk about this some more. Just be ready — you might find out a lot more than you bargained for. Obviously Makinde's experience with the CEO is outrageous and abhorrent but race-related issues go very much beyond his personal negative experiences. This is usually a one-sided discussion and therefore disingenuous to frame this as a discussion. Any sort of questioning of a PoC talking about their experiences or their opinions on race is social suicide. The incessant focus on identity politics and oppression olympics is extremely cancerous and antithetical to the fundamental ethos of a civic nation-state such as America.

dandelany 10y ago
Based on the fact that you don't want to talk about it, I'm guessing this is not an issue that you have to deal with personally. "The incessant focus on identity politics and oppression olympics is extremely cancerous" Yes, instead of dealing with race-related issues, which you admit exist, let's just tell the people who suffer that their POV is cancerous and they should shut up. That should fix things. -_-
- fsaneq2 10y ago
  I don't think that's what he's trying to say. He's probably referring to the fact that unless you're black/poc/whatever you're not allowed to have an opinion; it's the blacks/pocs/whatevers that are making him shut up, not the other way around.
  - st3v3r 10y ago
    Well, unless you've actually experienced those things, your opinion really isn't valid.
    - hnamazon123 10y ago
      And yet everyone must live in a society subject to policies that are enacted as response to racism or supposed racism. To suggest that people should be absolutely silent and not contribute to the discourse that leads to policies that affect their lives is morally abhorrent. Ask them to weight their opinions, sure but telling them to shut up is absurd.

vowelless 10y ago

That was a really ridiculous question to ask. I'm brown and if someone asked me about middle eastern politics during an interview or worse made some low quality comment, I would promotly get up and leave. I don't have the patience for that in a professional setting. On a separate note > /dev/color is a community of black software engineers who help one another reach career goals. To learn more, check out our website and follow our blog & twitter account. Then why not call it /dev/black? I find it confusing. Does "color" imply black? I have been called a "person of color" before, due to my brown skin and middle eastern features.

killa_kyle 10y ago
color is any ethnicity that's not "white". In the U.S. it's mostly used to refer to black people, but Asians, Hispanics, etc are also considered "colored"
- mineshaftgap 10y ago
  Asians are considered white because they value education
- thaumasiotes 10y ago
  Asians are frequently vilified as "lily-white". ;)
- rat87 10y ago
  In the US colored is an offensive term for black people. People of Color is a term to describe non-white minorities, popular among left wing, especially left wing minority activists.
  - jonathankoren 10y ago
    It's not offensive, but it is archaic. It makes you sound like you grew up in the 1950s.
    - 10y ago

sremani 10y ago

>>>Ask If It’s Okay. You might have follow-up questions or a thought to add. Don’t assume I’m ready to, or want to, have a deep conversation about the issue right then and there. If I’m not ready, be okay with that. What seems like a simple question for you, might have a deep, complicated response in my mind <<< This is exact reason people do not want to go through, talking about race for many it is like walking on egg shells. Who wants to really do it? Not only people do not want to feel rejected, but also not be dragged into a drama or creating more drama.

kingkawn 10y ago
If you try it will get easier quickly. What is a fearful burden to many becomes a place of ease for you, and a whole new population of people is suddenly available to speak to, like learning a new language.
sangnoir 10y ago
Let me recontextualize your statement > This is exact reason people do not want to go through, talking about getting a raise for many it is like walking on egg shells. Who wants to really do it? Not only people do not want to feel rejected, but also not be dragged into a drama or creating more drama If you're underpaid, you probably want to walk on those egg-shells ;). If everyone stayed in their comfort-zone, we'd all suffer from a sub-optimal status quo
AndrewKemendo 10y ago
Just don't ask. Curious about how race impacts someone's life? Spend time with them. It will become very obvious without you having to ask anything and you'll get the benefit of being able to empathize from seeing it first hand. Or, if you want to really try hard - work against your biological instinct to segment people into buckets based on physical attributes. Get to know who they see themselves as rather than how you see them by finding out what is important to them. Here is an easy start: Instead of asking "where are you from" a simple and innocuous question which reveals basically nothing about someone - ask "what kind of hobbies are you into?"
- 10y ago

tux1968 10y ago

Trying to imagine a case where this CEO is just inappropriate rather than mean spirited. The only idea that comes to mind is that the CEO was trying to guard against racial division. He wanted to avoid a situation where race mattered at all in his company, and was probing to see if this person was easily triggered along those lines. While twisted, it makes some sense since a job offer was actually forthcoming.

