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It was jaw dropping for me to see how high handed American telocs are, when I first experienced it. I took a friend's phone and tried to make a wifi hotspot. I

It was jaw dropping for me to see how high handed American telocs are, when I first experienced it. I took a friend's phone and tried to make a wifi hotspot. I was shell shocked as AT&T popup announced that I cannot do that! Try doing this in India and no consumer would touch your phone. Contracts are not allowed in India. I am mildly proud that third world country telcos are much more open compared to western ones

neom 10y ago
The American telco industry became a race to the bottom, not a race of innovation.
- gst 10y ago
  IMO T-Mobile is somewhat of an exception there (or at least they have good marketing which makes me believe that they are an exception :).
  - matt_wulfeck 10y ago
    Even Tmo still employees questionable billing practices, where they try and pass off as many fees as possible as "taxes"
  - ericfrederich 10y ago
    This was true years ago but less and less as time passes. Buy a phone from TMobile and it'll have the Android built-in tethering removed and their crapware installed. Today even with a Nexus phone from Google (no TM software installed) you still have to jump through hoops to tether. Also, their CEO is kind of a dick, and seems childish on Twitter after the whole EFF thing.
    - lotyrin 10y ago
      Since when? TMobile US? I've had Nexus and iPhone devices on multiple TMobile plans, never had any trouble tethering: just turn it on like normal for the OS. The only thing I've had happen was I think I remember some years back, I was on a grandfathered unlimited plan from before smartphones and tethering were ubiquitous, they started new plans with unlimited data+tethering and if I tethered too much it'd redirect to a captive page saying "please don't" and throttle me pretty heavily to convince me to switch, but the Simple Choice plan I have now is actually cheaper than that plan was.
    - unethical_ban 10y ago
      I also disagree. I have a 5X and hotspot works perfectly.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - MichaelGG 10y ago
      That's mostly Google's fault. They added a feature sometime in 4.x that respects some sort of flag set in the APN. It tells it to disable NAT. Root and manually add an iptables rule and you're good to go. Rather lame Google would intentionally cripple something on the client side.
    - JohnTHaller 10y ago
      The Nexus 6 was sold by T-Mobile directly and has the stock standard tethering stuff within (with no T-Mobile-specific tethering software). I'm running one right now. Standard ROM it came with (OTA updated to 6.0.1 + May 2016 update), stock, unrooted.
    - khedoros 10y ago
      > Today even with a Nexus phone from Google (no TM software installed) you still have to jump through hoops to tether. Hi, I turned on my direct-from-Google Nexus 5's hotspot, connected my laptop, and posted this comment. T-Mobile's my provider, and I don't have any of their software on my phone. I also haven't taken any special steps to enable it (just the usual change in the settings menu). I'm curious which "hoops" you're referring to.
  - covercash 10y ago
    I've been nothing but impressed with TMO. Back in my Sidekick 1/2 days they were pretty good... jumped to ATT for original iPhone and stuck with them until iPhone 6 when I switched back to TMO. Very pleased with everything about them once again.
    - i2shar 10y ago
      I've been a happy T-mobile customer for years. Am on their $30 prepaid (unlimited data 5G at LTE speeds, 100 minutes) plan on Nexus phones. Have never bought "subsidized" carrier phones. 100 MB tethering (excluding HTTPs and VPN traffic) is included, which serves my needs. Ported my main number to Google Voice and all my calls go over data. Coverage has never been an issue either. Highly recommend T-mobile.
      - gst 10y ago
        Yes - I used that plan too and it works great. Only minor issue is that it doesn't provide domestic data roaming in case there's no native T-Mobile coverage. But if you're in an area that has good T-Mobile coverage and if you're not doing a lot of phone calls this plan is definitely one of the best options. Also afaik T-Mobile officially states that only 100MB of tethering is included, but it seems that they haven't enforced this for some time now.
  - toomuchtodo 10y ago
    Here here. Have been a happy customer of theirs for almost 17 years, and they never disappoint (Edge data in ~170 countries, BingeOn, etc).
