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> CIA's policy is probably controlled by someone else, and that's where changes need to be made because I like to think they don't come up with the stuff on the

> CIA's policy is probably controlled by someone else, and that's where changes need to be made because I like to think they don't come up with the stuff on their own. Beyond you liking to think that, what evidence do you have that the CIA's policy is controlled by anyone other than the CIA's Deputy Director who commands internal operations, and its Director, who reports to the director of National Intelligence as well as having to answer to Congress and the White House? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Intelligence_Agency#Organizational_structure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Intelligence_Agency#Or... For the most part, theories of secret groups that control things are false, not counting well-known groups like the Masons, etc. that make secrecy part of their identity. There is plenty of evidence to support that Congress and the White House are lobbied heavily by outside interest, and that's no secret. Combine that with the varied interests and agendas in the involved organizations, human error, incorrect or misinterpreted information, etc. and you have plenty enough reason for things like this to go wrong. If you are an American citizen, and you believe the U.S. government is so wrong and misguided, nothing is typically stopping you from leaving the country or attempting to vote for others that might be able to make some changes, but the fact is that there is an extreme momentum of the country that is simultaneous chaotic and well-intentioned, so no matter who you vote for, things will typically continue on. Well- maybe not if Trump is elected, because the entire country could turn into a sideshow ;) , but this is true for the most part. If you live in another democratic country, vote for leaders that you believe will positively influence the U.S. in one way or another, or you can speak up about it. Belief in some shadowy group is just not helpful, and is a result of the imprint on the psyche from movies, television, and other media sources. There are real groups out there with influence, and real single players with influence, but it's really not that hidden; it's just complex.

cm3 10y ago
Not secret group, I don't believe in stuff. I should have been clearer and say that part of the government likely has a body which controls and influences the policy of the CIA. Sorry for my imprecise wording.
imglorp 10y ago
There are congressional intelligence oversight committees, who I'd like to think are aware of these things. More likely, there's a little golf club agreement now and then between some corporation or lobbying group and government agencies. For example, if you guys can help us with a little information and maybe a teensy overthrow, we'll give you some better terms on that spy sat you wanted.
- ck2 10y ago
  Is that like the congressional committee headed by and filled with people who don't believe in science? https://www.google.com/search?q=congress+committee+anti+science https://www.google.com/search?q=congress+committee+anti+scie... Why would you expect any other oversight committee in any other field be competent?
  - alienjr 10y ago
    Well, they were elected by a majority who doesn't believe in science. That's why it's strange that most of the people who believe in majority rule are surprised when democratic elections result in such outcomes.
    - kiba 10y ago
      They don't believe in scientific authorities when it contradict their religious authorities and other deeply held beliefs?
    - proksoup 10y ago
      Would an alternative be any better? Democracy seems the only way forward, the solution is education (difficult if not impossible). The mob is ignorant so pick someone smart to be in charge? How do you pick? Who decides? Maybe the smartest people are the ones who take power already. Really the money is in charge.
- Zigurd 10y ago
  Thing is, they're not, as we discovered when the Snowden revelations came to light. Intelligence agencies do, in fact, operate without proper oversight, and are run by means of informal channels to private interests with overseas assets to protect. That's been true since the Dulles brothers.
arca_vorago 10y ago
I think you are completely wrong about this. There is plenty of evidence to indicate that "shadow groups" of varied interests that sometimes align and sometimes dont, are often pulling the strings of "public puppets". Your view, while common, (especially in the academic world where conspiracy is avoided like the plague) doesnt seem to reflect reality. The conspiratorial view of history is the correct one. Would you like me to go into more detail?
- kangar00 10y ago
  > Would you like me to go into more detail? Sure.
- 467568985476 10y ago
  Please go into more detail. Start with the evidence.
  - matwood 10y ago
    But the evidence is secret! :)
    - WayneBro 10y ago
      I think this statement is hilarious. You tried to make fun of conspiracy theorists, but I have never heard a conspiracy theorist say that they "have evidence, but it's secret". The reason it's funny to me is because the only time I ever hear bout "secret evidence" is when I read about secret courts and prisons that the US government runs, such as the US Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. (LOL! It's so funny that people around the world can be prosecuted, killed and tortured because of secret evidence, isn't it?)
  - WayneBro 10y ago
    Could we start with asking you what kind of evidence would actually satisfy you? How much effort are you prepared to expend in questioning this? Honestly. What do you need to just to consider the small possibility that your view of things is the incorrect one? Do you want macro/micro/historical/current evidence and do you expect such evidence to be easily disseminated here or are you just asking without any of these things in mind? I guess we could start with the fact that it's proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that very few people control the economy in modern times - https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21228354-500-revealed-the-capitalist-network-that-runs-the-world/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21228354-500-revealed... We could also prove that for historical times. The evidence is there. It just takes a little work to dig through and a lot of reading. So, I suggest trying to look around on your own first. Read about the United Fruit Company. 1950's Iran. Rand Corporation. There's just so much out there already that I think anybody who hasn't read about this stuff by now must not really care.
justinwr 10y ago
Thank you.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
WayneBro 10y ago
> For the most part, theories of secret groups that control things are false... I'd like some evidence of that statement. If you have any evidence that the US is actually a democracy, that would be nice too.

