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i.e. the only way anyone from my generation gets a house is to inherit it from my parents when they pass on This statement can only be made with a straight fac

i.e. the only way anyone from my generation gets a house is to inherit it from my parents when they pass on This statement can only be made with a straight face by someone who has never been off the coasts. There are 65 million people in the midwest and another 119 million in the South. A majority of those are in areas where cheap housing is the norm.

logfromblammo 10y ago
Yes, homes in the interior of the continent are more affordable. But in my experience, none of the inland cities have a tech-job market robust enough to warrant buying a house with a mortgage, except maybe Chicago. And I wouldn't want to live there again, because of the corruption. So you can easily afford to buy a house, but when you have to move for a new job 3 years later, your equity may just be eaten up by closing costs and market fluctuations, and you might as well have been renting the whole time. There's just nowhere in the US where I feel like I might still be in the same spot 10 years from now. And even if I did inherit a house from my parents, I'd just have to sell it, because their city--my hometown--is absolute crap for tech jobs.
- lygaret 10y ago
  Totally disagree with this: the tech-job market is pretty damn robust in Denver/Boulder, Minneapolis, and St. Louis, to name three that I have some personal experience with. Not to mention Austin, Dallas, Kansas City, etc. SF, NYC, and Boston aren't the only places you can get a job.
  - jdhawk 10y ago
    And conversely, the price of housing has doubled in most of those markets over the last few years (at least Denver, Austin, and DFW - the ones I have direct knowledge of) It might be cheaper than NYC, SF, & Boston - but we're not pulling down 200k+ Salaries for Sr. Engineers here either, its all relative.
- dionidium 10y ago
  I am a programmer in St. Louis. I won't pretend that it's anywhere near the market that larger cities on the coasts are, but there are plenty of jobs to go around. It used to be the case that all of those jobs were at MEGACORP, but that's no longer true. You can find just about whatever you're looking for.
  - logfromblammo 10y ago
    I'm not allowed to look for jobs in St. Louis, due to a non-negotiable spouse veto. It's something about dating someone from there once, and being a Cubs fan.
- ghaff 10y ago
  >>There's just nowhere in the US where I feel like I might still be in the same spot 10 years from now. Yet, funnily enough, the justification one hears frequently for enduring the housing premium of the Bay Area is the number of nearby jobs that make it easy to switch employers every 18 months or so.
- tropo 10y ago
  Hmmm, you need some how-to-manage-living-and-jobs instruction. Wow. Here you go: Step 1 is to get a job. There are jobs all over the country. The concentration may be highest in the tech hot spots, but most of the jobs are elsewhere. Pick some place like Melbourne, FL. Pick a job that has long-term potential. Step 2 is to fly out there and look at rentals. Pick one. Move. Step 3 is to start looking for a home, casually at first. You want to learn about neighborhoods and traffic jams. Meanwhile, see how you like your new job. If the job doesn't work out, go back to step 1. If you need more time to figure out the local housing situation, rent for another year. Also, if you own a house in a different part of the country, get it sold. Step 4 is you buy the house. Move. Hopefully you can work there for decades. I've done a decade already. When things start to go sour, go back to step 1. Sometimes you may lose on the "closing costs and market fluctuations", but remember that it's no big deal when the houses are cheap.
  - logfromblammo 10y ago