  - brink 10y ago
    T-Mobile locked my bootloader on my Galaxy S7. I was impressed with them up until then.
  - ryao 10y ago
    Try signing up in a T-Mobile store without a credit check. My experience is that they will lie to you about it not existing until you go sign up on their website. Then they suddenly had always known about it. Then they will fail to automatically bill your credit card. They will disable your device each month requiring you to call them to straighten things out until you cancel. If the device is a hotspot that you use occasionally, this results in you never having it working until you need it. He when you cancel, they will send you a ~$6 refund on a gift card and then a bill for the ~$6. Then they will refuse to process payment over the phone should you fail to remember some number for a cancelled account because they think you might be trying to fradulently pay a bill. That was my experience with t-mobile in a nutshell. Also, their employees will lie about their credit check not being a hard pull on your credit report that harms your credit. The Internet has plenty of reports to the contrary. Having your credit run for a hotspot like they want to do is ridiculous. No MNVO ever required once from me. That said, T-Mobile's network is fairly good here in NY. Their customer service and sales are horrible though. I am not sure if the others are much better as I have not interacted with them much. My first cell phone was on Virgin Mobile USA, which spared me from experiencing this nonsense until later in life.
    - jrockway 10y ago
      I went to a T-Mobile store in the Nexus 4 era to get a prepaid SIM card. No credit check. I gave them $80 and they gave me a SIM card with unlimited everything. When the 30 days were over it stopped working until I made an account to give them more money. No credit check.
      - ryao 10y ago
        In that case, my experience last year was not a hard rule. It definitely was one of the worst experiences that I have ever had with any company though.
  - Bluestrike2 10y ago
    Even at their worst, T-Mobile is worlds beyond AT&T and Verizon. That's not really a very high bar to clear, but I'm a lot more comfortable after switching from AT&T to T-Mobile. It seems like every month I was fighting with AT&T's billing department over the same stupid issue.
bayofpigs 10y ago
So true. It's easy to forget one of Apple's greatest accomplishments is breaking the telecom industries stranglehold as mobile software gatekeepers. Telecoms along with cable are still two of the biggest impediments to technology progress in the US.
- Nullabillity 10y ago
  .. what? Here they were the first phone (and only, because as it turns out, that business model doesn't work) to be exclusively offered through a single carrier.
  - bayofpigs 10y ago
    Right, and they signed that exclusive agreement with AT&T as compensation to allow the iPhone on their network. Before this agreement, mobile phone software in the US had to be approved and provisioned through the carriers.
djrogers 10y ago
A) the tethering issue hasn't been the case for years, and was mostly related to unlimited or uncapped data plans B) The article isn't even about America, or American telcos.
- unethical_ban 10y ago
  On my iPhone 6 for work, if I try to hotspot, in told to contact ATT. US.
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
    This is not the case on current AT&T consumer smartphone plans and hasn't been for quite some time. OTOH, it was true on lots of older plans; it might either still be true on business plans or your employer may be on an old plan (AT&T doesn't tend to force people off old, bad plans when new, better plans come out, and just leave them on the old ones that aren't offered anymore until they actively choose to switch off them.)
  - evgen 10y ago
    For almost all corporate mobile plans the data is billed on a meter, so the company has the option of turning off tethering for their accounts. Talk to your company IT folks and see if the limit is due to plan or because they wanted to limit your data spend on the account.
demarq 10y ago
I totally agree. I'm from Kenya and reading this comment section is jaw dropping. A Telco blocking features of a phone, any features is like stealing from you. I buy an LG or Samsung for the features listed on the box or website and if I found a feature to be missing the box and phone will be promptly returned and I'd demand my money back, and contract canceled! It's just an unthinkable thing for a Telco to do.
- pki 10y ago
