8 ms·

It's not the most eloquent phrasing. I think what they're trying to say is "People find legalistic tax-dodging unethical, and they're sick of rich people and bi

It's not the most eloquent phrasing. I think what they're trying to say is "People find legalistic tax-dodging unethical, and they're sick of rich people and big companies getting away with it."

derekp7 10y ago
In other words, they found a bug in the way the law is written, and they are exploiting that flaw to their benefit.
- batmansmk 10y ago
  Yes, and it is forbidden, as in France what matters is the spirit of the law and not the way it is expressed. It helps keeping common sense upfront; keeping readable and compact text laws.
  - ptaipale 10y ago
    That sounds somewhat scary. The law is not what is written, but what someone says is the "spirit" of it? The end result is going to depend on who gets to interpret the spirit, and this idea is frightening.
    - derekp7 10y ago
      Isn't that almost how laws in the US actually work in practice? It isn't about what is written, but how it is interpreted by a judge, and possibly re-interpreted upon appeal(s)? So you have the written law, but also case law on top of it (so to figure out if you are breaking the law, you need to see how your situation compares to the possibly hundreds of somewhat similar but possibly subtly different cases that have already been decided).
lloyd-christmas 10y ago
Solution: Get rid of tax law as one of the major sub-industries of the legal profession. When I no longer need a lawyer to submit my taxes, I'll start caring about corporate tax loopholes.
- ciaranm 10y ago
  Most people in Europe don't need Lawyers to submit their taxes. In fact, until I started my own company (UK) - I didn't 'submit' taxes. It was calculated (and taken) automatically based on my salary and otherwise declared income.
  - charlesdm 10y ago
    This depends a lot on the country. For example: I'd say most self employed people in Belgium use an accountant to file their taxes. Some (a subset) of those also have a tax lawyer who helps them optimise certain things. Self employed people (i.e. entrepreneurs) who make decent money will have a tax lawyer, because inevitably, you'll bump into an unfriendly tax collector somewhere down the road.
    - emp_zealoth 10y ago
      From my experiences with self-employed people (doctors, hundreds of them - im in an MD-motorcycle club) they will try to write off anything and everything and the accountants are there to talk them out of it
      - charlesdm 10y ago
        That's only because those tax deductions are often accepted. If one can write off an entire holiday home with a reasonable chance of success, say 80%, then you'd be crazy not to try. If countries don't want that, they should change their laws. In some higher tax countries, a lot of things are technically allowed, because that way they can tax "the little man" a lot and not tax higher earners as much (i.e. doctors, notaries, high earning entrepreneurs, etc).
    - Xylakant 10y ago
      Taxes for self employed people are much more complicated than taxes for salaried employees. Everywhere that I know, taxes from salaries are automatically withheld by the employer - those taxes have probably been calculated by a tax accountant in the first place. There's practically no way you'd need to pay extra taxes if your only income is your salary, so you can opt out of filing taxes. For self-employed people there are many more rules and regulations: How to write off which kind of cost and purchase, filing VAT if required, etc. so that's already cost efficient if you hire someone qualified.
charlesdm 10y ago
So let's raid the place. Excellent idea. Which judge is going to issue a judgement against Google if they're not breaking any tax laws? I would expect any issues to pop up quite fast during a routine audit of their accounts. This almost feels like blackmail. Pay up, or we'll keep harassing you, raiding your offices etc.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
JoshTriplett 10y ago
If you don't like the tax law as written, change it. Until then, following the law as written is perfectly reasonable.

It's not the most eloquent phrasing. I think what they're trying to say is "People find legalistic tax-dodging unethical, and they're sick of rich people and big companies getting away with it."

derekp7 10y ago

In other words, they found a bug in the way the law is written, and they are exploiting that flaw to their benefit.

batmansmk 10y ago
Yes, and it is forbidden, as in France what matters is the spirit of the law and not the way it is expressed. It helps keeping common sense upfront; keeping readable and compact text laws.
- ptaipale 10y ago
  That sounds somewhat scary. The law is not what is written, but what someone says is the "spirit" of it? The end result is going to depend on who gets to interpret the spirit, and this idea is frightening.
  - derekp7 10y ago
    Isn't that almost how laws in the US actually work in practice? It isn't about what is written, but how it is interpreted by a judge, and possibly re-interpreted upon appeal(s)? So you have the written law, but also case law on top of it (so to figure out if you are breaking the law, you need to see how your situation compares to the possibly hundreds of somewhat similar but possibly subtly different cases that have already been decided).

lloyd-christmas 10y ago

Solution: Get rid of tax law as one of the major sub-industries of the legal profession. When I no longer need a lawyer to submit my taxes, I'll start caring about corporate tax loopholes.

ciaranm 10y ago
Most people in Europe don't need Lawyers to submit their taxes. In fact, until I started my own company (UK) - I didn't 'submit' taxes. It was calculated (and taken) automatically based on my salary and otherwise declared income.
- charlesdm 10y ago
  This depends a lot on the country. For example: I'd say most self employed people in Belgium use an accountant to file their taxes. Some (a subset) of those also have a tax lawyer who helps them optimise certain things. Self employed people (i.e. entrepreneurs) who make decent money will have a tax lawyer, because inevitably, you'll bump into an unfriendly tax collector somewhere down the road.
  - emp_zealoth 10y ago
    From my experiences with self-employed people (doctors, hundreds of them - im in an MD-motorcycle club) they will try to write off anything and everything and the accountants are there to talk them out of it
    - charlesdm 10y ago
      That's only because those tax deductions are often accepted. If one can write off an entire holiday home with a reasonable chance of success, say 80%, then you'd be crazy not to try. If countries don't want that, they should change their laws. In some higher tax countries, a lot of things are technically allowed, because that way they can tax "the little man" a lot and not tax higher earners as much (i.e. doctors, notaries, high earning entrepreneurs, etc).
  - Xylakant 10y ago
    Taxes for self employed people are much more complicated than taxes for salaried employees. Everywhere that I know, taxes from salaries are automatically withheld by the employer - those taxes have probably been calculated by a tax accountant in the first place. There's practically no way you'd need to pay extra taxes if your only income is your salary, so you can opt out of filing taxes. For self-employed people there are many more rules and regulations: How to write off which kind of cost and purchase, filing VAT if required, etc. so that's already cost efficient if you hire someone qualified.

charlesdm 10y ago

So let's raid the place. Excellent idea. Which judge is going to issue a judgement against Google if they're not breaking any tax laws? I would expect any issues to pop up quite fast during a routine audit of their accounts. This almost feels like blackmail. Pay up, or we'll keep harassing you, raiding your offices etc.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

JoshTriplett 10y ago

If you don't like the tax law as written, change it. Until then, following the law as written is perfectly reasonable.