5 ms·

It's actually really weird being a young adult (23) who doesn't and has never drank. People will always look at you as if you're from another planet and you'll

• marricks 10y ago
  Yep, pretty similar if you say "I won't eat that, I'm vegan." Then you're in for some serious discussions about how plants somehow feel pain. People are insecure.
  • Chris2048 10y ago
    How Mmany times have you heard that argument?
    • marricks 10y ago
      Lost count, at least a dozen.
• bostonpete 10y ago
  It was an etiquette class -- presumably for formal settings. Of course they're going to steer you away from certain topics -- what did you expect from such a class in the first place...?
• waimbes 10y ago
  It's not about reminding people of a moral position, it's about making people feel bad about the situation they have put you in. If you serve meat to a vegetarian and they say "sorry I don't eat meat," you feel bad because you've put them in an uncomfortable position, and now you are concerned about whether they will be comfortable/have a good time. Same with drinking.
  • realbarack 10y ago
    The fact that someone who doesn't drink considers it a "moral decision" makes people uncomfortable as well. If it were just about preferring to drink or not, no one would care, but when it becomes about morals people who do choose to drink feel like they're being judged.
    • jcoffland 10y ago
      Often times it's the non-drinkers who imagine that it is a moral judgement when someone else doesn't drink. Perhaps this is because they secretly feel that they are making a wrong decision but are doing so because the group is all doing it together. They then see one person not drinking as an affront because deep down they are judging themselves. If you are truly comfortable with your own decision to drink you will not see someone else's decision not to drink as a threat.
      • cmdrfred 10y ago
        How uncomfortable with their decision to drink must be the people who downvoted you. They cant argue beacuse they know they are wrong. Intellectual cowardice, plain and simple.
    • cylinder 10y ago
      No. Try to simply pass with a no thanks, and almost always you'll face a line of questioning as to why not. It's really annoying. Even if they respect your decision not to drink they still ask why. Some get frustrated too.
      • Nadya 10y ago
        I've, fortunately, only ever experienced this a single time. From a coworker of the opposite gender who was already a few drinks in, at an event where I was the only person not drinking. I've never suffered the line of questioning that people always talk about. Perhaps a single "Why?" which is easily answered with "Personal choice." And honestly, if you deviate from the "norm" a "why?" should be expected and factored into the decision. There are other decisions where you can expect to be asked "Why?" For example: I don't have a Facebook account. "Why?" I don't watch movies/TV shows. "Why?" It could be argued the "why" isn't important. The question isn't asked out of importance, but out of curiosity. They're curious why I made the decision I made, especially because it is an unpopular decision.
• some-guy 10y ago
  I loathe telling people I'm a vegetarian for this reason. People think that my decision to not eat meat is an attack on _them_ and not a choice I've made for myself. Edit: a word
  • st3v3r 10y ago
    Well, many people have had experiences with the zealot vegetarian/vegan who will attack them for not following their choices.
    • steveklabnik 10y ago
      My experience is that there are very, very few of those kinds of people. I do not practice veganism anymore, but the number of pushy vegans I saw was vastly, vastly outnumbered by the number of non-vegans who felt the need to profess how moral their own decisions around food were. Person: Whatcha' getting? Me: I'm not totally sure. Person: How about the steak? Me: No, I don't really want that. (oh no.) Person: Really? It's supposed to be really good. Me: I hear that, but I don't think so, not this time. Person: Why not? Me: Well, I don't eat meat at all, actually. Person: Oh yeah? Are you vegetarian or vegan? Me: Vegan. Person: Oh, I'm so sorry to hear that. The steaks is gonna be so great. Don't you just hate how pushy vegans are? They're always going on and on and on about... This story happened over and over and over and over and over and over and over to me. It was the same with not drinking, too. "Why did you only get a Pepsi?"
  • enraged_camel 10y ago
    To be fair, a ton of vegetarians are smug, moralizing douchebags who do attack others on their decision to eat meat. There's a humorous saying: "How do tell if someone is vegetarian/vegan? Don't worry: they will let you know." There was a girl in my dorm during freshman year of college who would literally start sobbing if she saw anyone eat meat.
    • delecti 10y ago
      The vast majority of people who don't eat meat honestly don't care about anyone else's dietary choices. The reason it comes up is because most people assume everyone eats meat. If I was never offered meat, I'd never have to tell anyone that I'm not going to eat it. There are always going to be outliers like that girl, but compare the relative frequency of seeing people like that vs the absurd number of bacon products (jelly, soap, toothpaste).