metaphorm 10y ago
that was the only explanation I could come up with also. the non-charitable explanation is that he's just an asshole and possibly also a racist. the charitable explanation is that he's just insensitive and authentically wanted to make sure that the candidate would be ok with being the only black worker in his department. he certainly could have expressed himself in a less dickish way though, even if that really was his motive.
- wcummings 10y ago
  Possibly also a racist? That's being pretty generous
sangnoir 10y ago
> He wanted to avoid a situation where race mattered at all in his company, and was probing to see if this person was easily triggered along those lines Of all the characteristics/dimensions that makes us human - why would he isolate race as a potential trigger and why is it important? Would you be equally ok with similar 'probes' for other start-up out-groups - women, LGBT, $RELIGION, left-leaners, right-leaners, weight, disablity? I mean, he could only be probing to make sure you being an Aspie won't matter to the company, right?
- tux1968 10y ago
  What makes you think I'm okay with it? By the way, are you taking a shot at people afflicted with Asperger's syndrome by referring to me as an "Aspie"? It seems rather hypocritical of you if that's true.

petegrif 10y ago

Feels to me like you handled it extremely well on both occasions. Thanks (really) for sharing.

ps4fanboy 10y ago

I see people lying all the time in life, about everything, then I read stories like this and they seem cringe and unreal with no reason to believe they are true. But there is this pressure to believe them because its about sexism or racism and we should take this story as true because skepticism is bad, I find it really difficult to resolve these feelings of distrust, human beings are just overall untrust worthy. EDIT: I guess I broke the #ListenAndBelieve rule.

Infinitesimus 10y ago
Of course you have no reason to believe anyone's story. Don't forget that the same thing was said about police brutality for decades until we started seeing more and more footage as evidence. It's hard to imagine and even notice the racism and sexism that happens today if you're not on the receiving end of it, no doubt (not to make any guesses about your race or gender, of course). Perhaps a relateable situation will be the denial and disbelief about CIA and NSA scandals until more information came out. Not saying believe everything you hear, but don't be so eager to dismiss a story merely because you do not see/know/experience what another part does.
pastProlog 10y ago
I don't find it hard to believe. In most of the cases where someone said something inappropriate, it was at a mostly young startup that had some success and then hired some older, white, male executives. At one company, a married black director, my boss, had hired a black woman as an assistant. A newly hired older white executive was asking around if she was hired because she was his side girlfriend. At another company an executive went to a bar with one of the younger guys, and advised him to always hit on the "ethnic" women. There's nothing new to what you're saying, plenty of white people in the U.S. south said there was no civil rights problem back in the 1950s and believed it. Most of those people thought some Jewish rabbi from 2000 years ago came back from the dead. People believe what they want to believe.
- ps4fanboy 10y ago
  White men dont have a monopoly on racism.

pessimizer 10y ago

Looks like somebody is finally trying to replace the BDPA, thank god.

Reese1379 10y ago

Sounds to me like a good test of character. It would be interesting if this self described 'black software engineer' would tell us who the founder/CEO was and the name of the company. Why do all the Black kids sit at the same table at school? Why do all the Asian kids sit at the front of the class? Why is it ok for rap singers to say nigger but not anyone else? I really want to know. See another African American dude being racially profiled: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uTP1fdFu0c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uTP1fdFu0c

roninb 10y ago
A test of character? As in, "Are you the kind of person who can be tenacious enough to work under a manipulative bigot?" I'm trying hard to see your point of view, despite the baiting.
- Reese1379 10y ago
  It's not baiting, in the wonderful world of work, you can expect to be on the receiving end of such comments. I speak from a position of experience. "All I Really Need to Know I Learned from Watching Star Trek" http://www.amazon.com/Really-Need-Know-Learned-Watching/dp/0517883864 http://www.amazon.com/Really-Need-Know-Learned-Watching/dp/0...
  - JustSomeNobody 10y ago
    In the wonderful world of work, these comments/questions are absolutely, unquestionably, without a doubt, inappropriate and should never happen. Never.
  - IOT_Apprentice 10y ago
    So the CEO fostered such a culture from literally the start of his interview. It was a warning, that the CEO was racist and not a place to work at.
apalmer 10y ago
Actually, I agree with you as far as it being a good test of character... on both ends though... i have been on and seen these kinds of interviews where the applicant is deliberately put in uncomfortable positions to see how they are going to react... In general i have found the that it works, it is a simple and incredibly efficient way to find out who can handle themselves, at the same time it clearly exposes the mentality of the interviewer. The interviewer is showing they will use psychological manipulation to get what they want from you as efficiently as possible even if they know it causes you discomfort. I personally don't think the interviewer was some extreme racist, he was just more or less a just a dick.

