7 ms·

*Hey this is a turkish guy and you just wrote something wrong there In Turkey not a lot of women wear burkas. Burkas and the variation that you would like to p

by m00dy 10y ago

*Hey this is a turkish guy and you just wrote something wrong there In Turkey not a lot of women wear burkas. Burkas and the variation that you would like to point are different things. If you wear burkas, it will be really hard for video surveillance. Because only your eyes and wrinkles around them are visible. The other variation "Head Scarf" which lets your face totally visible is ok for identifying people. From cultural perspective, a lot of women in Turkey wear "head scarf". It is a symbol that you are a part of a religion and you share almost the same vision with the religion that you are a member of. But burkas is different. It means you feel more radicalized in terms of religion. A social example would be shaking hanks with women. If you are a man in Turkey and have a intend to shake a woman's hands, you can do it with a woman wearing "headscarf" but not burkas. So, basically No. They don't wear burkas at all may be 4% percent at most. Below is my personal opinion. I don't really understand why people are bullshitting my country. You never lived there. What you just wrote is a black propaganda. What is the relation between wearing burkas in Turkey and ATM heist? You are not in that position to conclude that opinion. It is just a subliminal message. A recent survey in Turkey showed that Atheism and other close variants are on the rise at its highest rate ever. I hope that one day people in Turkey will break their chains and get rid of that human-made arabic culture.

otec 10y ago
I was in Turkey last week and 80% of women wore burkas. I don't think you're Turk.
afsina 10y ago
True that in Turkey very little amount of women wears clothing that veils the face, but you are over reacting. Previous commenter just count two potential ways of avoiding ATM surveillance.
- gotchange 10y ago
  They're probably Saudi or Gulf Arab tourists and not Turkish. At least, that was my experience when I have been to Turkey the last time and I'm from the region, I have an easy job identifying people's background from their accent, form and attire than outsiders.
  - afsina 10y ago
    There are some small religious groups that uses a face veiling clothing called "çarşaf". This was also historically used in Ottoman era. this setimes covers below nose, sometimes shows the face. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%87ar%C5%9Faf https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%87ar%C5%9Faf Usage seems like .01 to 2 percent of women.
    - gotchange 10y ago
      I checked the pics on Google Images, they're virtually taken recently with nothing dating back to the Ottoman period to validate this claim. All look like black Arabian abayas and burkas and it's difficult to imagine that çarşafs and abayas are identical like that. Fun fact, "çarşaf" or more accurately "şarşaf" in Egyptian Arabic means table clothes or bed clothes. It's amazing words and consequently languages evolve and take on meanings over time.
      - afsina 10y ago
        Çarşaf has the meaning of table cloth in current Turkish as well.
- eru 10y ago
  I was gonna post the same pedantry as m00dy---there's a difference between a Burka and a head scarf. I guess it's just a bit of a trigger topic.
jfoutz 10y ago
Thanks for correcting the poster. The US traditionally was very isolationist. After world war one we became more involved in international affairs, and dominant after ww2. We're in an odd time. in the mid 20th century lots and lots of americans had been around the world, because of the wars. But those generations have almost died off. Very few americans have first hand experience with other cultures. I think the general population avoids thinking about other cultures. Please don't take it personally. It's ignorance. Perceptions are built around these weird media effects from the news. Treat us like puppies or children. it's not malice, we just don't know any better.
- augustnagro 10y ago
  Speak for yourself. The Turkish man you replied to wanted to correct an inaccurate stereotype about Turkish culture. Your comment perpetuates the stereotype that Americans are uneducated on global affairs. This may be true for some, but saying that all Americans should be treated like "puppies" because they "don't know any better" is a huge insult.
  - wpietri 10y ago
    As an American myself, I would consider it fair to say that Americans are relatively uneducated on global affairs. Do you have some data suggesting otherwise? Also, I think you've confused a general with a universal. I don't think he was saying that "all Americans" don't know better, just that when confronted with dumb statements it's better to presume ignorance than malice. As an example, National Geographic did a survey in 2002, and young Americans came in second to last: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/11/1120_021120_GeoRoperSurvey.html http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/11/1120_021120_... "About 11 percent of young citizens of the U.S. couldn't even locate the U.S. on a map. The Pacific Ocean's location was a mystery to 29 percent; Japan, to 58 percent; France, to 65 percent; and the United Kingdom, to 69 percent." On the one hand, I find this a bit appalling. On the other, I can't totally blame people; America is big enough and far enough from everything else that relatively few Americans ever leave the country, and those who do mostly stay on the continent. So I don't see a "assume ignorance, not malice" posture as an insult; it's mostly what I do myself.
gotchange 10y ago
> I hope that one day people in Turkey will break their chains and get rid of that human-made arabic culture. Let's assume for the sake of argument that Turkish people manage to get rid of the Arabian deity (Mohammad's god) they embraced a millennia ago, it would be an uphill battle for them against history because whether you like it or not, the most bright spots in history for Turkish people were during the reign of Seljuks and Ottomans, neither would have happened hadn't for the Islamic doctrine and faith. You could argue of course that Turkey founded by Ataturk was still something impressive and to look up to but it still pales in comparison with what had been achieved during these two eras at least from an imperialistic and militaristic points of view. That's why I think it wouldn't be easy for Turkey to break free from the negative Arabian influence and Sahara culture even if they renounce Islam altogether when compared to other countries in the region with more diverse and rich history spanning various civilizations and glorious times, and therefore they should focus more on how to reconcile with their past and history and not just get in state of denial about it.
- Snargorf 10y ago
  What you said would also apply to, say, the British Empire, which was very Christian for its entire existence. Most people don't really care about the details of history that much - just whatever narrative they can spin that satisfies today's needs.
  - gotchange 10y ago
    Did the British force people to convert to Christianity for them to enjoy the benefits of being subjects of the monarchy? The British Empire was vast and I can't come up with a definite answer for all the areas that were colonized by them but in my country "Egypt", they didn't do that. They however facilitated the work of western missionaries but it didn't achieve much with the Muslim locals and probably contributed to the outrage of Coptic clergy as these missionaries were snatching people from their congregation. Other than that, the British didn't really care about religion and their social order was constructed on race/class first basis and anything else second while for the Ottomans it was all about religion first and anything else second.
coupdetaco 10y ago
A headscarf obscures the face, not unlike a surgical mask. What exactly are you correcting the record on?
- enraged_camel 10y ago
  I don't think you know what a headscarf is. Pop quiz: can you identify this person? http://i.imgur.com/WBqCCv1.jpg http://i.imgur.com/WBqCCv1.jpg
  - mcbits 10y ago
    Google image search indicates it's someone named "Audrey Hepburn".
  - thaumasiotes 10y ago
    Wow, the coloration doesn't help. I would have given myself about 40% odds of successfully identifying Audrey Hepburn; I can't do it at all when she's washed purple.
- vidarh 10y ago
  Really? http://www.modernhejab.com/hijab/turkish-hijab http://www.modernhejab.com/hijab/turkish-hijab
Zaheer 10y ago
*Hey this is a Muslim guy and you just wrote something wrong there You realize you just did the exact same thing between wearing Burkas in Turkey and Islam / Religion? You are not in that position to conclude that opinion. Head scarves & Burka's go beyond 'identity' as you just trivialized them to. You used your comment to get across your 'subliminal message' just as much as the commenter you accused of doing did.
abhi3 10y ago
If you are unhappy with Turkey getting a bad rep internationally then maybe take it up with Erodgan. He is not doing your country any favors with all the sectarian/dictatorial/communal BS
Buge 10y ago
There's no need to immediately jump to conclusions about "black propaganda". The head scarf/burka definition was probably an honest mistake. And the relation to robbery is a fairly logical followup to ghshephard's comment about Japan's masks helping robbery. The point is that Japan isn't the only country where people regularly wear things on their face.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
kbart 10y ago
"human-made arabic culture" Just a nitpick, but every culture is man-made.