  > I'd demand my money back, and contract canceled $500 early termination fee, 8-12 weeks for a "partial refund" via cheque ;)
- khedoros 10y ago
  Generally, people in the U.S. buy a phone from the telco itself, and specific companies customize the software and packaging of their phones. Sometimes, different models are produced for sale by specific telcos. I understand and agree with the outrage you feel, but the status quo is powerful and slow to change. There are telcos that explicitly provide tethering in their plans as a standard feature, and bringing an outside device to operate with the telco is easier than it used to be, so maybe things are starting to shift.
  - unlinker 10y ago
    Not on Verizon, though.
    - nommm-nommm 10y ago
      I tether with my stock Verizon phone purchased from Verizon, no problem.
      - unlinker 10y ago
        Hm, I meant as far as I know you can't bring your own phone to Verizon.
branchless 10y ago
Contracts keep you to extract value. Mature economies have more efficient rent extraction. That is why growth stalls.
- xkiwi 10y ago
  Contracts bind you and the services with a fixed price, regardless on the value and emerge competitors.
akhilcacharya 10y ago
Wait..was this a modern phone recently? That's ridiculous. I've been buying unlocked for the last 3 years, so I've been able to avoid this.
6t6t6t6 10y ago
In Japan (except with some minor providers), your contract is linked to a concrete terminal. If you break your terminal, you must buy a new one from the company that is providing you the service. Also, if you want to use iPhone, you must get a contract with Softbank.
- chipperyman573 10y ago
  >Concrete terminal? What do you mean? >You must get a contract with SoftBank Why? What do they offer that requires a contract? I'm not doubting you, but everything I can find online is poorly-translated pages that don't tell me much.
  - khedoros 10y ago
    I think that they mean that you need a carrier-provided device, rather than bringing your own and popping in a SIM. As for the iPhone SoftBank thing: I'm assuming that they're the only Japanese carrier that provides the iPhone (Wikipedia's page on SoftBank says that starting with the iPhone 4S, it's available through KDDI as well, so maybe the previous commenter's information is out of date?)
    - ryao 10y ago
      SoftBank uses CDMA and LTE. I assume that they use SIM cards for LTE.
      - rangibaby 10y ago
        AFAIK the only way to get a SoftBank SIM is with a SoftBank phone. I walked into a SoftBank store many years ago and tried to buy a SIM for my phone, they thought it was very cute.
    - rangibaby 10y ago
      As of the iPhone 5-ish the three major carriers (SoftBank, au, docomo) have all had the iPhone. They are uniformly terrible (onerous contract terms, expensive, low data caps, etc). Their greed has fueled an explosion of free wifi spots, and a resurgence of smaller carriers now that people are getting wise to their BS.
jalami 10y ago
Yeah, it's pretty bad. American telcos operate on their own terms and most people don't seem to care. It's one of those household jokes. Everyone knows they suck but everyone needs data and coverage, no viable competition in sight. I had to root my phone and add a flag to the com.android.prodivers.settings.db file. Now all tethering packets look like mobile packets. All this to get a feature I should have in the first place. I'm also probably breaking some contractual condition. I'm optimistic that providers are moving away from the phone with data concept to the just data, bring us a phone concept and it can't happen soon enough. Less bundling, less bloat, less control of my device a telco has the better. There are still plenty of other real barriers, but it's a start.
- Frondo 10y ago
  I paid $50 for a Nokia phone from T-Mobile (bought with cash at a K-Mart! I didn't even know those were still around!) and have no contract, $40 a month, and tethering is included. The market might be (slowly) responding...
  - orkoden 10y ago
    Prices in the US and Canada are ridiculous if you've been to Europe. Germany is one of the worst telecom markets in Europe, but you can get 2 GB of data, unlimited calls, unlimited texts for 12.99 € without contract. In France you pay 19.99 € without contract for unlimited calls, unlimited SMS and MMS, and 50 GB. The main difference is how the market is regulated. Better regulation leads to lower prices for consumer.
    - chillingeffect 10y ago
