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Imagine that people are starting to have a printer that can print any objects from any design at will, including the biological kind. ... That mean every person

Imagine that people are starting to have a printer that can print any objects from any design at will, including the biological kind. ... That mean every person with a 3D printer is barred from printing designs from a patent of an inventor. In order to make lot of money, he essentially bar the people with 3D printers from printing so that he can sell his invention at the market for really high fees. If you had a replicator that could produce anything, why would you need money at all? There wouldn't even be markets as we know them today where an inventor could command really high fees. And without needing money, you wouldn't need the government enforced monopoly that is patents to allow restricted exploitation of an idea. Besides, stupid people would think they'd be being smart by have their 3D printers print money, there by making money worthless. In this thought experiment, I want to be part of and explore the sharing/open community, because I don't think a community that hides its best (and only assets), it's ideas, when production costs don't exist won't be able to grow as fast as a community that shares. When the key resources, and those that provide the basic necessities, are unlimited, there's no reason not to share.

camccann 17y ago
If you had a replicator that could produce anything, why would you need money at all? Even if manufacturing becomes effectively free, resources won't. You'll still need energy and raw materials. There wouldn't even be markets as we know them today where an inventor could command really high fees. Just like the internet made the market for copyrighted information go away, right?
- kiba 17y ago
  Just like the internet made the market for copyrighted information go away, right? Most people are afraid to experiment without copyright and does not have a business model to exploit a non-copyright paradigm. However it does not mean that a non-copyright or at least copyright without much competitive deterrent would not thrive. Indeed, the open source software industry is one huge example. RedHat, for example effectively does not deter competitors from making copies of their distribution and selling it. However they still make lot of money. Arduino, an open source hardware platform, is another example. Chinese manufacturers copied their design, but the firm behind arduino still manages to sell a boatload of them.
- joe_the_user 17y ago
  Even if manufacturing becomes effectively free, resources won't. You'll still need energy and raw materials. Uh, print space ship, print fusion reactor, No, if you can make anything, then everything would be free. Of course, states would be first in line for the omnipotent power, so things wouldn't necessarily be easy...
- joe_the_user 17y ago
  Just like the internet made the market for copyrighted information go away, right? The Internet has torn big chunks in this market and remaining players of old media seem determined to stop this even if it means killing the net. Things haven't settled down and I don't think they will for a while...
kiba 17y ago
If you had a replicator that could produce anything, why would you need money at all? There wouldn't even be markets as we know them today where an inventor could command really high fees. And without needing money, you wouldn't need the government enforced monopoly that is patents to allow restricted exploitation of an idea. The only market that might be left, assuming the replicator machine is duplicated enough, is the commodity and energy market, or the sale of extremely rare and exotic materials. In anycase, people still make money off open hardware these day. Besides, stupid people would think they'd be being smart by have their 3D printers print money, there by making money worthless. It would mean that form of money is inferior. If there are still markets left, it would still mean that the phenomena of money will still arise. In this thought experiment, I want to be part of and explore the sharing/open community, because I don't think a community that hides its best (and only assets), it's ideas, when production costs don't exist won't be able to grow as fast as a community that shares. When the key resources, and those that provide the basic necessities, are unlimited, there's no reason not to share. Indeed, this is the superior choice for those who wish for economic progress and greater wealth in general. It would seem that today, my thought experiment seem fail in many way to demonstrate what I proposed to demonstrate, because I jump around making too many assumptions and leaps. My argument would stick more if I use present day maker communities, open source hardware and their manufacturer and firms.
- joe_the_user 17y ago
  The only market that might be left, assuming the replicator machine is duplicated enough, is the commodity and energy market, or the sale of extremely rare and exotic materials. No, there would obviously be no market whatsoever at that point. The step for making most useful things to make absolutely anything will be much smaller than the step from here to making most useful things. The problem is that without trade or mutual dependence, people might relate in the other most common manner we have - war, with new, ultra-powerful weapons. Not a pleasant thought. There are a number steps which essentially lead to the "singularity". Once you are there, ALL the old assumptions break down. Citing what people have generally done in the past will no longer make any sense. This isn't to say that it will Hell or Heaven but it will be intense. It's not by any means certain that the human beings will get to The Singularity . But there are a number of achievements one can specify such that if we reach these levels, then The Singularity will become virtually inevitable. A machine which produce itself and a variety of useful objects is one of these levels.
joe_the_user 17y ago
If you had a replicator that could produce anything, why would you need money at all? It would be an interesting world. I suppose people could print some new planets if the earth got too crowded. They could print willing slaves to serve them on their new planets. The possibilities are rather extreme indeed. Information would probably be nice to share but that could happen in an interplanetary fashion. Of course, people would get bored and the only thing left to do would be for people to put themselves back into a very exact simulation of a world where they had challenges, limitations and ignorance. Indeed, they could temporarily program themselves to forget their omnipotence. Does this sound like a lot of religious beliefs? One might even imagine that we, at present, are living out a life...