• rfrank 10y ago
  > This response came out unexpectedly negative. Because for most people whether or not they drink isn't a moral decision, and comparing it to a drug from Brave New World is a wee bit of a stretch.
  • groovy2shoes 10y ago
    Hmm. My mind flew right over Brave New World and went for the Rig Veda: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soma https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soma Though, in context, I think your interpretation is likely correct.
  • jcoffland 10y ago
    I drink and I don't see that comparison as a stretch. Our society regularly endorses drinking as a way to deal with your shitty life. This is just like the soma in Brave New World.
    • scythe 10y ago
      Except in Brave New World, soma is used to maintain a lie (which you're punished for refusing to believe) that life isn't unpleasant. In the modern world, alcohol is used by some people to cope with the common-sense fact that life is unpleasant. One of the central themes of Brave New World is the collapse of realism and individualism in the attempt to maintain perfect order (and thus, ironically, control over reality). It's hard to leave that out of any conception of soma, especially when you consider that the pretentious fuck complaining about his coworkers taking "soma" really isn't all that much more enterprising or self-aware than anyone else, in the first place.
• MicroBerto 10y ago
  The good news is that this becomes less of an issue with age. In another 5 years you'll deal with this situation slightly less, and another 5 years after that (when many of your peers have kids or whatever) nobody will care at all. I think most of this entire discussion simply revolves around the young age of the startup scene in general. It's the same with any scene full of people your age. Now that I'm in my early 30s, I can tell you that anyone this age who's still doing peer pressure is someone you need to remove from your life immediately. Most of us just want to have a few cocktails and call it a night. BTW, it's not "soma" when used in social situations. It's social lubricant. I'd equate alcohol with soma when a person is sitting on the couch watching NFL or MLB with beer, not caring about anything in the world. Which also has its place in the world, you just don't need to do that on a consistent basis. Long story short, my advice to you is to find a few older friends who just don't care.
  • TheOtherHobbes 10y ago
    I'm older and still get all kinds of reactions if I mention I don't drink. Adding "...tonight" seems like a useful way to avoid of all that, so I may start using it.
    • beamatronic 10y ago
      In my experience it is a company culture kind of thing. I have worked at companies where managers with kids are leading the weekly beer bash, and I have also been at places where there are multiple kegerators that no one ever touches.
    • surge 10y ago
      I get reactions too, it's usually "meh". Then again, I live in an area where you're more likely to catch flak for drinking then not.
    • neves 10y ago
      Once I heard it was an AA strategy for ex-alcoholics: just say you can't drink today. You'll suffer no pressure to do it.
• VLM 10y ago
  Gentlemanly behavior or etiquette in general at least historically could be summarized to always make the people around you as comfortable as possible. In that way being as nice as possible to the drinkers makes sense, its not like you're billed by the spoken word or something. Also it makes the manager in the linked article a hopeless jackass for making the employee uncomfortable, even worse doing to in front of peers. Well, every continuum has a median and someone has to end up below it... Its interesting that the topic changes but the subject never changes. Everyone expects this kind of behavior with food, now a days. Historically it was normal for religion. You'd agree with your immediate boss or things would get very uncomfortable very quickly. Times change. Maybe someday people who don't drink won't be bullied, much as its pretty much OK to be Jewish nowadays, or whatever else. Another set of current day examples are progressive/left wing political signalling on social media which is fairly mandatory, and strangely enough the ecosystem your phone belongs to (ios, android, or the also-rans).
• edwhitesell 10y ago
  > It's actually really weird being a young adult (23) who doesn't and has never drank. As someone who never drank until I was 25, I can see your point. However, the negative thoughts people have about "don't rock the boat for being different" have never resonated with me. I think the whole idea that everyone should always care about everyone else's feelings has gone way too far. I sometimes eat red meat, I enjoy good beer, I don't smoke or do any drugs. We can still be friends whether you agree, or disagree, with any or all of those points. If you don't think so, that's your problem.
  • lj3 10y ago
    "don't rock the boat for being different" only applies to followers, not leaders. Nobody would ever accuse the college hockey star or the startup founder of rocking the boat because he doesn't drink. They would think it was courageous that he stood by his principles.
• abandonliberty 10y ago
  You'll get confusion whenever you don't do something that is part of the standard human experience. Drinking, having children, getting married, dating, not eating meat, etc. Most unreasonable behavior as a reasonable reason behind it. Never drinking is unreasonable without significant personal/religious reasons. People are understandably curious about your reasons, which generally wouldn't be good small talk (e.g. it killed my X).
