5 ms·

I don't. I think people who do are crazy.

by ohazi 10y ago

dreamcompiler 10y ago
Judgmental tone notwithstanding, I resonate with this. The idea of an always-on, always-connected gizmo that I can't audit and that listens to everything in my house gives me the creeps. Why are security-aware people not bothered by this idea? Am I missing something?
- archgoon 10y ago
  Hi, The echo does allow you to see a history of all previous recordings sent to Amazon (Settings > History), along with the actual voice samples that were sent. Now granted, I don't think you'd be able to ensure that all packets that were sent corresponded to what is displayed there, but you can estimate it based on the sizes of packets and maximum data that could be sent. Would a proxy server that you controlled resolve your concerns? Or is it more "I don't know what's happening on the backend"?
  - amelius 10y ago
    > The echo does allow you to see a history of all previous recordings sent to Amazon (Settings > History), along with the actual voice samples that were sent. Wow, that makes it even more creepy. Imagine e.g. your significant other accessing this log and finding things they aren't supposed to find.
    - archgoon 10y ago
      You are able to delete items from this log; this is no different than your browser's search history. You simply cannot have this both ways though; you can either be ephermal, or you can be auditable. I personally find the log to be very useful and interesting (as well as a free annotation source for my own projects). I guess the main take away from this thread is that some people are just going to be creeped out by this sort of technology. And that's okay.
    - camel_Snake 10y ago
      What exactly would you be asking Alexa that would be sensitive to your SO?
  - dreamcompiler 10y ago
    Thanks. I wasn't aware of the history feature. It's not a complete solution, but it helps.
- wepple 10y ago
  > Why are security-aware people not bothered by this idea? I personally don't think we can stop the tide of devices like this. I'm very selective about which devices & services I choose to partake in. > gizmo that I can't audit This is where I believe we can have some potential (if minimal) input. Granted, once it's in 'the cloud' we've lost all control, but at a minimum I think we're going to continue to see a rise in tooling to be able to critically assess the devices we have in our lives.
- endergen 10y ago
  Do you not use a mobile phone? An always on device that has a 4G connection and is strapped to your body?
  - dreamcompiler 10y ago
    That device only listens after I explicitly engage with it physically. If it decides to listen passively, that's a bug. With Alexa, it's a feature.
    - mod 10y ago
      That you know of. It's been the topic of much discussion that it can probably be listened to at-will by some 3-letter agencies. It probably isn't, though, and there's almost certainly not a preserved history unless it's on.
    - squeaky-clean 10y ago
      "Ok, Google" and "Ok, Siri" integration is built into all new iPhones and most new Android devices. Also in these scenarios, all of these devices (Alexa, Android, iPhone) are only locally listening for a wake word, usually using dedicated hardware to detect it. Until you say the wake word, nothing you say is being saved or sent to the network. You can verify this by monitoring your network.
- anexprogrammer 10y ago
  That's always been my take on these things. I keep hoping that some security/NSA/privacy aware company will come up with some equivalents that we can trust to stay local. Then give us a controlling app to only open up certain actions to Internet. This applies to the whole IoT, but doubly so for always-on voice gizmos. e.g. Go WAN when you say "Internet search flights ..." or "google ..." otherwise stay local. I'd pay more for that. I'm almost ready to conclude IoT is not going to be for me.
  - czottmann 10y ago
    That is exactly the reason why I backed the ZOE. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/protonet-zoe-start-your-secure-smart-home-now#/ https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/protonet-zoe-start-your-s... Because an always-on Amazon device in my home would be creepy.
    - anexprogrammer 10y ago
      That looks really promising. If it hadn't closed just yesterday I could see myself backing that too. Definitely one to watch.
  - dreamcompiler 10y ago
    Agree 100%. Good speaker-dependent voice recognition ought to be doable locally now. Training would be needed so it would be less plug-and-play than Echo, but that's a price I'd be willing to pay for privacy.
- hosh 10y ago
  That's how I felt about it when I first heard it, and dismissed it. Lately, I recognize that this is the leading edge of another shift in how we interface with computing. (Chat bot assistants/voice interfaces). I also missed the fact that you can extend Alexa and customize it by adding skills or writing your own skills. So I'm seriously considering getting one and playing with it, to stay in tune with the way our society is moving. When the first iphone came on, I also recognized it as a shift. However, I stubbornly stuck with my feature phone for years. There was the same paranoia of being tracked everywhere with the iphone, and I felt uncomfortable about it. I eventually got an ipod touch, just so I could try it out. It wasn't until my feature phone was lost for good that I took the step to get an iphone, back in 2012. Very quickly, what I used to sit, fixated in front of my computer, I compacted into my phone. I watched how it shifted and changed the way I lived my life -- but also, mindfully decided what I want and what I didn't want. (I installed many instant messenger apps and got rid of messenging apps on my laptop, except for Slack -- but to this day, I don't have Facebook on my phone because I don't want to get sucked into it on the phone). Around that time, I was entering a new phase in my life, one that involved dropping a lot of the paranoia and junk in my head. So now, I recognized that same reaction with the Echo. It'll be interesting to give this a try.
ams6110 10y ago
I also don't and don't ever plan to get one. I don't have any home automation devices of any kind, as the ones I have tried (thermostats, mostly) have been abjectly useless and only made my life more complicated and frustrating. As to crazy, I'm more of the "to each his own."
cylinder 10y ago
It seems like one more thing to worry about. I don't see the point. I'd much rather someone invent a way for my dishwasher to load itself.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- malloryerik 10y ago
  With standardized dining ware it shouldn't be too hard. Do it :)

I don't. I think people who do are crazy.

by ohazi 10y ago

I don't. I think people who do are crazy.

