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Thanks for correcting the poster. The US traditionally was very isolationist. After world war one we became more involved in international affairs, and dominant

by jfoutz 10y ago

Thanks for correcting the poster. The US traditionally was very isolationist. After world war one we became more involved in international affairs, and dominant after ww2. We're in an odd time. in the mid 20th century lots and lots of americans had been around the world, because of the wars. But those generations have almost died off. Very few americans have first hand experience with other cultures. I think the general population avoids thinking about other cultures. Please don't take it personally. It's ignorance. Perceptions are built around these weird media effects from the news. Treat us like puppies or children. it's not malice, we just don't know any better.

augustnagro 10y ago
Speak for yourself. The Turkish man you replied to wanted to correct an inaccurate stereotype about Turkish culture. Your comment perpetuates the stereotype that Americans are uneducated on global affairs. This may be true for some, but saying that all Americans should be treated like "puppies" because they "don't know any better" is a huge insult.
- wpietri 10y ago
  As an American myself, I would consider it fair to say that Americans are relatively uneducated on global affairs. Do you have some data suggesting otherwise? Also, I think you've confused a general with a universal. I don't think he was saying that "all Americans" don't know better, just that when confronted with dumb statements it's better to presume ignorance than malice. As an example, National Geographic did a survey in 2002, and young Americans came in second to last: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/11/1120_021120_GeoRoperSurvey.html http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/11/1120_021120_... "About 11 percent of young citizens of the U.S. couldn't even locate the U.S. on a map. The Pacific Ocean's location was a mystery to 29 percent; Japan, to 58 percent; France, to 65 percent; and the United Kingdom, to 69 percent." On the one hand, I find this a bit appalling. On the other, I can't totally blame people; America is big enough and far enough from everything else that relatively few Americans ever leave the country, and those who do mostly stay on the continent. So I don't see a "assume ignorance, not malice" posture as an insult; it's mostly what I do myself.
  - aninhumer 10y ago
    >About 11 percent of young citizens of the U.S. couldn't even locate the U.S. on a map. This seems particularly bizarre, because even if someone hasn't learned world geography, surely they've seen a map of the US in various contexts, and can recognise its shape?
    - wpietri 10y ago
      That would be fun to research, but my guess: if you showed them the shape of various countries, more people could pick out the right shape. But that shape cuts off Canada and Mexico in ways that are essentially arbitrary, so if they're keying on those edges, or on the grid-of-states shapes, they could still struggle with a satellite photo. My guess is that this number would be significantly better today because people interact a lot more with world maps when they accidentally zoom out on, e.g., Google Maps pages.
  - augustnagro 10y ago
    Although he may have simple meant "presume ignorance, not malice," the wording used was very derogatory. I do not doubt that Americans on average are less educated on international affairs than other Western countries. But arguing that a factually incorrect comment about Turkish headwear on HN (by a user of unknown nationality) is a result of broader "American ignorance" is meaningless. Furthermore, I believe m00dy's response was accurate and fair. If he viewed every incorrect comment about Turkish culture as written by an American "puppy," I doubt he would have commented, and no one would have learned anything.
    - jfoutz 10y ago
      > Although he may have simple meant "presume ignorance, not malice," the wording used was very derogatory. Indeed it was. after a few hours i realize i came off as a jerk. My apologies to you and anyone else i may have offended.
      - augustnagro 10y ago
WalterSear 10y ago
>The US traditionally was very isolationist. After world war one we became more involved in international affairs, and dominant after ww2. Except not. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_the_United_States#Banana_Wars_.281898.E2.80.931935.29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_the_United...
- eru 10y ago
  The US traditionally has a big chunk of the electorate that's very isolationist minded. And with that come quite a few politicians pandering to that----at least rhethorically.
atmosx 10y ago
For the record: I'm not American :-)

by jfoutz 10y ago

augustnagro 10y ago

Speak for yourself. The Turkish man you replied to wanted to correct an inaccurate stereotype about Turkish culture. Your comment perpetuates the stereotype that Americans are uneducated on global affairs. This may be true for some, but saying that all Americans should be treated like "puppies" because they "don't know any better" is a huge insult.

wpietri 10y ago
As an American myself, I would consider it fair to say that Americans are relatively uneducated on global affairs. Do you have some data suggesting otherwise? Also, I think you've confused a general with a universal. I don't think he was saying that "all Americans" don't know better, just that when confronted with dumb statements it's better to presume ignorance than malice. As an example, National Geographic did a survey in 2002, and young Americans came in second to last: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/11/1120_021120_GeoRoperSurvey.html http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/11/1120_021120_... "About 11 percent of young citizens of the U.S. couldn't even locate the U.S. on a map. The Pacific Ocean's location was a mystery to 29 percent; Japan, to 58 percent; France, to 65 percent; and the United Kingdom, to 69 percent." On the one hand, I find this a bit appalling. On the other, I can't totally blame people; America is big enough and far enough from everything else that relatively few Americans ever leave the country, and those who do mostly stay on the continent. So I don't see a "assume ignorance, not malice" posture as an insult; it's mostly what I do myself.
- aninhumer 10y ago
  >About 11 percent of young citizens of the U.S. couldn't even locate the U.S. on a map. This seems particularly bizarre, because even if someone hasn't learned world geography, surely they've seen a map of the US in various contexts, and can recognise its shape?
  - wpietri 10y ago
    That would be fun to research, but my guess: if you showed them the shape of various countries, more people could pick out the right shape. But that shape cuts off Canada and Mexico in ways that are essentially arbitrary, so if they're keying on those edges, or on the grid-of-states shapes, they could still struggle with a satellite photo. My guess is that this number would be significantly better today because people interact a lot more with world maps when they accidentally zoom out on, e.g., Google Maps pages.
- augustnagro 10y ago
  Although he may have simple meant "presume ignorance, not malice," the wording used was very derogatory. I do not doubt that Americans on average are less educated on international affairs than other Western countries. But arguing that a factually incorrect comment about Turkish headwear on HN (by a user of unknown nationality) is a result of broader "American ignorance" is meaningless. Furthermore, I believe m00dy's response was accurate and fair. If he viewed every incorrect comment about Turkish culture as written by an American "puppy," I doubt he would have commented, and no one would have learned anything.
  - jfoutz 10y ago
    > Although he may have simple meant "presume ignorance, not malice," the wording used was very derogatory. Indeed it was. after a few hours i realize i came off as a jerk. My apologies to you and anyone else i may have offended.
    - augustnagro 10y ago

WalterSear 10y ago

>The US traditionally was very isolationist. After world war one we became more involved in international affairs, and dominant after ww2. Except not. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_the_United_States#Banana_Wars_.281898.E2.80.931935.29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_the_United...

eru 10y ago
The US traditionally has a big chunk of the electorate that's very isolationist minded. And with that come quite a few politicians pandering to that----at least rhethorically.

atmosx 10y ago

For the record: I'm not American :-)