st3v3r 10y ago

"When the recruiter called as congratulated me on getting an offer, I immediately declined, citing “severe cultural differences.”" It would have been great to see the recruiter's reaction if they had straight up said, "It's because your boss asked me why he can't say nigger." Although I can understand exactly why he didn't say that.

trhway 10y ago
>I immediately declined, citing “severe cultural differences.”" a good guy. An opportunist in his place could most probably have scored a nice settlement for racial discrimination after few months on the job :)
- st3v3r 10y ago
  I fail to see how he'd be an opportunist considering there's a very real chance of it happening.

no_trousers 10y ago

I'm a "South Asian" in a European country and I've seen worse. But you don't hear me whining about it. Get your shit together.

sjrjkfckjr 10y ago
I'm south Asian too and not only is this comment completely unproductive for a discussion on racism but it completes shut downs the discussion by calling the OP a whiner. Also the OP has worked at 3 of the top tech organizations in the US. I think the only person who needs to get their "shit together" is the original interviewer and perhaps you for shutting down this discussion (which is desperately needed).
- no_trousers 10y ago
  No. If words and sentences about race push your buttons then you're one of those whiny people who I wouldn't want to hire. If I were asked the same questions as OP I would have dismissed them with a "fuck knows, ask them, lets talk tech" and that would have been it. You dont owe anything to a group of people because they share your skin color. Understand this.
  - stcredzero 10y ago
    You dont owe anything to a group of people because they share your skin color. Understand this. Right. I don't think one really fixes racial discrimination by engaging in more racial discrimination.
  - thelock85 10y ago
    >> If words and sentences about race push your buttons then you're one of those whiny people who I wouldn't want to hire. Taken alone without context, I'd agree with this statement but where does one draw the line? Many organizations are homogenous enough where whining over race(gender/class/religion/sexuality)-related comments is a rare event. Have you ever worked in a diverse organization where whining over the aforementioned was normal (and hence annoying from your viewpoint)? The OP is not about whining over racism. It's about how-to talk about race when two people are considering a mutually-desired conversation. Your commentary is whining over a hypothetical "whine" that never took place in the OP's world (unless you count being publicly invited to speak on hiring experiences). I repeat: Have you ever worked in a diverse organization where whining over the aforementioned was normal (and hence annoying from your viewpoint)? Practically speaking, let's not overlook the legality of "words and sentences about race" when hiring in the U.S. Take your liberty but don't break the law [0] --if only for the health and well-being of your organization if not self. [0] https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/practices/ https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/practices/

sverige 10y ago

I have a caveat to add to the author's assertion that discussing race becomes easier with practice. That's not always true in the short run, but I agree that it is in the long run, assuming good faith on both sides. What I've found is that it depends on so many variables between the people wanting to have the discussion that it's entirely unpredictable how it will turn out - and often unpredictable even if it's the same two parties with discussions separated by time. I'm a white man married to a black woman. We've known each other over 35 years. We've had discussions on many aspects of the racial divide over the years, of course. I think that I understand her point of view as a black woman much better now than I did in the '80s, or '90s, or '00s, though even today she may say that I just don't get it. (And I think she understands where I'm coming from better, too.) But the effort has been worth it. It's just very, very difficult sometimes to have such discussions. As far as the substance of his experience with the interviewer, sadly, I completely believe it and am not even surprised. The author handled himself with dignity at every step. It had to take a lot of courage to tell it straight when the session on interviewing brought it all back up years later. So what everyone went silent? Their discomfort isn't comparable to what I suspect his was. Telling the truth is always worth it, especially when it's hard. Hopefully sharing his negative experience helped at least one person in that session to reconsider what they probably considered to be long-settled (and probably vague) opinions about their own rightness in this regard. tl;dr: It's easy to learn to avoid saying what you really feel and think when you're in a work environment and you know there could be repercussions. It's hard to challenge yourself and others to go beneath the surface, but the rewards are great.

fsaneq2 10y ago
> "It's hard to challenge yourself and others to go beneath the surface, but the rewards are great." The author of the post seems entirely reasonable and I'd love to have a discussion with him about this type of stuff. The problem, at least for me, is that it's difficult to tell upfront who's reasonable and who is not. What I mean by reasonable is someone who will put forward an honest effort to have a discussion, as opposed to deliberately trying to insult the other party (like the CEO from the article), or deliberately trying look for unintended missteps and immediately paint the opponent as some kind of racist monster (like some POC). I used to be quite honest about these things; now with more experience I think I am less so. This seems really sad, and like a step backwards, but I don't really see how to solve it without somehow being able to guarantee the other party will cooperate. Of course, if it is your wife, I'm sure you trust her a lot and she trusts you as well, which facilitates the discussion. However, realistically the vast majority of these discussions will be between people who not only don't trust each other as much, but they might even see each other as foes/adversaries. In that scenario, I'm not sure it's a good idea to "challenge yourself [...] to go beneath the surface".