      Not to defend large telcos, god knows i hate them myself, but one of the big differences between the US and Europe (besides us being drooling, knee-biting, mollified king-and-celebrity worshiping consumers with no comprehension of the meaning of our own rights) is geography. Historically, networks of all kinds, including energy and data have a longer gradient to reach rural areas which necessarily incur larger costs and more capital to roll out. I think this should be factored into it, but accounts for less than 50% of the difference. We're friendlier to monopolies ("Hey! They earned it! dur") in the U.S., too.
throwawaykf05 10y ago
Maybe they can afford to because they've figured out other ways to screw the public? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2G_spectrum_scam https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2G_spectrum_scam
- hoof_marks 10y ago
  But did you actually read beyond the first few lines: 'On 2 February 2012, the Supreme Court of India ruled on a public interest litigation (PIL) related to the 2G spectrum scam. The court declared the allotment of spectrum "unconstitutional and arbitrary", cancelling the 122 licenses..' In short the malpractice was arrested and licences of telcos cancelled. My personal experience (India) has been good as far as the telco regulator is concerned. They take personal interest in ensuring that telcos behave as per requirements and mandates as far as consumers are concerned.
tushar-r 10y ago
> Contracts are not allowed in India. They are allowed, they used to exist. Very few people are willing to use the contracts. It never made much sense because people use prepaid and don't want to be stuck to one carrier.
- markdown 10y ago
  Do you have number portability in India? Can you take your phone number with you when switching to a different carrier?
  - kermire 10y ago
    Yes, see: http://www.mnp.in/ http://www.mnp.in/
    - markdown 10y ago
      Thanks. I notice that BSNL is an option. Does that mean you can even port mobile numbers to landline and vice versa?
      - sridharpoduri 10y ago
        BSNL provides landline as well as mobile connections. MNP allows you to port your existing mobile number from another carrier to BSNL's mobile number.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
copperx 10y ago
Maybe in India they're better, but Mexican telcos are worse than American ones.
rayiner 10y ago
Do Indian carriers offer unlimited LTE? To my knowledge AT&T and Verizon only block hotspots on unlimited plans.
ryao 10y ago
I signed up with Ringplus. They sometimes give free tethering with their "free" service. So far, I have paid a one time top up on a plan that does not bill me and got tethering too, so I am happy with it. The price certainly was right. That said, I could make similiar remarks about telecommunications companies still charging for phone service given that I do not pay monthly bills for it anymore, yet have it. If RingPlus' advertising and freemium business model turns out to be sustainable, then I ought to still have "free" service a few years from now.
btgeekboy 10y ago
To be fair, it was a lot more common to prevent tethering on plans where data was unlimited. Many plans now let you tether all you'd like up to your plan's standard data allowance.
senthil_rajasek 10y ago
"I am mildly proud that third world country telcos..." Third world is not a politically correct phrase, developing world is a good compromise although not perfect still.
- unlinker 10y ago
  This is Hacker News, where we strive to be factually correct, not politically correct.
  - senthil_rajasek 10y ago
    HN comments guidelines say that you should be civil. Being politically incorrect is not civil. Again, "third world" is not a politically correct term.
    - unlinker 10y ago
      >Being politically incorrect is not civil. That is a false premise, especially taking into account the parent comment didn't intend to use "third world country" in a malicious but in a factually correct way.
      - senthil_rajasek 10y ago
        I am quoting the very first comment guideline. "Be civil. Don't say things you wouldn't say in a face-to-face conversation." I live in the U.S, I would never say third world country when talking to some one from another country in the developing world.
rdancer 10y ago
Don't they traffic shape and have much lower speeds, though? If everybody in a building used mobile data at the full speed, where would the telcos put the base stations? And since the frequency spectrum is shared, how many handsets can a 3G or 4G base station even accommodate at once at a full speed? Unlimited data with tethering is a recipe for disaster; capped data plans usually do have tethering.

