6 ms·

I wonder if it's actually effective, or just makes the people calling for it to be done, feel better.

by Aelinsaar 10y ago

exolymph 10y ago
All of the above? Totalitarian regimes always try to control the public narrative. It matters.
- Aelinsaar 10y ago
  Yes, but totalitarian regimes also tend to torture people, and that doesn't work in the long run. Being totalitarian doesn't make you competent, but it probably makes you less likely to carefully study your methods for efficacy. So I wonder, is there any evidence that this works, or is it just a sop to angry old men in the politburo who don't like what they see online?
  - bduerst 10y ago
    This is anecdotal, but from the time I spent working in Shanghai & Beijing with the current younger middle class, they're pretty aware of this and just don't really care that much. In the U.S. we're very vigilant about our first amendment rights and feel violated if they're even slightly tampered with, but for some of the Chinese at least, they don't see it interfering with their lives as long as "things are going okay" for them.
    - yorwba 10y ago
      As a counterpoint, my Chinese teacher said the other day that she is worried about the days of the Cultural Revolution returning. She sees her relatives sharing propaganda pieces on WeChat and showed us a video of her aunt unironically performing the "Loyalty Dance" (as in loyalty to Mao) with her coworkers. They will also get angry at her when she tries to talk about China's worse points. This might be an age thing though, maybe the younger generations have a different outlook on these things.
    - malaeisd 10y ago
      That was my experience too. We have to understand that the younger middle class is only a generation removed from the Cultural Revolution. So they hear stories from their grandparents and parents about people starving to death because of the famines. These things will take time. As the Chinese get more comfortable, those younger people will join the system and change it form within. Remember that South Korea, Singapore, and even Taiwan were dictatorships that improved their quality of life significantly before they became democracies.
      - studentrob 10y ago
        Singapore does not choose its Presidential candidates [1] In Taiwan and South Korea, anyone with enough popular support can get on the ballot. From the Singapore wiki, "Potential candidates must obtain certificates of eligibility from the Presidential Elections Committee (PEC), the function of which is to ensure that such persons have the necessary qualifications to be nominated as a candidate for the election" [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_Singapore#Election_procedure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_Singapore#Electio...
- Kristine1975 10y ago
  All regimes try to control the public narrative.
  - mc32 10y ago
    Yes but the difference is in totalitarian regimes, theirs is the only narrative. No one or nothing else's story is permitted, while theirs is made to flourish. On the positive side, when you have an undivided narrative like that you can get a lot done (sometimes bad, sometimes good) without impeding distractions.
    - meric 10y ago
      In non-totalitarian regimes, you only get your career threatened[1], in totalitarian regimes, you could be imprisoned. [1] http://gawker.com/this-is-how-hillary-clinton-gets-the-coverage-she-wants-1758019058 http://gawker.com/this-is-how-hillary-clinton-gets-the-cover...
    - bjshepard 10y ago
      You can get books in the Shanghai library with a lot of narratives of world history different than the CCP's. Totalitarian is probably not the most fitting word to describe the current state of Chinese society, insofar as it connotates an environment of constant fear of unwarranted state intrustion into everyday life. The only environment I've been in that could be said to be "totalitarian" in that sense would be the south side of Chicago.
      - nametakenobv 10y ago
        >You can get books in the Shanghai library with a lot of narratives of world history different than the CCP's. Yeah, get too many of those and see what happens.
      - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
        DPRK and Eritrea are pretty darn close to totalitarian. Even at its worst in the 60s/70s, China was just barely there, it is just too big to control likes that. It is difficulty it to describe China's political system using existing terms. Maybe authoritarian, but that doesn't feel right either. It isn't transparent in how the power flows, could even be an oligarchy or aristocracy.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
xufi 10y ago
With China you're never sure. Look at what happened with the OPM hack they did on the US government database of federal workers
- Kristine1975 10y ago
  Just because the hack originated in China doesn't mean the Chinese government was behind it.
  - xufi 10y ago
    I wasn't referring to the Chinese govt per se. But just the many entities of cyber criminals that these hackers originate from also
  - sievebrain 10y ago
    Are you trying to imply that for profit commercial hackers would care about draining the OPM? There's really only one type of organisation that could use that data: a government.
    - xufi 10y ago
      Pretty much my point.
eva1984 10y ago
Not too much. But fear do the rest of the work.
- Aelinsaar 10y ago
  Fear is very powerful, until you scare people too much, then you find out the other side of the power of fear.

