4 ms·

> China's firewall is largely constructed to create technology transfer towards China. That's been a huge effect of the GFW, but is there material indicating i

by eob 10y ago

> China's firewall is largely constructed to create technology transfer towards China. That's been a huge effect of the GFW, but is there material indicating it was the original purpose? My understanding was that much of the explosion in Chinese censorship tech happened as a way to prevent social media from gaining control over the news cycle. (i.e., when a train wreck occurs, the Party prefers stick-to-the-facts news coverage over whose-to-blame social media mobs)

zhte415 10y ago
Original purpose? Multifaceted, but certainly not just internet focused, it was a part of a much bigger thing (Golden Shield) that involves submitting photocopies of IDs to get a mobile phone SIM to an urban alley-way with CCTV and a cartoon of a friendly cop pasted on the wall. >when a train wreck occurs, the Party prefers stick-to-the-facts news coverage over whose-to-blame social media mobs combating whose-to-blame scaremongering isn't in the GFW's scope, as in regarding blocking foreign access, but is in the grey area with the rest of Golden Shield, such as requiring ICP licences in order to host a website. Today, however, Golden Shield is pretty mature, high-speed train-wrecks being covered by diggers is generally accepted as not OK, and most of the action happens on WeChat anyway with gov't ID papers issued to get a SIM, therefore a number, therefore a WeChat account. A huge amount of fraud happens on WeChat, despite these paperwork needs.
- thaumasiotes 10y ago
  > a much bigger thing (Golden Shield) that involves submitting photocopies of IDs to get a mobile phone SIM I can assure you this is not current Chinese policy.
  - zhte415 10y ago
    >> a much bigger thing (Golden Shield) that involves submitting photocopies of IDs to get a mobile phone SIM > I can assure you this is not current Chinese policy. It is the law: to get a SIM card, must submit ID card scan or passport scan.
    - ajdlinux 10y ago
      Last time I was in China (late 2014) I had to provide a photocopy of my Australian passport to obtain a China Mobile SIM. Maybe it's changed since then, but I certainly can't imagine them being any more liberal than Australia, where you are required to submit a driver's licence number or a similar level of identity verification in order to activate a prepaid SIM. That said, I can't imagine it being too hard to bribe someone to get a SIM not linked to an ID if you really wanted...
      - thaumasiotes 10y ago
        You can easily buy a mobile SIM on the street without showing ID. No bribing involved.
    - malka 10y ago
      The law, and how it is applied are 2 different things. Especially in an authoritarian state.
    - TeMPOraL 10y ago
      Half a year ago in Shenzhen I did manage to buy a prepaid SIM card from a street vendor without showing any kind of identification whatsoever. I've heard about that law, and I know my friends had to show their passports to get SIM cards, but apparently the law isn't obeyed that much. Mind you - it wasn't some shady vendor, it was a random electronics store on a commercial street.
      - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
        They threaten to shutdown your SIM eventually if they don't have an ID#/passport associated with it. But they are very bad about follow through.
        TeMPOraL 10y ago
        I see. Well, it only had to last a month :).
hawkice 10y ago
This is an odd idea. I remember, after the explosions in Tianjin, the only place to find reasonably up-to-date information was on Chinese social media. The government wasn't saying much of anything, facts or blame-wise. Social media eventually sussed out (1) that there was massive negligence, which the government confirmed months later, and (2) one of the companies who was handling way more dangerous chemicals than it should have was operated by shadow-CEOs and may have been getting around regulations by being controlled by a former Tianjin dock safety manager. I still have no idea if the second one was ever proven, but I suspect it's true. And if censorship was meant to prevent blame-game stuff, there's no way so many people would have used social media to figure that out (on the other hand, this is one of those scenarios where the people and the government are generally in agreement -- the people who let that happen were never going to get any leniency from the government).
allemagne 10y ago
>when a train wreck occurs, the Party prefers stick-to-the-facts news coverage over whose-to-blame social media mobs Why would you assume this, when far more self-interested motives seem obvious?

by eob 10y ago

zhte415 10y ago

Original purpose? Multifaceted, but certainly not just internet focused, it was a part of a much bigger thing (Golden Shield) that involves submitting photocopies of IDs to get a mobile phone SIM to an urban alley-way with CCTV and a cartoon of a friendly cop pasted on the wall. >when a train wreck occurs, the Party prefers stick-to-the-facts news coverage over whose-to-blame social media mobs combating whose-to-blame scaremongering isn't in the GFW's scope, as in regarding blocking foreign access, but is in the grey area with the rest of Golden Shield, such as requiring ICP licences in order to host a website. Today, however, Golden Shield is pretty mature, high-speed train-wrecks being covered by diggers is generally accepted as not OK, and most of the action happens on WeChat anyway with gov't ID papers issued to get a SIM, therefore a number, therefore a WeChat account. A huge amount of fraud happens on WeChat, despite these paperwork needs.

thaumasiotes 10y ago
> a much bigger thing (Golden Shield) that involves submitting photocopies of IDs to get a mobile phone SIM I can assure you this is not current Chinese policy.
- zhte415 10y ago
  >> a much bigger thing (Golden Shield) that involves submitting photocopies of IDs to get a mobile phone SIM > I can assure you this is not current Chinese policy. It is the law: to get a SIM card, must submit ID card scan or passport scan.
  - ajdlinux 10y ago
    Last time I was in China (late 2014) I had to provide a photocopy of my Australian passport to obtain a China Mobile SIM. Maybe it's changed since then, but I certainly can't imagine them being any more liberal than Australia, where you are required to submit a driver's licence number or a similar level of identity verification in order to activate a prepaid SIM. That said, I can't imagine it being too hard to bribe someone to get a SIM not linked to an ID if you really wanted...
    - thaumasiotes 10y ago
      You can easily buy a mobile SIM on the street without showing ID. No bribing involved.
  - malka 10y ago
    The law, and how it is applied are 2 different things. Especially in an authoritarian state.
  - TeMPOraL 10y ago
    Half a year ago in Shenzhen I did manage to buy a prepaid SIM card from a street vendor without showing any kind of identification whatsoever. I've heard about that law, and I know my friends had to show their passports to get SIM cards, but apparently the law isn't obeyed that much. Mind you - it wasn't some shady vendor, it was a random electronics store on a commercial street.
    - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
      They threaten to shutdown your SIM eventually if they don't have an ID#/passport associated with it. But they are very bad about follow through.
      - TeMPOraL 10y ago
        I see. Well, it only had to last a month :).

hawkice 10y ago

This is an odd idea. I remember, after the explosions in Tianjin, the only place to find reasonably up-to-date information was on Chinese social media. The government wasn't saying much of anything, facts or blame-wise. Social media eventually sussed out (1) that there was massive negligence, which the government confirmed months later, and (2) one of the companies who was handling way more dangerous chemicals than it should have was operated by shadow-CEOs and may have been getting around regulations by being controlled by a former Tianjin dock safety manager. I still have no idea if the second one was ever proven, but I suspect it's true. And if censorship was meant to prevent blame-game stuff, there's no way so many people would have used social media to figure that out (on the other hand, this is one of those scenarios where the people and the government are generally in agreement -- the people who let that happen were never going to get any leniency from the government).

allemagne 10y ago

>when a train wreck occurs, the Party prefers stick-to-the-facts news coverage over whose-to-blame social media mobs Why would you assume this, when far more self-interested motives seem obvious?