neom 10y ago

The American telco industry became a race to the bottom, not a race of innovation.

gst 10y ago
IMO T-Mobile is somewhat of an exception there (or at least they have good marketing which makes me believe that they are an exception :).
- matt_wulfeck 10y ago
  Even Tmo still employees questionable billing practices, where they try and pass off as many fees as possible as "taxes"
- ericfrederich 10y ago
  This was true years ago but less and less as time passes. Buy a phone from TMobile and it'll have the Android built-in tethering removed and their crapware installed. Today even with a Nexus phone from Google (no TM software installed) you still have to jump through hoops to tether. Also, their CEO is kind of a dick, and seems childish on Twitter after the whole EFF thing.
  - lotyrin 10y ago
    Since when? TMobile US? I've had Nexus and iPhone devices on multiple TMobile plans, never had any trouble tethering: just turn it on like normal for the OS. The only thing I've had happen was I think I remember some years back, I was on a grandfathered unlimited plan from before smartphones and tethering were ubiquitous, they started new plans with unlimited data+tethering and if I tethered too much it'd redirect to a captive page saying "please don't" and throttle me pretty heavily to convince me to switch, but the Simple Choice plan I have now is actually cheaper than that plan was.
  - unethical_ban 10y ago
    I also disagree. I have a 5X and hotspot works perfectly.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - MichaelGG 10y ago
    That's mostly Google's fault. They added a feature sometime in 4.x that respects some sort of flag set in the APN. It tells it to disable NAT. Root and manually add an iptables rule and you're good to go. Rather lame Google would intentionally cripple something on the client side.
  - JohnTHaller 10y ago
    The Nexus 6 was sold by T-Mobile directly and has the stock standard tethering stuff within (with no T-Mobile-specific tethering software). I'm running one right now. Standard ROM it came with (OTA updated to 6.0.1 + May 2016 update), stock, unrooted.
  - khedoros 10y ago
    > Today even with a Nexus phone from Google (no TM software installed) you still have to jump through hoops to tether. Hi, I turned on my direct-from-Google Nexus 5's hotspot, connected my laptop, and posted this comment. T-Mobile's my provider, and I don't have any of their software on my phone. I also haven't taken any special steps to enable it (just the usual change in the settings menu). I'm curious which "hoops" you're referring to.
- covercash 10y ago
  I've been nothing but impressed with TMO. Back in my Sidekick 1/2 days they were pretty good... jumped to ATT for original iPhone and stuck with them until iPhone 6 when I switched back to TMO. Very pleased with everything about them once again.
  - i2shar 10y ago
    I've been a happy T-mobile customer for years. Am on their $30 prepaid (unlimited data 5G at LTE speeds, 100 minutes) plan on Nexus phones. Have never bought "subsidized" carrier phones. 100 MB tethering (excluding HTTPs and VPN traffic) is included, which serves my needs. Ported my main number to Google Voice and all my calls go over data. Coverage has never been an issue either. Highly recommend T-mobile.
    - gst 10y ago
      Yes - I used that plan too and it works great. Only minor issue is that it doesn't provide domestic data roaming in case there's no native T-Mobile coverage. But if you're in an area that has good T-Mobile coverage and if you're not doing a lot of phone calls this plan is definitely one of the best options. Also afaik T-Mobile officially states that only 100MB of tethering is included, but it seems that they haven't enforced this for some time now.
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  Here here. Have been a happy customer of theirs for almost 17 years, and they never disappoint (Edge data in ~170 countries, BingeOn, etc).
- brink 10y ago
  T-Mobile locked my bootloader on my Galaxy S7. I was impressed with them up until then.
- ryao 10y ago
  Try signing up in a T-Mobile store without a credit check. My experience is that they will lie to you about it not existing until you go sign up on their website. Then they suddenly had always known about it. Then they will fail to automatically bill your credit card. They will disable your device each month requiring you to call them to straighten things out until you cancel. If the device is a hotspot that you use occasionally, this results in you never having it working until you need it. He when you cancel, they will send you a ~$6 refund on a gift card and then a bill for the ~$6. Then they will refuse to process payment over the phone should you fail to remember some number for a cancelled account because they think you might be trying to fradulently pay a bill. That was my experience with t-mobile in a nutshell. Also, their employees will lie about their credit check not being a hard pull on your credit report that harms your credit. The Internet has plenty of reports to the contrary. Having your credit run for a hotspot like they want to do is ridiculous. No MNVO ever required once from me. That said, T-Mobile's network is fairly good here in NY. Their customer service and sales are horrible though. I am not sure if the others are much better as I have not interacted with them much. My first cell phone was on Virgin Mobile USA, which spared me from experiencing this nonsense until later in life.
  - jrockway 10y ago
    I went to a T-Mobile store in the Nexus 4 era to get a prepaid SIM card. No credit check. I gave them $80 and they gave me a SIM card with unlimited everything. When the 30 days were over it stopped working until I made an account to give them more money. No credit check.
    - ryao 10y ago
      In that case, my experience last year was not a hard rule. It definitely was one of the worst experiences that I have ever had with any company though.
- Bluestrike2 10y ago
  Even at their worst, T-Mobile is worlds beyond AT&T and Verizon. That's not really a very high bar to clear, but I'm a lot more comfortable after switching from AT&T to T-Mobile. It seems like every month I was fighting with AT&T's billing department over the same stupid issue.

bayofpigs 10y ago

So true. It's easy to forget one of Apple's greatest accomplishments is breaking the telecom industries stranglehold as mobile software gatekeepers. Telecoms along with cable are still two of the biggest impediments to technology progress in the US.