george_soros 10y ago

We can only fight racism with progressive racism - Slavoj Žižek

AndrewKemendo 10y ago

Shockingly, his first question had nothing to do with technology. “Why do all the Black kids sit at the same table at school?” he asked. I was taken aback but tried to explain the social dynamics that might be at play. He followed with, “Why is it no longer okay to say nr?” That's just insane. What on earth would make someone think those questions are anything relevant to work? Maybe it's because I'm a "person of color" - even though I'm not "black" - but race is the last thing on my mind when I'm interviewing candidates or trying to push a new release to production. I've been patted down by store managers because they thought I was suspicious. I've been turned away from bars/clubs because I would "cause trouble." None of these things relates to how I comment on code, implement a design, build some architecture etc... Conversations like this are difficult to have in the workplace, but ultimately necessary in creating an inclusive environment. Sorry I disagree here. I don't think they are necessary. It's certainly helpful to relate to and have a great relationship with your fellow co-workers, but there are literally hundreds of other aspects of someone's life to get into other than ethnicity, sexuality or religion - the hottest button issues around. That is taking into consideration that race is such a big part of daily life for black and "dark" people. If nothing else work should be a place where race questions aren't even in the air.

T2_t2 10y ago
> If nothing else work should be a place where race questions aren't even in the air. If only that were possible. Sadly, people have blended their work, public and private life so much that it seems to me that everything is about everything now. The concept of different spheres is now dead and buried. I'm not sure that was a wise move, personally. I also wonder, now that "meritocracy" is a bad word, what can we use to promote the idea that you can earn something through talent? I mean, we are now denied use of the word that literally means "a place where you achieve based on talent", so how do we even have a discussion about this? It seems the idea of a workplace where you get what you earn is no longer possible to discuss, so how it can be implemented is beyond me.
- AndrewKemendo 10y ago
  I'm not naiive to the fact that is is an issue. However, it is possible.

educar 10y ago

(I am not black or american) I am going to come across as clueless here but why is that 'nr' is offsensive for black people.. and yet every movie with black people has them screaming this word all the time. And the rap music is filled with them. If they find it offsensive, why do they keep using it. I have asked this to my local population here but we don't have the necessary insight into this phenomenon. Is there any parallels to this where it's ok to call each other something but others cannot call you that (so it can help me understand better)? Thanks!

apalmer 10y ago
American and Black. It is a bad part of american black 'culture'. It is illogical, and it is ignorant. Its not really anything more than that. Rap has done a disservice in that regards... on the other hand the only word that is probably more common than nr in rap is bitch and hoe... its bitch and hoe this, bitch and hoe that... and yet i have never heard anyone ever ask how come they shouldn't be saying bitch or hoe to women. Whats so complex about that?
- educar 10y ago
  I lack the cultural insight but from far across the seas here it seems that using the n-word is borderline illegal unlike bitch/hoe. Didn't kramer get crucified for using that word? Do you think he would have gotten the same reaction if he had used the words you mentioned? (His entire career went kaput after all).
  - vacri 10y ago
    Bitch/hoe are terms that the politically powerful majority use to keep a minority in check. The people who use bitch/hoe are already on the skirts of society. The people who used nigger casually included powerful people of all stripes, right up to senators (and probably a few presidents). Bitch/hoe was never seen as something that a 'respectable person' would legitimately say.
    - vacri 10y ago

lizzard 10y ago

It's a hard decision to make, whether to tell people your perspective from a marginalized position. They feel bad and don't know what to do with that knowledge, or how to integrate it with their own different experiences. I love the bullet points of advice Makinde gives here for people hearing unfamiliar experiences from their coworkers or friends, to figure out how they can be okay with that discomfort.

abvdasker 10y ago

For a few minutes after I was done reading Mr. Adeagbo's piece I wondered if maybe the story of his interview was made up or exaggerated. It's hard to believe someone would do something that mean-spirited (or perhaps just deeply insensitive). I thought to myself that, surely, people in tech don't actually say or do these kinds of things. But I kept reading comments and the ones at the bottom put my doubts to rest.

