5 ms·

Fly-over country has many nice large homes for $200K with 1/4 acre or larger yards. And there are tech jobs, though obviously not as concentrated as the coasts

by DougN7 10y ago

Fly-over country has many nice large homes for $200K with 1/4 acre or larger yards. And there are tech jobs, though obviously not as concentrated as the coasts. And the 15-30 minute commute is very typical. It all depends on priorities.

serge2k 10y ago
Priority number 1 is not living in a place referred to as "fly-over country".
- AnimalMuppet 10y ago
  Your choice. But if you choose it, don't complain about the consequences.
  - madengr 10y ago
    Shh.. Don't let them know I make the same tech salary in flyover country as in SF, but have good schools, and a 3600 ft^2 house for 1/5 the price.
    - DougN7 10y ago
      Boy, no kidding! About 12 years ago I moved from the west coast to the midwest to a place I never thought I'd live. I can't believe the quality of life and work-life balance out here. My friends wondered if I'd have access to the Internet :) It's really perception more than anything else.
    - enraged_camel 10y ago
      >>but have good schools Is that why the vast majority of "school decides to teach Creationism in science classes" type stories emerge from flyover country? http://arstechnica.com/search/?ie=UTF-8&q=creationism http://arstechnica.com/search/?ie=UTF-8&q=creationism Sort by date, then check the states. Ohio. Mississippi. Kansas. Idaho. No sir, you do not have good schools compared to the rest of the country.
      - culturestate 10y ago
        Texas, Illinois, Ohio, and Michigan account for 9 of the 25 best school districts in America, according to at least one ranking [1]. There are good and bad schools everywhere, and it's up to families to suss them out; living in the middle of the country does not necessarily mean living in an anti-intellectual backwater. 1. http://www.businessinsider.com/best-school-districts-in-america-2016-1 http://www.businessinsider.com/best-school-districts-in-amer...
      - dionidium 10y ago
        You can't possibly believe your own words. Am I to believe that you think every school in the Midwest teaches creationism? The ignorance and myopia in this thread is staggering.
      - madengr 10y ago
        Sorry, never heard of creationism being taught in schools around here. Although we do have a replica of Lucy in the towns science museum, and I do have a autographed copy of Dawkin's latest book when he came to talk last fall.
  - dionidium 10y ago
    The perception today is that, sure, it's hard to make it on the coast, but there are no jobs and there's no culture in the Midwest, so that's out of the question. What this is, more than anything else, is ignorant. I think I understand how it happened. The inner cores of the Midwestern cities that give large metros their names really have been gutted. They were literally ripped through by highways, intentionally segregated, their manufacturing base decimated. They're crumbling. And boy oh boy does this story have legs. It's sort of fun to flip through the destruction porn. Pictures of brick piles where houses once stood titillate. So, it must sound as though entire regions are falling apart. But it's just not so. If you were to do a quick search for information about St. Louis, MO, you'd learn that the city has a paltry median income of about $30k, a dwindling population of about 300k, and a pathetic land area of only 66 miles squared. But the City of St. Louis refers to a very small part of a much larger region, an area myopically bound by voters who in 1876 couldn't imagine much happening in the farmlands beyond those lines. The region today -- much of it on those old farmlands -- has 2.5 million people and a metro-wide median household income of around $55k. This is the true picture of the region, though most descriptions of it are drawn from only its worst parts. The fact is that, for many people, the opportunity in places like California lags far behind the increased cost of living. Lots and lots of regular folks would be far better off relocating to places they've long-ago dismissed without a serious look. Yes, we have winters. And no ocean. But, yes, there's actually culture (of the kind generated everywhere that two and a half million humans live). And good housing. And, most important: you can actually afford it.
    - joe_the_user 10y ago
      If someone is looking the broad area between the coasts, they see: 1. Crumbling ghettos (as you describe) 2. Crumbling non-ghetto rust-belt that's still not pretty 3. Rural areas beset by meth and herion. 4. Vast-scale suburbs with indeed little to no culture and fairly thin on jobs. 5. Areas like the coasts but costing close to the price of the coast - But I'm sure there's good stuff between that. Also, the City Of St. Louis is certainly the limit of the broad St. Louis ghetto, as the Ferguson events clearly shows. The metropolitan area is basically the 2nd or third most dangerous city in the US (behind Detroit and sometimes New Orleans).

by DougN7 10y ago

serge2k 10y ago

Priority number 1 is not living in a place referred to as "fly-over country".