• mmanfrin 10y ago
  make people aware of a moral decision This response came out unexpectedly negative You make a moral decision to not engage, which means you have acted superiority to their decision to engage in something that you consider a moral choice. People are reacting to the superiority, not to the lack of alcohol (as it evidenced by the suggestion that you say you're not drinking tonight rather than 'don't drink').
  • jcoffland 10y ago
    "I don't drink," is not a moral statement. Unless you are willing to read in to it. Which is your own problem. Even if it is a common problem.
    • Bartweiss 10y ago
      No, but the top level poster specifically called their decision a moral one. Even if that means "it's not right for me", it still changes the tone from a non-moral statement about drinking.
• dannysu 10y ago
  I'm 32 and I don't drink alcohol nor coffee. I did try when I turned 18 just so I know what it's like. It's definitely weird in a social setting when most of it involves drinking. To say it's a tech industry or startup thing is incorrect. From my view so much of the society revolves around alcohol and coffee. It's like people don't know how to have a good time without it.
• vectorpush 10y ago
  Well I'm not surprised that a class on etiquette is going to make a point of teasing out the finer nuances of social interaction, but in most cases a simple "no thanks" will suffice. Most people don't care because in the real world there are plenty of people who don't drink (e.g. recovering alcoholics, designated drivers, people with health issues, legal issues, safety concerns, religious objections, or even people who just want to wake up on time for work in the morning).
• 1123581321 10y ago
  I just say, "no thanks," or, "no thanks, I'm good." It is not like a food preference where you need to be careful about hidden ingredients.
• SilasX 10y ago
  Two things: 1) it actually seems like good advice, in general, to avoid implying moral judgment if you can avoid it. It tends to put them "on guard" and go into defensive-mode, looking for reasons to justify what they're doing, rather than thinking neutrally. I remember an article about how it's more convincing, to pro-gun people, to say, a) "This measure will reassure Suzy down the street", than b) "This measure will save lives" since b) implies a lot of moral culpability for opponents -- even though b) is a better reason for the law (if true). 2) There are parts of the country where not-drinking is normal or at least kept out of view. Say, Utah.
• joesmo 10y ago
  Drinking is not a moral issue. It's a health issue. If I am an alcoholic, have other health problems that prevent me from drinking, or just don't want to drink because I value my health, I certainly shouldn't have to go along with it because it makes some people uncomfortable. Those people are the ones who should be taking a look at themselves and their problem with someone not drinking. It is not my responsibility to make others feel better at my own expense because they can't deal with their own insecurities. If I had a peanut allergy and someone offered me peanuts, should I just not rock the boat and go along with it? No peanuts for me tonight. Then they'll ask again and again. Why not just set them straight in the first place? If that doesn't go over well, it's probably a good idea to not be around those people anyway because those people obviously have no capacity for respect.
• civilian 10y ago
  I can understand people who don't drink, but I don't understand people who have never drank. It feels like an obvious personal flaw, a sign of cowardice, that you would not have even tried something so routine and common in our society. If you have tried alcohol, and decided it wasn't for you, then that it all the more courageous. But it feels like you just aren't exploring all that life holds. Or, you don't have faith in yourself that you could get away from it. There's also this societal concept that everyone has vices. And people would rather be able to recognize and see your vice, rather than have it be unknown. Bill Cosby comes to mind.
  • notmarkus 10y ago
    Do you feel this way about all mind-altering substances, or is it a function of ubiquity? Where do you draw the line? I actually agree with you in theory: I think most people should try most things. I think my line, though, is a function of potential for addiction and abuse. On that scale, though, alcohol looks as bad as amphetamines, and far worse than something like MDMA. If ubiquity is your primary factor, do you feel the same way about cigarettes? Should everyone try them to see what the fuss is about?
• cushychicken 10y ago
  I agree with your position here. Sure, etiquette is basically a set of unspoken social rules to keep people from feeling uncomfortable; however, it's far more gauche of a host to not pay attention to this type of proclivity in their guest (especially a recurring guest). I don't think it's at all objectionable for someone to assert their choices in a clear way the first time. I'm sure plenty of people will say it's not OK to bend over backwards to accommodate your guests. I agree with that sentiment as well! Where we'd digress is equating "not serving alcohol" or "choosing fish over meat" to "bending over backwards". If you're really interested in making someone feel welcome in your home, you can go without booze or steak for one night!
• matthewtoast 10y ago
  Imagine you invited me over to your home for dinner, and you offered me a glass of tap water. And I said, "No thank you, I don't drink tap water." Would you have any questions for me? Would you feel strange about drinking the tap water yourself now? Would you wonder why I chose to say "I don't drink tap water" instead of just "No thank you"?