6 ms·

If the mission is feeding starving children, or curing cancer, or public service, then yes, I want people who are motivated by the mission. But usually the mis

by LargeWu 10y ago

If the mission is feeding starving children, or curing cancer, or public service, then yes, I want people who are motivated by the mission. But usually the mission, the real mission, is to make the founders exceptionally wealthy, and forgive me if that doesn't get me out of bed in the morning.

andybak 10y ago
This man speaks the truth. :-) I think it's a lost battle but I used to rage whenever I saw a company talk about their 'Vision'. Unless you're a poet, religious mystic or philosopher king - then you're being pretentious and grandiose.
- tenkabuto 10y ago
  Assuming that I am a cash-strapped philosopher king with a grand vision for my business, how might I sway people to take the vision seriously and work towards the fulfillment of the vision?
  - LargeWu 10y ago
    I'm assuming the vision you're trying to sell is to make the philosopher king wealthy. (Your stated vision is probably irrelevant.) You need to make your employees' incentives align with that proposition.
    - tenkabuto 10y ago
      Oh OK. What if we assumed that the vision is not concerned with making me, the philosopher king, wealthy?
crdoconnor 10y ago
>If the mission is feeding starving children, or curing cancer, or public service You're typically expected to take a pay cut if you're doing any of these.
- jazzyk 10y ago
  Public service pay cuts? Not really. This is for CA, but other states are not too far off. http://publicpay.ca.gov/ http://publicpay.ca.gov/ And don't forget life-long pensions at 80% salary. How many distinguished engineers make anywhere close to these amounts (whether public or private)? Close to zero.
  - cortesoft 10y ago
    80k was the top bracket? I am pretty sure most developers in California make a lot more than that, especially top ones.
    - jazzyk 10y ago
      Select "100 top salaries"
      - monknomo 10y ago
        But those seem mostly like chief investment officers, CEOs, doctors, dentists and surgeons... I mean, public service can pay well if you are a commissioner or head of a for-profit part of public service. I'm not sure there is much of a comparison to be made for software developers, though.
        jazzyk 10y ago
        I was just pointing out that public service can pay as well as private sector - if not better (pensions at 80% pay!).
        monknomo 10y ago
        Except for police and the already retired I don't think you see a lot of pensions at 80% pay anymore. FERS gives you 1.1%years of servicehigh 3 average salary, which is about 40% salary for a lifetime of service. The NYPD give 2.1%years of serviceaverage salary and early retirement at 20 years of service (less 50% social security upon that kicking in) which is a hell of a good deal, but hardly representative of what most government workers get. I think they are probably among the only 80% pay. You also end up with the (generally state) government worker problem of the government just deciding that paying your pension is expensive, and then having it reduced or removed. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
kisna72 10y ago
Even if the mission is to cure cancer, thats the worst reason to not pay people well. Those are the most difficult problems, and you definitely need the best people to solve the hardest problems. If the idea is to pay people really poor because that problem is so difficult, I think its a bad idea and simply taking advantage of people, not to mention the best people will go solve other problems that pay them well.
- Loughla 10y ago
  This is the problem with education (and all non-profits for that matter). 1. People work in education because they love the work, not the money. 2. We don't need to pay educators well because they're not the tops in their fields. 3. We can't recruit top candidates because the pay is shit. 4. Rinse, repeat.
FireBeyond 10y ago
"We want to change the world, by finding a more efficient way to bike courier organic Nicaraguan coffee beans to your doorstep in the Mission or SoMa."
- NoMoreNicksLeft 10y ago
  My god, this is genius. Let me throw investment money at you. Just be sure not to pay the programmers more than $11/hour.
fu9ar 10y ago
Human service workers, biomedical researchers, and etc. still need to make a living too. The problem is that a small sector of the people in the world are being ridiculously greedy.

by LargeWu 10y ago

andybak 10y ago

This man speaks the truth. :-) I think it's a lost battle but I used to rage whenever I saw a company talk about their 'Vision'. Unless you're a poet, religious mystic or philosopher king - then you're being pretentious and grandiose.

tenkabuto 10y ago
Assuming that I am a cash-strapped philosopher king with a grand vision for my business, how might I sway people to take the vision seriously and work towards the fulfillment of the vision?
- LargeWu 10y ago
  I'm assuming the vision you're trying to sell is to make the philosopher king wealthy. (Your stated vision is probably irrelevant.) You need to make your employees' incentives align with that proposition.
  - tenkabuto 10y ago
    Oh OK. What if we assumed that the vision is not concerned with making me, the philosopher king, wealthy?

crdoconnor 10y ago

>If the mission is feeding starving children, or curing cancer, or public service You're typically expected to take a pay cut if you're doing any of these.

jazzyk 10y ago
Public service pay cuts? Not really. This is for CA, but other states are not too far off. http://publicpay.ca.gov/ http://publicpay.ca.gov/ And don't forget life-long pensions at 80% salary. How many distinguished engineers make anywhere close to these amounts (whether public or private)? Close to zero.
- cortesoft 10y ago
  80k was the top bracket? I am pretty sure most developers in California make a lot more than that, especially top ones.
  - jazzyk 10y ago
    Select "100 top salaries"
    - monknomo 10y ago
      But those seem mostly like chief investment officers, CEOs, doctors, dentists and surgeons... I mean, public service can pay well if you are a commissioner or head of a for-profit part of public service. I'm not sure there is much of a comparison to be made for software developers, though.
      - jazzyk 10y ago
        I was just pointing out that public service can pay as well as private sector - if not better (pensions at 80% pay!).
        monknomo 10y ago
        Except for police and the already retired I don't think you see a lot of pensions at 80% pay anymore. FERS gives you 1.1%years of servicehigh 3 average salary, which is about 40% salary for a lifetime of service. The NYPD give 2.1%years of serviceaverage salary and early retirement at 20 years of service (less 50% social security upon that kicking in) which is a hell of a good deal, but hardly representative of what most government workers get. I think they are probably among the only 80% pay. You also end up with the (generally state) government worker problem of the government just deciding that paying your pension is expensive, and then having it reduced or removed. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

kisna72 10y ago

Even if the mission is to cure cancer, thats the worst reason to not pay people well. Those are the most difficult problems, and you definitely need the best people to solve the hardest problems. If the idea is to pay people really poor because that problem is so difficult, I think its a bad idea and simply taking advantage of people, not to mention the best people will go solve other problems that pay them well.

Loughla 10y ago
This is the problem with education (and all non-profits for that matter). 1. People work in education because they love the work, not the money. 2. We don't need to pay educators well because they're not the tops in their fields. 3. We can't recruit top candidates because the pay is shit. 4. Rinse, repeat.

FireBeyond 10y ago

"We want to change the world, by finding a more efficient way to bike courier organic Nicaraguan coffee beans to your doorstep in the Mission or SoMa."

NoMoreNicksLeft 10y ago
My god, this is genius. Let me throw investment money at you. Just be sure not to pay the programmers more than $11/hour.

fu9ar 10y ago

Human service workers, biomedical researchers, and etc. still need to make a living too. The problem is that a small sector of the people in the world are being ridiculously greedy.