by m00dy 10y ago

otec 10y ago

I was in Turkey last week and 80% of women wore burkas. I don't think you're Turk.

afsina 10y ago

True that in Turkey very little amount of women wears clothing that veils the face, but you are over reacting. Previous commenter just count two potential ways of avoiding ATM surveillance.

gotchange 10y ago
They're probably Saudi or Gulf Arab tourists and not Turkish. At least, that was my experience when I have been to Turkey the last time and I'm from the region, I have an easy job identifying people's background from their accent, form and attire than outsiders.
- afsina 10y ago
  There are some small religious groups that uses a face veiling clothing called "çarşaf". This was also historically used in Ottoman era. this setimes covers below nose, sometimes shows the face. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%87ar%C5%9Faf https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%87ar%C5%9Faf Usage seems like .01 to 2 percent of women.
  - gotchange 10y ago
    I checked the pics on Google Images, they're virtually taken recently with nothing dating back to the Ottoman period to validate this claim. All look like black Arabian abayas and burkas and it's difficult to imagine that çarşafs and abayas are identical like that. Fun fact, "çarşaf" or more accurately "şarşaf" in Egyptian Arabic means table clothes or bed clothes. It's amazing words and consequently languages evolve and take on meanings over time.
    - afsina 10y ago
      Çarşaf has the meaning of table cloth in current Turkish as well.
eru 10y ago
I was gonna post the same pedantry as m00dy---there's a difference between a Burka and a head scarf. I guess it's just a bit of a trigger topic.

jfoutz 10y ago

Thanks for correcting the poster. The US traditionally was very isolationist. After world war one we became more involved in international affairs, and dominant after ww2. We're in an odd time. in the mid 20th century lots and lots of americans had been around the world, because of the wars. But those generations have almost died off. Very few americans have first hand experience with other cultures. I think the general population avoids thinking about other cultures. Please don't take it personally. It's ignorance. Perceptions are built around these weird media effects from the news. Treat us like puppies or children. it's not malice, we just don't know any better.

