5 ms·

I'm sure I'll get buried for this, but I have a hard time believing I'm not right. Before I start, I don't know Leah and I'm not judging her character or her c

by muffins 17y ago

I'm sure I'll get buried for this, but I have a hard time believing I'm not right. Before I start, I don't know Leah and I'm not judging her character or her coding abilities. Leah gets a lot of attention for the one obvious reason that doesn't need to be restated. That is why these articles are posted. This blog post doesn't contain any unique information that is presented any better than you could find elsewhere. She has not been involved in that many projects and few of them have gone very far. Pownce was probably her peak. So I'm not trying to be negative or a nitpicker or anything else like that. I just can't stand that people post the most minute things she does. I remember Techcrunch posted an article the other day because she joined some other company and left SixApart. There are so many developers and designers that are switching around every day and we barely hear about it aside from the big league players. The fact that Ms. Culver gets her own slice of attention for doing almost nothing of noteworthiness starts to wear on my patience is all.

dannyr 17y ago
Have you seen her work in OAuth? Her other open-source projects? You are guilty for the same reason you are accusing others for giving her attention. You don't think she's good enough because of it. Seriously, the startup world and the Valley is such a male-dominated place. I would imagine it's not easy being a woman in this space. There are so many blog posts from men who went to the top of Hacker News and some of them from people who have no experience delivering. I also haven't seen any of her posts here for a long time. I'm not saying we cut her slack but let's hold her to the same standard we do for posts by men here on Hacker News.
- muffins 17y ago
  Look at the article that was linked here. I'm not blaming any of this on her. The guy who added this and the people who upvote it only did so for one reason. There is hardly anything informative in this article that hasn't been said a million times over. EDIT: I shouldn't even be calling it an article. Your idea that its hard being a woman in a male-dominated industry such as this...that's a whole other argument for another time.
  - ivankirigin 17y ago
    People like you are part of the reason it is hard. You should follow a good rule for commenting: don't say things that you wouldn't say to someone's face.
- jimboyoungblood 17y ago
  I'm not saying we cut her slack but let's hold her to the same standard we do for posts by men here on Hacker News That's exactly what the post you're replying to was suggesting. Their point was that if any other (male) developer had made the exact same post, it would not have made it to the front page of HN.
  - amackera 17y ago
    I don't think it's fair to say that.
jasonlbaptiste 17y ago
Yes, I may have a geek crush on her, but that doesn't matter. I read her stuff because she's smart and has built some good things in the past. You can't go wrong reading what smart people have to say.
axod 17y ago
I agree. It's a shame. TBH If I were a woman, I'd likely create a male online persona just so I could compete on a level playing field without the silly reverse sexism and condescending "oh wow! You're a woman, well in that case this is even more impressive then! Well done you." The problem is, often online if a woman steps into a geeky world, their comment/post/whatever is voted up into the stratosphere, by probably well meaning men who want to prove they're not sexist. Judge stories/posts/comments on their merit. Not the identity of the author.
GHFigs 17y ago
You could ignore it, just like you ignore dozens of other stories every day. You could flag it if you think it's inappropriate for Hacker News. You could write a blog post about the problem you see and submit it. You could stop reading the offending sites. You could develop a CulverBlock browser extension and share it with like-minded people. Or you could complain.
paul9290 17y ago
I would bet it's marketing fluff for Plancast written in her contract or they recently requested her to do a blog post. Sharp .... maybe?
jcapote 17y ago
Thanks for saying what others don't have the balls to say.
- theoneill 17y ago
  Tactlessness ≠ balls.
ericd 17y ago
I'd agree that that effect is in play to some extent, but I did learn a couple of things, which is more than I can say about many articles that get posted here. Because of this article, I now know about ASIHTTPRequest, which is very likely going to find its way into my iPhone app in the near future as a result. So I'd say it's a net win.
jraines 17y ago
Why complain about it? She can't control whether others give her attention. I respect your comment, but one thing is a little . . . off. How would you like if someone pointed to your most prominent project to date and said, "that was probably his peak"? On the actual article - I would've found this interesting regardless of who wrote it (even though, yes, if it hadn't been by her I might not have seen it)
- ramchip 17y ago
  > She can't control whether others give her attention. He did say "I just can't stand that people post the most minute things she does", which is a complaint aimed at HN (or other sites') posters, not at her. I'd say the article isn't without interest, but I agree with the commenter that it's not really HN material: it's on a very specific programming problem, and it's not something that'll make you think or gain new insight. Compare to the Knuth submission. It'd rather call it 'stackoverflow answer' material.
pg 17y ago
Even if you were right (and I have no idea if you are), this is a pretty poisonous form of ad hominem. Is a few too many people upvoting her posts such a bad thing that it justifies making a comment like this in order to correct it?
- culvercity 17y ago
  Even if you were right (and I have no idea if you are), this is an even more insidious form of ad hominem. Would you have felt the need to post that if someone pointed out the lack of accomplishments of some random male developer? People are quite ruthless with what they perceive as fluff blog posts from ANY source, and I'm not sure your generation's social mores regarding politeness or chivalry are necessarily the correct prescription for alleviating discrimination. Your implication that women shouldn't be held to the same standard is inherently condescending. Pocket Fun Games - would you have funded a MALE single founder in another country doing a FREE iPhone app? Not exactly a million-dollar idea, those free, ad-free iPhone apps. It's not just throwing away your/Sequoia's money, it's that when you fail to hold female applicants to the same standard, the resulting failures add grist to the mill for the other side of the sexist argument, which presumably is the opposite effect from what you intend.
  - pg 17y ago
    Yes, I would have. I'm quite concerned about the increasingly nasty tone on HN, of which your comment is a startling example. I've read a lot of the comments on HN over the last 3 years and I've seen few so venomous. And ironically, completely mistaken. Pocket Fun Games has two founders, one of them male, and they are one of the most profitable companies from their YC cycle.
    - culvercity 17y ago
      Don't take MY word for it, I'll quote Pocket Fun Games directly: "Magic Wars has just had a great article written by techcrunch.com (thanks to the ppl who left such nice comments!) As a single developer, I don’t have any money to spend on advertising MW so i’m really relying on this kind of press to help the app grow." Note her use of "I" everywhere instead of "we", and the press coverage that mentions her as the only maker of the game. All three of: the web site, twitter feed, and blog have not been updated in more than 6 months. If you're claiming this as one of your top successes, it doesn't sound very complimentary to the rest of the companies. Anyway, relative success is a facile claim when it's well-known most of them will be pre-revenue for a long time, hence any amount of virtual gold sales compares favorably to zero. Her being a single founder would poke holes in both of these pieces of advice: that the most important thing is to get a co-founder; and not to get one just for the sake of getting one -- apparently, a single founder who doesn't need a second one to DO the work still finds it useful to add a buddy to the application form to get past your anti-single-founder bias. If a reality check sounds like "poison" or "venom" to you, that may be an indication you spend too much time in a bubble. A lot of people are artificially nice to you in an attempt to curry favor, because they think you're their shot at striking it rich. Having people around who go to the trouble of calling you out on things -- rightly or wrongly -- is invaluable, because it's an opportunity for perspective. (You know who never gets called out on anything? Grandpa. Because he makes himself such a pain to disagree with, everyone eventually just pretends like they agree in order to placate him; and with no challenge and no-one to get him out of his rut, he withers away.) Sure, with volume investing, you'll eventually hit it big -- but that's like entering the Frito-Lay sweepstakes 1.65 million times. It doesn't take any particular skill.
petercooper 17y ago
I see where you're coming from, but I don't think it's the "obvious reason." I think the reason is because many Hacker News users seem to adore celebrity in all its forms.. in the past we've had similarly trivial posts from certain "names" in our field crop up on HN with regularity. All of them men so far, in my recollection.