Nullabillity 10y ago
.. what? Here they were the first phone (and only, because as it turns out, that business model doesn't work) to be exclusively offered through a single carrier.
- bayofpigs 10y ago
  Right, and they signed that exclusive agreement with AT&T as compensation to allow the iPhone on their network. Before this agreement, mobile phone software in the US had to be approved and provisioned through the carriers.

djrogers 10y ago

A) the tethering issue hasn't been the case for years, and was mostly related to unlimited or uncapped data plans B) The article isn't even about America, or American telcos.

unethical_ban 10y ago
On my iPhone 6 for work, if I try to hotspot, in told to contact ATT. US.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  This is not the case on current AT&T consumer smartphone plans and hasn't been for quite some time. OTOH, it was true on lots of older plans; it might either still be true on business plans or your employer may be on an old plan (AT&T doesn't tend to force people off old, bad plans when new, better plans come out, and just leave them on the old ones that aren't offered anymore until they actively choose to switch off them.)
- evgen 10y ago
  For almost all corporate mobile plans the data is billed on a meter, so the company has the option of turning off tethering for their accounts. Talk to your company IT folks and see if the limit is due to plan or because they wanted to limit your data spend on the account.

demarq 10y ago

I totally agree. I'm from Kenya and reading this comment section is jaw dropping. A Telco blocking features of a phone, any features is like stealing from you. I buy an LG or Samsung for the features listed on the box or website and if I found a feature to be missing the box and phone will be promptly returned and I'd demand my money back, and contract canceled! It's just an unthinkable thing for a Telco to do.

pki 10y ago
> I'd demand my money back, and contract canceled $500 early termination fee, 8-12 weeks for a "partial refund" via cheque ;)
khedoros 10y ago
Generally, people in the U.S. buy a phone from the telco itself, and specific companies customize the software and packaging of their phones. Sometimes, different models are produced for sale by specific telcos. I understand and agree with the outrage you feel, but the status quo is powerful and slow to change. There are telcos that explicitly provide tethering in their plans as a standard feature, and bringing an outside device to operate with the telco is easier than it used to be, so maybe things are starting to shift.
- unlinker 10y ago
  Not on Verizon, though.
  - nommm-nommm 10y ago
    I tether with my stock Verizon phone purchased from Verizon, no problem.
    - unlinker 10y ago
      Hm, I meant as far as I know you can't bring your own phone to Verizon.

branchless 10y ago

Contracts keep you to extract value. Mature economies have more efficient rent extraction. That is why growth stalls.

xkiwi 10y ago
Contracts bind you and the services with a fixed price, regardless on the value and emerge competitors.

akhilcacharya 10y ago

Wait..was this a modern phone recently? That's ridiculous. I've been buying unlocked for the last 3 years, so I've been able to avoid this.

6t6t6t6 10y ago

In Japan (except with some minor providers), your contract is linked to a concrete terminal. If you break your terminal, you must buy a new one from the company that is providing you the service. Also, if you want to use iPhone, you must get a contract with Softbank.

chipperyman573 10y ago
>Concrete terminal? What do you mean? >You must get a contract with SoftBank Why? What do they offer that requires a contract? I'm not doubting you, but everything I can find online is poorly-translated pages that don't tell me much.
- khedoros 10y ago
  I think that they mean that you need a carrier-provided device, rather than bringing your own and popping in a SIM. As for the iPhone SoftBank thing: I'm assuming that they're the only Japanese carrier that provides the iPhone (Wikipedia's page on SoftBank says that starting with the iPhone 4S, it's available through KDDI as well, so maybe the previous commenter's information is out of date?)
  - ryao 10y ago
    SoftBank uses CDMA and LTE. I assume that they use SIM cards for LTE.
    - rangibaby 10y ago
      AFAIK the only way to get a SoftBank SIM is with a SoftBank phone. I walked into a SoftBank store many years ago and tried to buy a SIM for my phone, they thought it was very cute.
  - rangibaby 10y ago
    As of the iPhone 5-ish the three major carriers (SoftBank, au, docomo) have all had the iPhone. They are uniformly terrible (onerous contract terms, expensive, low data caps, etc). Their greed has fueled an explosion of free wifi spots, and a resurgence of smaller carriers now that people are getting wise to their BS.

jalami 10y ago

Yeah, it's pretty bad. American telcos operate on their own terms and most people don't seem to care. It's one of those household jokes. Everyone knows they suck but everyone needs data and coverage, no viable competition in sight. I had to root my phone and add a flag to the com.android.prodivers.settings.db file. Now all tethering packets look like mobile packets. All this to get a feature I should have in the first place. I'm also probably breaking some contractual condition. I'm optimistic that providers are moving away from the phone with data concept to the just data, bring us a phone concept and it can't happen soon enough. Less bundling, less bloat, less control of my device a telco has the better. There are still plenty of other real barriers, but it's a start.