AnimalMuppet 10y ago
Your choice. But if you choose it, don't complain about the consequences.
- madengr 10y ago
  Shh.. Don't let them know I make the same tech salary in flyover country as in SF, but have good schools, and a 3600 ft^2 house for 1/5 the price.
  - DougN7 10y ago
    Boy, no kidding! About 12 years ago I moved from the west coast to the midwest to a place I never thought I'd live. I can't believe the quality of life and work-life balance out here. My friends wondered if I'd have access to the Internet :) It's really perception more than anything else.
  - enraged_camel 10y ago
    >>but have good schools Is that why the vast majority of "school decides to teach Creationism in science classes" type stories emerge from flyover country? http://arstechnica.com/search/?ie=UTF-8&q=creationism http://arstechnica.com/search/?ie=UTF-8&q=creationism Sort by date, then check the states. Ohio. Mississippi. Kansas. Idaho. No sir, you do not have good schools compared to the rest of the country.
    - culturestate 10y ago
      Texas, Illinois, Ohio, and Michigan account for 9 of the 25 best school districts in America, according to at least one ranking [1]. There are good and bad schools everywhere, and it's up to families to suss them out; living in the middle of the country does not necessarily mean living in an anti-intellectual backwater. 1. http://www.businessinsider.com/best-school-districts-in-america-2016-1 http://www.businessinsider.com/best-school-districts-in-amer...
    - dionidium 10y ago
      You can't possibly believe your own words. Am I to believe that you think every school in the Midwest teaches creationism? The ignorance and myopia in this thread is staggering.
    - madengr 10y ago
      Sorry, never heard of creationism being taught in schools around here. Although we do have a replica of Lucy in the towns science museum, and I do have a autographed copy of Dawkin's latest book when he came to talk last fall.
- dionidium 10y ago
  The perception today is that, sure, it's hard to make it on the coast, but there are no jobs and there's no culture in the Midwest, so that's out of the question. What this is, more than anything else, is ignorant. I think I understand how it happened. The inner cores of the Midwestern cities that give large metros their names really have been gutted. They were literally ripped through by highways, intentionally segregated, their manufacturing base decimated. They're crumbling. And boy oh boy does this story have legs. It's sort of fun to flip through the destruction porn. Pictures of brick piles where houses once stood titillate. So, it must sound as though entire regions are falling apart. But it's just not so. If you were to do a quick search for information about St. Louis, MO, you'd learn that the city has a paltry median income of about $30k, a dwindling population of about 300k, and a pathetic land area of only 66 miles squared. But the City of St. Louis refers to a very small part of a much larger region, an area myopically bound by voters who in 1876 couldn't imagine much happening in the farmlands beyond those lines. The region today -- much of it on those old farmlands -- has 2.5 million people and a metro-wide median household income of around $55k. This is the true picture of the region, though most descriptions of it are drawn from only its worst parts. The fact is that, for many people, the opportunity in places like California lags far behind the increased cost of living. Lots and lots of regular folks would be far better off relocating to places they've long-ago dismissed without a serious look. Yes, we have winters. And no ocean. But, yes, there's actually culture (of the kind generated everywhere that two and a half million humans live). And good housing. And, most important: you can actually afford it.
  - joe_the_user 10y ago
    If someone is looking the broad area between the coasts, they see: 1. Crumbling ghettos (as you describe) 2. Crumbling non-ghetto rust-belt that's still not pretty 3. Rural areas beset by meth and herion. 4. Vast-scale suburbs with indeed little to no culture and fairly thin on jobs. 5. Areas like the coasts but costing close to the price of the coast - But I'm sure there's good stuff between that. Also, the City Of St. Louis is certainly the limit of the broad St. Louis ghetto, as the Ferguson events clearly shows. The metropolitan area is basically the 2nd or third most dangerous city in the US (behind Detroit and sometimes New Orleans).