kenjackson 10y ago
Internet comments are probably the most depressing mirror on our society.
chillacy 10y ago
I once worked at a large tech company... one of those ruthless fast paced ones. An interviewer liked to ask dumb things like "what's your GPA" <reply> "Why is it not 4.0?" or "where'd you graduate from?" <your school> "Why not stanford?" I can't tell if he did it because it was a useful technique to throw people off and test them, or if he was just a supreme dick. Either way the interviewer in the article went too far into illegal mode (interviewer training 101: never mention race, marital status, military service, etc)
robbies 10y ago
Actually, that feeling you had of not believing it because it seemed so improbable is a fairly common reaction (in my experience as a PoC). It was an "aha!" moment for me to realize that not everyone has had those experiences, and if you hadn't, the scenarios just seem so foreign. I think it's a similar feeling to being a man, and not really understanding all the crazy shit women have to deal with.

gizi 10y ago

I am non-American mixed-race. I personally consider racism to be -- in and of itself -- a non-issue. It does not kill you, and everything that does not kill you, ultimately makes you stronger. I consider racism to be irrelevant because it mostly is. I can barely imagine a new situation in which someone would be able to stage a racist attack. I am probably entirely hedged against those already. The real problem is always the abuse of government power: "I’ve been interrogated at gunpoint by police because I fit the description". So, yes, if they choose the time and the place, they can indeed attack you, if they so desire. However, it perfectly well works the other around as well. If you chose the time and the place, it would work too. The only solution that truly works against the problem of lack of respect, is to inflict respect-instilling reprisals. Therefore, the real problem, are your false beliefs in their fake legitimacy. Hence, in reality, state racism is a problem of religion. Racism against Muslims pretty much fails, because they are increasingly making that very practice insanely dangerous. The police are very aware of that. They know that there will routinely be reprisals. This is the enormous attraction of Islam. It pretty much solves all the problems of abuse of power, including state racism.

Frozenlock 10y ago

I see a myriad of threads about interviews on HN. They all say that you can't really code in an interview. You don't have your favorite tools nor any real projet or familiarity with a codebase. These threads will say that the interview should, at most, be there to help you see if there's a culture fit. Now you have an interview where the guy asked questions that aren't related to programming and everyone is up in arms. Maybe it's because he did his homework? Maybe he already checked M. Adeagbo work and decided he wanted him in the company? So now I suppose the interview isn't supposed to be used to check if someone is a good programmer... but it also shouldn't approach any subject that is emotional, because by gosh you wouldn't want to know how someone will react on a sensitive subject. You guys must have the weirdest social interactions ever. Within an hour of meeting someone I usually "size" them by throwing curved ball designed to see what makes them ticks. That is exactly what I would expect in a well designed interview, especially if you are looking for culture fit. Frankly, I find that these questions are well designed. Look at how I immediately answered them: >“Why do all the Black kids sit at the same table at school?” "Same reason Asians or Whites will do the same thing under the same conditions." What can we deduce? Not much, except that I'm aware of basic biology/human behavior. Better luck in the next question... >“Why is it no longer okay to say nr?” "It is okay, but you need to be of the correct race... and apparently that's not racist. (with a hint of sarcasm)" Bingo! Now you known that when I talk of sexism and racism, I use the dictionary definition, NOT the new "minorities can't be sexist/racist" version. And just like that, you know if I'm a good fit. (If it's in SF, probably not...) >"/dev/color is a community of black software engineers who help one another reach career goals." This is literally a racist club. ---> A group who discriminates based on race. Now, I have nothing against that... but you can't say a word if white clubs are created.

fiatmoney 10y ago

At this point it is appropriate to exercise skepticism towards claims of random acts of racial sadism that just happen to comport with popular "social justice" narratives. http://www.fakehatecrimes.org/reports http://www.fakehatecrimes.org/reports

jecjec 10y ago
My thoughts exactly.
natrius 10y ago
lol. Black people are literally getting gunned down in the streets by our government without prosecution, but you think a couple of outlandish questions in an interview are implausible. Adorable.
- fiatmoney 10y ago
  Unlike a policeman who shot someone, I would expect actual negative consequences would accrue to a CEO who routinely behaved like that in technical interviews, and that they would expect such negative consequences to accrue.
  - natrius 10y ago
    Interviews with black software engineers are not routine. Even if they were, folks like you would believe that people were making up their stories.

known 10y ago

The scientific way to train white people to stop being racist http://qz.com/656159/the-scientific-way-to-train-white-people-to-stop-being-racist/ http://qz.com/656159/the-scientific-way-to-train-white-peopl...