Frondo 10y ago
I paid $50 for a Nokia phone from T-Mobile (bought with cash at a K-Mart! I didn't even know those were still around!) and have no contract, $40 a month, and tethering is included. The market might be (slowly) responding...
- orkoden 10y ago
  Prices in the US and Canada are ridiculous if you've been to Europe. Germany is one of the worst telecom markets in Europe, but you can get 2 GB of data, unlimited calls, unlimited texts for 12.99 € without contract. In France you pay 19.99 € without contract for unlimited calls, unlimited SMS and MMS, and 50 GB. The main difference is how the market is regulated. Better regulation leads to lower prices for consumer.
  - chillingeffect 10y ago
    Not to defend large telcos, god knows i hate them myself, but one of the big differences between the US and Europe (besides us being drooling, knee-biting, mollified king-and-celebrity worshiping consumers with no comprehension of the meaning of our own rights) is geography. Historically, networks of all kinds, including energy and data have a longer gradient to reach rural areas which necessarily incur larger costs and more capital to roll out. I think this should be factored into it, but accounts for less than 50% of the difference. We're friendlier to monopolies ("Hey! They earned it! dur") in the U.S., too.

throwawaykf05 10y ago

Maybe they can afford to because they've figured out other ways to screw the public? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2G_spectrum_scam https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2G_spectrum_scam

hoof_marks 10y ago
But did you actually read beyond the first few lines: 'On 2 February 2012, the Supreme Court of India ruled on a public interest litigation (PIL) related to the 2G spectrum scam. The court declared the allotment of spectrum "unconstitutional and arbitrary", cancelling the 122 licenses..' In short the malpractice was arrested and licences of telcos cancelled. My personal experience (India) has been good as far as the telco regulator is concerned. They take personal interest in ensuring that telcos behave as per requirements and mandates as far as consumers are concerned.

tushar-r 10y ago

> Contracts are not allowed in India. They are allowed, they used to exist. Very few people are willing to use the contracts. It never made much sense because people use prepaid and don't want to be stuck to one carrier.

markdown 10y ago
Do you have number portability in India? Can you take your phone number with you when switching to a different carrier?
- kermire 10y ago
  Yes, see: http://www.mnp.in/ http://www.mnp.in/
  - markdown 10y ago
    Thanks. I notice that BSNL is an option. Does that mean you can even port mobile numbers to landline and vice versa?
    - sridharpoduri 10y ago
      BSNL provides landline as well as mobile connections. MNP allows you to port your existing mobile number from another carrier to BSNL's mobile number.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

copperx 10y ago

Maybe in India they're better, but Mexican telcos are worse than American ones.

rayiner 10y ago

Do Indian carriers offer unlimited LTE? To my knowledge AT&T and Verizon only block hotspots on unlimited plans.

ryao 10y ago

I signed up with Ringplus. They sometimes give free tethering with their "free" service. So far, I have paid a one time top up on a plan that does not bill me and got tethering too, so I am happy with it. The price certainly was right. That said, I could make similiar remarks about telecommunications companies still charging for phone service given that I do not pay monthly bills for it anymore, yet have it. If RingPlus' advertising and freemium business model turns out to be sustainable, then I ought to still have "free" service a few years from now.

btgeekboy 10y ago

To be fair, it was a lot more common to prevent tethering on plans where data was unlimited. Many plans now let you tether all you'd like up to your plan's standard data allowance.

senthil_rajasek 10y ago

"I am mildly proud that third world country telcos..." Third world is not a politically correct phrase, developing world is a good compromise although not perfect still.

unlinker 10y ago
This is Hacker News, where we strive to be factually correct, not politically correct.
- senthil_rajasek 10y ago
  HN comments guidelines say that you should be civil. Being politically incorrect is not civil. Again, "third world" is not a politically correct term.
  - unlinker 10y ago
    >Being politically incorrect is not civil. That is a false premise, especially taking into account the parent comment didn't intend to use "third world country" in a malicious but in a factually correct way.
    - senthil_rajasek 10y ago
      I am quoting the very first comment guideline. "Be civil. Don't say things you wouldn't say in a face-to-face conversation." I live in the U.S, I would never say third world country when talking to some one from another country in the developing world.

rdancer 10y ago

Don't they traffic shape and have much lower speeds, though? If everybody in a building used mobile data at the full speed, where would the telcos put the base stations? And since the frequency spectrum is shared, how many handsets can a 3G or 4G base station even accommodate at once at a full speed? Unlimited data with tethering is a recipe for disaster; capped data plans usually do have tethering.