6 ms·

Hearthstone fixed this mana issue by having the mana automatically increase by 1 each turn, up to 10. This means that every card you draw will be a spell you ca

by timje1 10y ago

Hearthstone fixed this mana issue by having the mana automatically increase by 1 each turn, up to 10. This means that every card you draw will be a spell you can cast or a minion you can play - you at least get to play 'hearthstone' during the match.

Agentlien 10y ago
The link I provided as reference was actually a reply to this very suggestion. It's something I found interesting when trying Hearthstone, but it does remove a lot of the interesting tactical decisions involved in playing cards which require different colors of mana. Another interesting idea was a format which someone suggested[1] in which any non-land card can be played as if it were a land producing colorless mana and any land has cycling 1 (for 1 mana you can discard it and draw a new card). I found this a fascinating idea, but I feel like this would completely wreck the balance of the game, especially when played with decks specifically built to abuse these new rules. [1]: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/546543 http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-...
eterm 10y ago
They also went with 30 card decks (max 2 each card) rather than 60 card decks (max 4 each type) which further reduces variance of hands. Top-decking is still very real in both games, sometimes you just need that 1 card to win or you'll lose next turn.
- Bartweiss 10y ago
  Unfortunately, Hearthstone's card design has aggressively worked against their randomness-mitigation in the game structure. In their search for 'dramatic' cards, they've started introducing "triggers on draw" effects, "get a random creature from your deck" effects (maybe it'll cost 2 mana, maybe 10!), and my favorite - "play this card, then shuffle it back, then play it again, then all your creatures become different ones". The card designers have consistently chosen exciting events over stable gameplay, to the point where it's far more random than MTG.
  - Agentlien 10y ago
    I do agree about the general feeling that Hearthstone is a bit too random in odd and spectacular ways. However, could you expand on the "triggers on draw" comment? Which cards do this in a bad way? I know there are Magic cards with effects which trigger whenever a player draws a card, without harming the game.
    - shawabawa3 10y ago
      > I know there are Magic cards with effects which trigger whenever a player draws a card The cards he's talking about trigger when they're drawn, not when another card is drawn while they're in play. For example, Flame Leviathan[1] which deals 2 damage to all minions when drawn. Or Iron Juggernaut [2], which shuffles a 'mine' into the opponents deck, dealing 10 damage when drawn (personally I think this one's ok, as at least you can plan to mitigate it most of the time) [1] http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/12290-flame-leviathan [2] http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/12295-iron-juggernaut
      - Bartweiss 10y ago
        Exactly it, thanks. I don't really object to Juggernaut - I've seen several other deckbuilding games with similar effects, it's something you can plan for (and in some games, avert with lookahead and reshuffles). Flame Leviathan annoys me a lot, though - it's a complete board rebalance that neither player can anticipate. It's not even a good card (I wouldn't expect to see it high on the ladder) but it's aggravating to have such high variance on a zero-mana outcome.
  - spdustin 10y ago
    Sure, there are decks where you must pray to RNGesus that you get the effect you're looking for. Those decks will not get you far up the ladder, however. Nearly every player above Rank 10 is using a predictable deck. Elise/map/monkey isn't a game-winning card. Also, if you're still seeing top decking in Hearthstone, you haven't progressed enough in the ranks to see the long-term players. There is rarely any top decking going on past even rank 15.

by timje1 10y ago

Agentlien 10y ago

The link I provided as reference was actually a reply to this very suggestion. It's something I found interesting when trying Hearthstone, but it does remove a lot of the interesting tactical decisions involved in playing cards which require different colors of mana. Another interesting idea was a format which someone suggested[1] in which any non-land card can be played as if it were a land producing colorless mana and any land has cycling 1 (for 1 mana you can discard it and draw a new card). I found this a fascinating idea, but I feel like this would completely wreck the balance of the game, especially when played with decks specifically built to abuse these new rules. [1]: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/546543 http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-...

eterm 10y ago

They also went with 30 card decks (max 2 each card) rather than 60 card decks (max 4 each type) which further reduces variance of hands. Top-decking is still very real in both games, sometimes you just need that 1 card to win or you'll lose next turn.

Bartweiss 10y ago
Unfortunately, Hearthstone's card design has aggressively worked against their randomness-mitigation in the game structure. In their search for 'dramatic' cards, they've started introducing "triggers on draw" effects, "get a random creature from your deck" effects (maybe it'll cost 2 mana, maybe 10!), and my favorite - "play this card, then shuffle it back, then play it again, then all your creatures become different ones". The card designers have consistently chosen exciting events over stable gameplay, to the point where it's far more random than MTG.
- Agentlien 10y ago
  I do agree about the general feeling that Hearthstone is a bit too random in odd and spectacular ways. However, could you expand on the "triggers on draw" comment? Which cards do this in a bad way? I know there are Magic cards with effects which trigger whenever a player draws a card, without harming the game.
  - shawabawa3 10y ago
    > I know there are Magic cards with effects which trigger whenever a player draws a card The cards he's talking about trigger when they're drawn, not when another card is drawn while they're in play. For example, Flame Leviathan[1] which deals 2 damage to all minions when drawn. Or Iron Juggernaut [2], which shuffles a 'mine' into the opponents deck, dealing 10 damage when drawn (personally I think this one's ok, as at least you can plan to mitigate it most of the time) [1] http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/12290-flame-leviathan [2] http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/12295-iron-juggernaut
    - Bartweiss 10y ago
      Exactly it, thanks. I don't really object to Juggernaut - I've seen several other deckbuilding games with similar effects, it's something you can plan for (and in some games, avert with lookahead and reshuffles). Flame Leviathan annoys me a lot, though - it's a complete board rebalance that neither player can anticipate. It's not even a good card (I wouldn't expect to see it high on the ladder) but it's aggravating to have such high variance on a zero-mana outcome.
- spdustin 10y ago
  Sure, there are decks where you must pray to RNGesus that you get the effect you're looking for. Those decks will not get you far up the ladder, however. Nearly every player above Rank 10 is using a predictable deck. Elise/map/monkey isn't a game-winning card. Also, if you're still seeing top decking in Hearthstone, you haven't progressed enough in the ranks to see the long-term players. There is rarely any top decking going on past even rank 15.