Judgmental tone notwithstanding, I resonate with this. The idea of an always-on, always-connected gizmo that I can't audit and that listens to everything in my house gives me the creeps. Why are security-aware people not bothered by this idea? Am I missing something?

archgoon 10y ago
Hi, The echo does allow you to see a history of all previous recordings sent to Amazon (Settings > History), along with the actual voice samples that were sent. Now granted, I don't think you'd be able to ensure that all packets that were sent corresponded to what is displayed there, but you can estimate it based on the sizes of packets and maximum data that could be sent. Would a proxy server that you controlled resolve your concerns? Or is it more "I don't know what's happening on the backend"?
- amelius 10y ago
  > The echo does allow you to see a history of all previous recordings sent to Amazon (Settings > History), along with the actual voice samples that were sent. Wow, that makes it even more creepy. Imagine e.g. your significant other accessing this log and finding things they aren't supposed to find.
  - archgoon 10y ago
    You are able to delete items from this log; this is no different than your browser's search history. You simply cannot have this both ways though; you can either be ephermal, or you can be auditable. I personally find the log to be very useful and interesting (as well as a free annotation source for my own projects). I guess the main take away from this thread is that some people are just going to be creeped out by this sort of technology. And that's okay.
  - camel_Snake 10y ago
    What exactly would you be asking Alexa that would be sensitive to your SO?
- dreamcompiler 10y ago
  Thanks. I wasn't aware of the history feature. It's not a complete solution, but it helps.
wepple 10y ago
> Why are security-aware people not bothered by this idea? I personally don't think we can stop the tide of devices like this. I'm very selective about which devices & services I choose to partake in. > gizmo that I can't audit This is where I believe we can have some potential (if minimal) input. Granted, once it's in 'the cloud' we've lost all control, but at a minimum I think we're going to continue to see a rise in tooling to be able to critically assess the devices we have in our lives.
endergen 10y ago
Do you not use a mobile phone? An always on device that has a 4G connection and is strapped to your body?
- dreamcompiler 10y ago
  That device only listens after I explicitly engage with it physically. If it decides to listen passively, that's a bug. With Alexa, it's a feature.
  - mod 10y ago
    That you know of. It's been the topic of much discussion that it can probably be listened to at-will by some 3-letter agencies. It probably isn't, though, and there's almost certainly not a preserved history unless it's on.
  - squeaky-clean 10y ago
    "Ok, Google" and "Ok, Siri" integration is built into all new iPhones and most new Android devices. Also in these scenarios, all of these devices (Alexa, Android, iPhone) are only locally listening for a wake word, usually using dedicated hardware to detect it. Until you say the wake word, nothing you say is being saved or sent to the network. You can verify this by monitoring your network.
anexprogrammer 10y ago
That's always been my take on these things. I keep hoping that some security/NSA/privacy aware company will come up with some equivalents that we can trust to stay local. Then give us a controlling app to only open up certain actions to Internet. This applies to the whole IoT, but doubly so for always-on voice gizmos. e.g. Go WAN when you say "Internet search flights ..." or "google ..." otherwise stay local. I'd pay more for that. I'm almost ready to conclude IoT is not going to be for me.
- czottmann 10y ago
  That is exactly the reason why I backed the ZOE. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/protonet-zoe-start-your-secure-smart-home-now#/ https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/protonet-zoe-start-your-s... Because an always-on Amazon device in my home would be creepy.
  - anexprogrammer 10y ago
    That looks really promising. If it hadn't closed just yesterday I could see myself backing that too. Definitely one to watch.
- dreamcompiler 10y ago
  Agree 100%. Good speaker-dependent voice recognition ought to be doable locally now. Training would be needed so it would be less plug-and-play than Echo, but that's a price I'd be willing to pay for privacy.
hosh 10y ago
That's how I felt about it when I first heard it, and dismissed it. Lately, I recognize that this is the leading edge of another shift in how we interface with computing. (Chat bot assistants/voice interfaces). I also missed the fact that you can extend Alexa and customize it by adding skills or writing your own skills. So I'm seriously considering getting one and playing with it, to stay in tune with the way our society is moving. When the first iphone came on, I also recognized it as a shift. However, I stubbornly stuck with my feature phone for years. There was the same paranoia of being tracked everywhere with the iphone, and I felt uncomfortable about it. I eventually got an ipod touch, just so I could try it out. It wasn't until my feature phone was lost for good that I took the step to get an iphone, back in 2012. Very quickly, what I used to sit, fixated in front of my computer, I compacted into my phone. I watched how it shifted and changed the way I lived my life -- but also, mindfully decided what I want and what I didn't want. (I installed many instant messenger apps and got rid of messenging apps on my laptop, except for Slack -- but to this day, I don't have Facebook on my phone because I don't want to get sucked into it on the phone). Around that time, I was entering a new phase in my life, one that involved dropping a lot of the paranoia and junk in my head. So now, I recognized that same reaction with the Echo. It'll be interesting to give this a try.

ams6110 10y ago

I also don't and don't ever plan to get one. I don't have any home automation devices of any kind, as the ones I have tried (thermostats, mostly) have been abjectly useless and only made my life more complicated and frustrating. As to crazy, I'm more of the "to each his own."

cylinder 10y ago

It seems like one more thing to worry about. I don't see the point. I'd much rather someone invent a way for my dishwasher to load itself.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
malloryerik 10y ago
With standardized dining ware it shouldn't be too hard. Do it :)