by muffins 17y ago

dannyr 17y ago

Have you seen her work in OAuth? Her other open-source projects? You are guilty for the same reason you are accusing others for giving her attention. You don't think she's good enough because of it. Seriously, the startup world and the Valley is such a male-dominated place. I would imagine it's not easy being a woman in this space. There are so many blog posts from men who went to the top of Hacker News and some of them from people who have no experience delivering. I also haven't seen any of her posts here for a long time. I'm not saying we cut her slack but let's hold her to the same standard we do for posts by men here on Hacker News.

muffins 17y ago
Look at the article that was linked here. I'm not blaming any of this on her. The guy who added this and the people who upvote it only did so for one reason. There is hardly anything informative in this article that hasn't been said a million times over. EDIT: I shouldn't even be calling it an article. Your idea that its hard being a woman in a male-dominated industry such as this...that's a whole other argument for another time.
- ivankirigin 17y ago
  People like you are part of the reason it is hard. You should follow a good rule for commenting: don't say things that you wouldn't say to someone's face.
jimboyoungblood 17y ago
I'm not saying we cut her slack but let's hold her to the same standard we do for posts by men here on Hacker News That's exactly what the post you're replying to was suggesting. Their point was that if any other (male) developer had made the exact same post, it would not have made it to the front page of HN.
- amackera 17y ago
  I don't think it's fair to say that.

jasonlbaptiste 17y ago

Yes, I may have a geek crush on her, but that doesn't matter. I read her stuff because she's smart and has built some good things in the past. You can't go wrong reading what smart people have to say.

axod 17y ago

I agree. It's a shame. TBH If I were a woman, I'd likely create a male online persona just so I could compete on a level playing field without the silly reverse sexism and condescending "oh wow! You're a woman, well in that case this is even more impressive then! Well done you." The problem is, often online if a woman steps into a geeky world, their comment/post/whatever is voted up into the stratosphere, by probably well meaning men who want to prove they're not sexist. Judge stories/posts/comments on their merit. Not the identity of the author.