camccann 17y ago

If you had a replicator that could produce anything, why would you need money at all? Even if manufacturing becomes effectively free, resources won't. You'll still need energy and raw materials. There wouldn't even be markets as we know them today where an inventor could command really high fees. Just like the internet made the market for copyrighted information go away, right?

kiba 17y ago
Just like the internet made the market for copyrighted information go away, right? Most people are afraid to experiment without copyright and does not have a business model to exploit a non-copyright paradigm. However it does not mean that a non-copyright or at least copyright without much competitive deterrent would not thrive. Indeed, the open source software industry is one huge example. RedHat, for example effectively does not deter competitors from making copies of their distribution and selling it. However they still make lot of money. Arduino, an open source hardware platform, is another example. Chinese manufacturers copied their design, but the firm behind arduino still manages to sell a boatload of them.
joe_the_user 17y ago
Even if manufacturing becomes effectively free, resources won't. You'll still need energy and raw materials. Uh, print space ship, print fusion reactor, No, if you can make anything, then everything would be free. Of course, states would be first in line for the omnipotent power, so things wouldn't necessarily be easy...
joe_the_user 17y ago
Just like the internet made the market for copyrighted information go away, right? The Internet has torn big chunks in this market and remaining players of old media seem determined to stop this even if it means killing the net. Things haven't settled down and I don't think they will for a while...

kiba 17y ago

If you had a replicator that could produce anything, why would you need money at all? There wouldn't even be markets as we know them today where an inventor could command really high fees. And without needing money, you wouldn't need the government enforced monopoly that is patents to allow restricted exploitation of an idea. The only market that might be left, assuming the replicator machine is duplicated enough, is the commodity and energy market, or the sale of extremely rare and exotic materials. In anycase, people still make money off open hardware these day. Besides, stupid people would think they'd be being smart by have their 3D printers print money, there by making money worthless. It would mean that form of money is inferior. If there are still markets left, it would still mean that the phenomena of money will still arise. In this thought experiment, I want to be part of and explore the sharing/open community, because I don't think a community that hides its best (and only assets), it's ideas, when production costs don't exist won't be able to grow as fast as a community that shares. When the key resources, and those that provide the basic necessities, are unlimited, there's no reason not to share. Indeed, this is the superior choice for those who wish for economic progress and greater wealth in general. It would seem that today, my thought experiment seem fail in many way to demonstrate what I proposed to demonstrate, because I jump around making too many assumptions and leaps. My argument would stick more if I use present day maker communities, open source hardware and their manufacturer and firms.

joe_the_user 17y ago
The only market that might be left, assuming the replicator machine is duplicated enough, is the commodity and energy market, or the sale of extremely rare and exotic materials. No, there would obviously be no market whatsoever at that point. The step for making most useful things to make absolutely anything will be much smaller than the step from here to making most useful things. The problem is that without trade or mutual dependence, people might relate in the other most common manner we have - war, with new, ultra-powerful weapons. Not a pleasant thought. There are a number steps which essentially lead to the "singularity". Once you are there, ALL the old assumptions break down. Citing what people have generally done in the past will no longer make any sense. This isn't to say that it will Hell or Heaven but it will be intense. It's not by any means certain that the human beings will get to The Singularity . But there are a number of achievements one can specify such that if we reach these levels, then The Singularity will become virtually inevitable. A machine which produce itself and a variety of useful objects is one of these levels.

joe_the_user 17y ago

If you had a replicator that could produce anything, why would you need money at all? It would be an interesting world. I suppose people could print some new planets if the earth got too crowded. They could print willing slaves to serve them on their new planets. The possibilities are rather extreme indeed. Information would probably be nice to share but that could happen in an interplanetary fashion. Of course, people would get bored and the only thing left to do would be for people to put themselves back into a very exact simulation of a world where they had challenges, limitations and ignorance. Indeed, they could temporarily program themselves to forget their omnipotence. Does this sound like a lot of religious beliefs? One might even imagine that we, at present, are living out a life...