I wonder if it's actually effective, or just makes the people calling for it to be done, feel better.

exolymph 10y ago

All of the above? Totalitarian regimes always try to control the public narrative. It matters.

Aelinsaar 10y ago
Yes, but totalitarian regimes also tend to torture people, and that doesn't work in the long run. Being totalitarian doesn't make you competent, but it probably makes you less likely to carefully study your methods for efficacy. So I wonder, is there any evidence that this works, or is it just a sop to angry old men in the politburo who don't like what they see online?
- bduerst 10y ago
  This is anecdotal, but from the time I spent working in Shanghai & Beijing with the current younger middle class, they're pretty aware of this and just don't really care that much. In the U.S. we're very vigilant about our first amendment rights and feel violated if they're even slightly tampered with, but for some of the Chinese at least, they don't see it interfering with their lives as long as "things are going okay" for them.
  - yorwba 10y ago
    As a counterpoint, my Chinese teacher said the other day that she is worried about the days of the Cultural Revolution returning. She sees her relatives sharing propaganda pieces on WeChat and showed us a video of her aunt unironically performing the "Loyalty Dance" (as in loyalty to Mao) with her coworkers. They will also get angry at her when she tries to talk about China's worse points. This might be an age thing though, maybe the younger generations have a different outlook on these things.
  - malaeisd 10y ago
    That was my experience too. We have to understand that the younger middle class is only a generation removed from the Cultural Revolution. So they hear stories from their grandparents and parents about people starving to death because of the famines. These things will take time. As the Chinese get more comfortable, those younger people will join the system and change it form within. Remember that South Korea, Singapore, and even Taiwan were dictatorships that improved their quality of life significantly before they became democracies.
    - studentrob 10y ago
      Singapore does not choose its Presidential candidates [1] In Taiwan and South Korea, anyone with enough popular support can get on the ballot. From the Singapore wiki, "Potential candidates must obtain certificates of eligibility from the Presidential Elections Committee (PEC), the function of which is to ensure that such persons have the necessary qualifications to be nominated as a candidate for the election" [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_Singapore#Election_procedure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_Singapore#Electio...
Kristine1975 10y ago
All regimes try to control the public narrative.
- mc32 10y ago
  Yes but the difference is in totalitarian regimes, theirs is the only narrative. No one or nothing else's story is permitted, while theirs is made to flourish. On the positive side, when you have an undivided narrative like that you can get a lot done (sometimes bad, sometimes good) without impeding distractions.
  - meric 10y ago
    In non-totalitarian regimes, you only get your career threatened[1], in totalitarian regimes, you could be imprisoned. [1] http://gawker.com/this-is-how-hillary-clinton-gets-the-coverage-she-wants-1758019058 http://gawker.com/this-is-how-hillary-clinton-gets-the-cover...
  - bjshepard 10y ago
    You can get books in the Shanghai library with a lot of narratives of world history different than the CCP's. Totalitarian is probably not the most fitting word to describe the current state of Chinese society, insofar as it connotates an environment of constant fear of unwarranted state intrustion into everyday life. The only environment I've been in that could be said to be "totalitarian" in that sense would be the south side of Chicago.
    - nametakenobv 10y ago
      >You can get books in the Shanghai library with a lot of narratives of world history different than the CCP's. Yeah, get too many of those and see what happens.
    - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
      DPRK and Eritrea are pretty darn close to totalitarian. Even at its worst in the 60s/70s, China was just barely there, it is just too big to control likes that. It is difficulty it to describe China's political system using existing terms. Maybe authoritarian, but that doesn't feel right either. It isn't transparent in how the power flows, could even be an oligarchy or aristocracy.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

xufi 10y ago

With China you're never sure. Look at what happened with the OPM hack they did on the US government database of federal workers

Kristine1975 10y ago
Just because the hack originated in China doesn't mean the Chinese government was behind it.
- xufi 10y ago
  I wasn't referring to the Chinese govt per se. But just the many entities of cyber criminals that these hackers originate from also
- sievebrain 10y ago
  Are you trying to imply that for profit commercial hackers would care about draining the OPM? There's really only one type of organisation that could use that data: a government.
  - xufi 10y ago
    Pretty much my point.

eva1984 10y ago

Not too much. But fear do the rest of the work.

Aelinsaar 10y ago
Fear is very powerful, until you scare people too much, then you find out the other side of the power of fear.