GHFigs 17y ago

You could ignore it, just like you ignore dozens of other stories every day. You could flag it if you think it's inappropriate for Hacker News. You could write a blog post about the problem you see and submit it. You could stop reading the offending sites. You could develop a CulverBlock browser extension and share it with like-minded people. Or you could complain.

paul9290 17y ago

I would bet it's marketing fluff for Plancast written in her contract or they recently requested her to do a blog post. Sharp .... maybe?

jcapote 17y ago

Thanks for saying what others don't have the balls to say.

theoneill 17y ago
Tactlessness ≠ balls.

ericd 17y ago

I'd agree that that effect is in play to some extent, but I did learn a couple of things, which is more than I can say about many articles that get posted here. Because of this article, I now know about ASIHTTPRequest, which is very likely going to find its way into my iPhone app in the near future as a result. So I'd say it's a net win.

jraines 17y ago

Why complain about it? She can't control whether others give her attention. I respect your comment, but one thing is a little . . . off. How would you like if someone pointed to your most prominent project to date and said, "that was probably his peak"? On the actual article - I would've found this interesting regardless of who wrote it (even though, yes, if it hadn't been by her I might not have seen it)

ramchip 17y ago
> She can't control whether others give her attention. He did say "I just can't stand that people post the most minute things she does", which is a complaint aimed at HN (or other sites') posters, not at her. I'd say the article isn't without interest, but I agree with the commenter that it's not really HN material: it's on a very specific programming problem, and it's not something that'll make you think or gain new insight. Compare to the Knuth submission. It'd rather call it 'stackoverflow answer' material.

pg 17y ago

Even if you were right (and I have no idea if you are), this is a pretty poisonous form of ad hominem. Is a few too many people upvoting her posts such a bad thing that it justifies making a comment like this in order to correct it?

culvercity 17y ago
Even if you were right (and I have no idea if you are), this is an even more insidious form of ad hominem. Would you have felt the need to post that if someone pointed out the lack of accomplishments of some random male developer? People are quite ruthless with what they perceive as fluff blog posts from ANY source, and I'm not sure your generation's social mores regarding politeness or chivalry are necessarily the correct prescription for alleviating discrimination. Your implication that women shouldn't be held to the same standard is inherently condescending. Pocket Fun Games - would you have funded a MALE single founder in another country doing a FREE iPhone app? Not exactly a million-dollar idea, those free, ad-free iPhone apps. It's not just throwing away your/Sequoia's money, it's that when you fail to hold female applicants to the same standard, the resulting failures add grist to the mill for the other side of the sexist argument, which presumably is the opposite effect from what you intend.
- pg 17y ago
  Yes, I would have. I'm quite concerned about the increasingly nasty tone on HN, of which your comment is a startling example. I've read a lot of the comments on HN over the last 3 years and I've seen few so venomous. And ironically, completely mistaken. Pocket Fun Games has two founders, one of them male, and they are one of the most profitable companies from their YC cycle.
  - culvercity 17y ago
    Don't take MY word for it, I'll quote Pocket Fun Games directly: "Magic Wars has just had a great article written by techcrunch.com (thanks to the ppl who left such nice comments!) As a single developer, I don’t have any money to spend on advertising MW so i’m really relying on this kind of press to help the app grow." Note her use of "I" everywhere instead of "we", and the press coverage that mentions her as the only maker of the game. All three of: the web site, twitter feed, and blog have not been updated in more than 6 months. If you're claiming this as one of your top successes, it doesn't sound very complimentary to the rest of the companies. Anyway, relative success is a facile claim when it's well-known most of them will be pre-revenue for a long time, hence any amount of virtual gold sales compares favorably to zero. Her being a single founder would poke holes in both of these pieces of advice: that the most important thing is to get a co-founder; and not to get one just for the sake of getting one -- apparently, a single founder who doesn't need a second one to DO the work still finds it useful to add a buddy to the application form to get past your anti-single-founder bias. If a reality check sounds like "poison" or "venom" to you, that may be an indication you spend too much time in a bubble. A lot of people are artificially nice to you in an attempt to curry favor, because they think you're their shot at striking it rich. Having people around who go to the trouble of calling you out on things -- rightly or wrongly -- is invaluable, because it's an opportunity for perspective. (You know who never gets called out on anything? Grandpa. Because he makes himself such a pain to disagree with, everyone eventually just pretends like they agree in order to placate him; and with no challenge and no-one to get him out of his rut, he withers away.) Sure, with volume investing, you'll eventually hit it big -- but that's like entering the Frito-Lay sweepstakes 1.65 million times. It doesn't take any particular skill.

petercooper 17y ago

I see where you're coming from, but I don't think it's the "obvious reason." I think the reason is because many Hacker News users seem to adore celebrity in all its forms.. in the past we've had similarly trivial posts from certain "names" in our field crop up on HN with regularity. All of them men so far, in my recollection.