    You are likely being downvoted because this seems very condescending and patronizing. There are several statements that elide over critical details. You could literally write entire books on these topics: - Pick a job that has long-term potential. - If you own a house ... get it sold. - When things go sour, go back to step 1. - It's no big deal when the houses are cheap. Jobs with "long-term potential" went into decline decades ago. I have already held more positions than both of my parents, combined, over their entire careers, from graduation to retirement. My sister can say the same. Our spouses can, too. Everybody I know is an "at will" employee, and every last one of us is afraid of sudden unemployment. Remember 2008? I do. There's nothing quite like dropping $50k as a down payment and then being unable to sell when you really need to, because your note-holder won't even consider taking a little haircut with a short sale--which you would have to do, because all your equity is gone. Step 1 is BS. How many articles pop up on HN about how broken tech hiring is? I would literally rather help my current boss bury a dead hooker in the woods (for the paying customer, of course) than deal with more whiteboard interviews and homework assignments and sudden ceasing of all communication. When houses are cheap, usually rent is, too. But even where houses are "cheap", they are often still an over-unity multiple of the local median income, and require a lot of long-term debt to purchase. For most people in the US, a house is the most expensive thing they will ever even aspire to owning.
jonlucc 10y ago
I live in the Midwest, and I am likely to inherit my first home. Housing is cheap relative to the coasts, but pay is lower, and student loans aren't based on my wages.
- c0nducktr 10y ago
  I'll second this. Homes might be cheaper, but the rest of our bills aren't, and salaries are much lower on average.
  - dionidium 10y ago
    Homes might be cheaper, but the rest of our bills aren't The difference in housing is so huge that it sometimes feels like it swallows everything else. But, make no mistake, everything is cheaper here. Use a tool like this for some comparisons: http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/savings/moving-cost-of-living-calculator.aspx http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/savings/moving-cost-of-l...
    - Grishnakh 10y ago
      No, it isn't. Walmart or any other nationwide retailer isn't going to give you lower prices on TVs or clothes or groceries because you're in a low cost-of-living area. It all costs the same, nationwide. Same goes for anything online. ISP/telecom costs are not any lower in the midwest. Gasoline is not significantly cheaper. Cars cost the same no matter where you buy them. What else is left? I suppose you can get away with paying someone less to mow your lawn there, but that's about it.
      - flubert 10y ago
        I wonder who can find heat maps for the price of things like milk, bread, electricity, similar to this map for gasoline: http://www.gasbuddy.com/GasPriceMap?z=4 http://www.gasbuddy.com/GasPriceMap?z=4
      - dionidium 10y ago
refurb 10y ago
Thank you! There is a bit of coastal bubble going on in this conversation. I made $50K per year when I graduated and bought a house about a year later. $170K for a new house in a nice neighborhood. The total house payment was sub $1000. That's typical when you get out of the big cities on the coast.
- overgryphon 10y ago
  It's not typical for people to make 50k after college these days.
  - antisthenes 10y ago
    Especially in an area where houses cost $170k The vast majority of my peers actually do NOT make $50k - and we are all on the East coast, where a house would cost you ~$300k minimum for something that wouldn't require extensive repairs. Sometimes people need a good kick up their arse to be able to see outside of their bubble.