augustnagro 10y ago
Speak for yourself. The Turkish man you replied to wanted to correct an inaccurate stereotype about Turkish culture. Your comment perpetuates the stereotype that Americans are uneducated on global affairs. This may be true for some, but saying that all Americans should be treated like "puppies" because they "don't know any better" is a huge insult.
- wpietri 10y ago
  As an American myself, I would consider it fair to say that Americans are relatively uneducated on global affairs. Do you have some data suggesting otherwise? Also, I think you've confused a general with a universal. I don't think he was saying that "all Americans" don't know better, just that when confronted with dumb statements it's better to presume ignorance than malice. As an example, National Geographic did a survey in 2002, and young Americans came in second to last: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/11/1120_021120_GeoRoperSurvey.html http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/11/1120_021120_... "About 11 percent of young citizens of the U.S. couldn't even locate the U.S. on a map. The Pacific Ocean's location was a mystery to 29 percent; Japan, to 58 percent; France, to 65 percent; and the United Kingdom, to 69 percent." On the one hand, I find this a bit appalling. On the other, I can't totally blame people; America is big enough and far enough from everything else that relatively few Americans ever leave the country, and those who do mostly stay on the continent. So I don't see a "assume ignorance, not malice" posture as an insult; it's mostly what I do myself.

gotchange 10y ago

> I hope that one day people in Turkey will break their chains and get rid of that human-made arabic culture. Let's assume for the sake of argument that Turkish people manage to get rid of the Arabian deity (Mohammad's god) they embraced a millennia ago, it would be an uphill battle for them against history because whether you like it or not, the most bright spots in history for Turkish people were during the reign of Seljuks and Ottomans, neither would have happened hadn't for the Islamic doctrine and faith. You could argue of course that Turkey founded by Ataturk was still something impressive and to look up to but it still pales in comparison with what had been achieved during these two eras at least from an imperialistic and militaristic points of view. That's why I think it wouldn't be easy for Turkey to break free from the negative Arabian influence and Sahara culture even if they renounce Islam altogether when compared to other countries in the region with more diverse and rich history spanning various civilizations and glorious times, and therefore they should focus more on how to reconcile with their past and history and not just get in state of denial about it.

Snargorf 10y ago
What you said would also apply to, say, the British Empire, which was very Christian for its entire existence. Most people don't really care about the details of history that much - just whatever narrative they can spin that satisfies today's needs.
- gotchange 10y ago
  Did the British force people to convert to Christianity for them to enjoy the benefits of being subjects of the monarchy? The British Empire was vast and I can't come up with a definite answer for all the areas that were colonized by them but in my country "Egypt", they didn't do that. They however facilitated the work of western missionaries but it didn't achieve much with the Muslim locals and probably contributed to the outrage of Coptic clergy as these missionaries were snatching people from their congregation. Other than that, the British didn't really care about religion and their social order was constructed on race/class first basis and anything else second while for the Ottomans it was all about religion first and anything else second.

coupdetaco 10y ago

A headscarf obscures the face, not unlike a surgical mask. What exactly are you correcting the record on?

enraged_camel 10y ago
I don't think you know what a headscarf is. Pop quiz: can you identify this person? http://i.imgur.com/WBqCCv1.jpg http://i.imgur.com/WBqCCv1.jpg
- mcbits 10y ago
  Google image search indicates it's someone named "Audrey Hepburn".
- thaumasiotes 10y ago
  Wow, the coloration doesn't help. I would have given myself about 40% odds of successfully identifying Audrey Hepburn; I can't do it at all when she's washed purple.
vidarh 10y ago
Really? http://www.modernhejab.com/hijab/turkish-hijab http://www.modernhejab.com/hijab/turkish-hijab

Zaheer 10y ago

*Hey this is a Muslim guy and you just wrote something wrong there You realize you just did the exact same thing between wearing Burkas in Turkey and Islam / Religion? You are not in that position to conclude that opinion. Head scarves & Burka's go beyond 'identity' as you just trivialized them to. You used your comment to get across your 'subliminal message' just as much as the commenter you accused of doing did.

abhi3 10y ago

If you are unhappy with Turkey getting a bad rep internationally then maybe take it up with Erodgan. He is not doing your country any favors with all the sectarian/dictatorial/communal BS

Buge 10y ago

There's no need to immediately jump to conclusions about "black propaganda". The head scarf/burka definition was probably an honest mistake. And the relation to robbery is a fairly logical followup to ghshephard's comment about Japan's masks helping robbery. The point is that Japan isn't the only country where people regularly wear things on their face.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

kbart 10y ago

"human-made arabic culture" Just a nitpick, but every culture is man-made.