logfromblammo 10y ago

Yes, homes in the interior of the continent are more affordable. But in my experience, none of the inland cities have a tech-job market robust enough to warrant buying a house with a mortgage, except maybe Chicago. And I wouldn't want to live there again, because of the corruption. So you can easily afford to buy a house, but when you have to move for a new job 3 years later, your equity may just be eaten up by closing costs and market fluctuations, and you might as well have been renting the whole time. There's just nowhere in the US where I feel like I might still be in the same spot 10 years from now. And even if I did inherit a house from my parents, I'd just have to sell it, because their city--my hometown--is absolute crap for tech jobs.

lygaret 10y ago
Totally disagree with this: the tech-job market is pretty damn robust in Denver/Boulder, Minneapolis, and St. Louis, to name three that I have some personal experience with. Not to mention Austin, Dallas, Kansas City, etc. SF, NYC, and Boston aren't the only places you can get a job.
- jdhawk 10y ago
  And conversely, the price of housing has doubled in most of those markets over the last few years (at least Denver, Austin, and DFW - the ones I have direct knowledge of) It might be cheaper than NYC, SF, & Boston - but we're not pulling down 200k+ Salaries for Sr. Engineers here either, its all relative.
dionidium 10y ago
I am a programmer in St. Louis. I won't pretend that it's anywhere near the market that larger cities on the coasts are, but there are plenty of jobs to go around. It used to be the case that all of those jobs were at MEGACORP, but that's no longer true. You can find just about whatever you're looking for.
- logfromblammo 10y ago
  I'm not allowed to look for jobs in St. Louis, due to a non-negotiable spouse veto. It's something about dating someone from there once, and being a Cubs fan.
ghaff 10y ago
>>There's just nowhere in the US where I feel like I might still be in the same spot 10 years from now. Yet, funnily enough, the justification one hears frequently for enduring the housing premium of the Bay Area is the number of nearby jobs that make it easy to switch employers every 18 months or so.
tropo 10y ago
Hmmm, you need some how-to-manage-living-and-jobs instruction. Wow. Here you go: Step 1 is to get a job. There are jobs all over the country. The concentration may be highest in the tech hot spots, but most of the jobs are elsewhere. Pick some place like Melbourne, FL. Pick a job that has long-term potential. Step 2 is to fly out there and look at rentals. Pick one. Move. Step 3 is to start looking for a home, casually at first. You want to learn about neighborhoods and traffic jams. Meanwhile, see how you like your new job. If the job doesn't work out, go back to step 1. If you need more time to figure out the local housing situation, rent for another year. Also, if you own a house in a different part of the country, get it sold. Step 4 is you buy the house. Move. Hopefully you can work there for decades. I've done a decade already. When things start to go sour, go back to step 1. Sometimes you may lose on the "closing costs and market fluctuations", but remember that it's no big deal when the houses are cheap.
- logfromblammo 10y ago
  You are likely being downvoted because this seems very condescending and patronizing. There are several statements that elide over critical details. You could literally write entire books on these topics: - Pick a job that has long-term potential. - If you own a house ... get it sold. - When things go sour, go back to step 1. - It's no big deal when the houses are cheap. Jobs with "long-term potential" went into decline decades ago. I have already held more positions than both of my parents, combined, over their entire careers, from graduation to retirement. My sister can say the same. Our spouses can, too. Everybody I know is an "at will" employee, and every last one of us is afraid of sudden unemployment. Remember 2008? I do. There's nothing quite like dropping $50k as a down payment and then being unable to sell when you really need to, because your note-holder won't even consider taking a little haircut with a short sale--which you would have to do, because all your equity is gone. Step 1 is BS. How many articles pop up on HN about how broken tech hiring is? I would literally rather help my current boss bury a dead hooker in the woods (for the paying customer, of course) than deal with more whiteboard interviews and homework assignments and sudden ceasing of all communication. When houses are cheap, usually rent is, too. But even where houses are "cheap", they are often still an over-unity multiple of the local median income, and require a lot of long-term debt to purchase. For most people in the US, a house is the most expensive thing they will ever even aspire to owning.

jonlucc 10y ago

I live in the Midwest, and I am likely to inherit my first home. Housing is cheap relative to the coasts, but pay is lower, and student loans aren't based on my wages.

c0nducktr 10y ago
I'll second this. Homes might be cheaper, but the rest of our bills aren't, and salaries are much lower on average.
- dionidium 10y ago
  Homes might be cheaper, but the rest of our bills aren't The difference in housing is so huge that it sometimes feels like it swallows everything else. But, make no mistake, everything is cheaper here. Use a tool like this for some comparisons: http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/savings/moving-cost-of-living-calculator.aspx http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/savings/moving-cost-of-l...
  - Grishnakh 10y ago
    No, it isn't. Walmart or any other nationwide retailer isn't going to give you lower prices on TVs or clothes or groceries because you're in a low cost-of-living area. It all costs the same, nationwide. Same goes for anything online. ISP/telecom costs are not any lower in the midwest. Gasoline is not significantly cheaper. Cars cost the same no matter where you buy them. What else is left? I suppose you can get away with paying someone less to mow your lawn there, but that's about it.
    - flubert 10y ago
      I wonder who can find heat maps for the price of things like milk, bread, electricity, similar to this map for gasoline: http://www.gasbuddy.com/GasPriceMap?z=4 http://www.gasbuddy.com/GasPriceMap?z=4
    - dionidium 10y ago

refurb 10y ago

Thank you! There is a bit of coastal bubble going on in this conversation. I made $50K per year when I graduated and bought a house about a year later. $170K for a new house in a nice neighborhood. The total house payment was sub $1000. That's typical when you get out of the big cities on the coast.

overgryphon 10y ago
It's not typical for people to make 50k after college these days.
- antisthenes 10y ago
  Especially in an area where houses cost $170k The vast majority of my peers actually do NOT make $50k - and we are all on the East coast, where a house would cost you ~$300k minimum for something that wouldn't require extensive repairs. Sometimes people need a good kick up their arse to be able to see outside of their bubble.