cm3 10y ago

Not secret group, I don't believe in stuff. I should have been clearer and say that part of the government likely has a body which controls and influences the policy of the CIA. Sorry for my imprecise wording.

imglorp 10y ago

There are congressional intelligence oversight committees, who I'd like to think are aware of these things. More likely, there's a little golf club agreement now and then between some corporation or lobbying group and government agencies. For example, if you guys can help us with a little information and maybe a teensy overthrow, we'll give you some better terms on that spy sat you wanted.

ck2 10y ago
Is that like the congressional committee headed by and filled with people who don't believe in science? https://www.google.com/search?q=congress+committee+anti+science https://www.google.com/search?q=congress+committee+anti+scie... Why would you expect any other oversight committee in any other field be competent?
- alienjr 10y ago
  Well, they were elected by a majority who doesn't believe in science. That's why it's strange that most of the people who believe in majority rule are surprised when democratic elections result in such outcomes.
  - kiba 10y ago
    They don't believe in scientific authorities when it contradict their religious authorities and other deeply held beliefs?
  - proksoup 10y ago
    Would an alternative be any better? Democracy seems the only way forward, the solution is education (difficult if not impossible). The mob is ignorant so pick someone smart to be in charge? How do you pick? Who decides? Maybe the smartest people are the ones who take power already. Really the money is in charge.
Zigurd 10y ago
Thing is, they're not, as we discovered when the Snowden revelations came to light. Intelligence agencies do, in fact, operate without proper oversight, and are run by means of informal channels to private interests with overseas assets to protect. That's been true since the Dulles brothers.

arca_vorago 10y ago

I think you are completely wrong about this. There is plenty of evidence to indicate that "shadow groups" of varied interests that sometimes align and sometimes dont, are often pulling the strings of "public puppets". Your view, while common, (especially in the academic world where conspiracy is avoided like the plague) doesnt seem to reflect reality. The conspiratorial view of history is the correct one. Would you like me to go into more detail?

kangar00 10y ago
> Would you like me to go into more detail? Sure.
467568985476 10y ago
Please go into more detail. Start with the evidence.
- matwood 10y ago
  But the evidence is secret! :)
  - WayneBro 10y ago
    I think this statement is hilarious. You tried to make fun of conspiracy theorists, but I have never heard a conspiracy theorist say that they "have evidence, but it's secret". The reason it's funny to me is because the only time I ever hear bout "secret evidence" is when I read about secret courts and prisons that the US government runs, such as the US Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. (LOL! It's so funny that people around the world can be prosecuted, killed and tortured because of secret evidence, isn't it?)
- WayneBro 10y ago
  Could we start with asking you what kind of evidence would actually satisfy you? How much effort are you prepared to expend in questioning this? Honestly. What do you need to just to consider the small possibility that your view of things is the incorrect one? Do you want macro/micro/historical/current evidence and do you expect such evidence to be easily disseminated here or are you just asking without any of these things in mind? I guess we could start with the fact that it's proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that very few people control the economy in modern times - https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21228354-500-revealed-the-capitalist-network-that-runs-the-world/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21228354-500-revealed... We could also prove that for historical times. The evidence is there. It just takes a little work to dig through and a lot of reading. So, I suggest trying to look around on your own first. Read about the United Fruit Company. 1950's Iran. Rand Corporation. There's just so much out there already that I think anybody who hasn't read about this stuff by now must not really care.

justinwr 10y ago

Thank you.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

WayneBro 10y ago

> For the most part, theories of secret groups that control things are false... I'd like some evidence of that statement. If you have any evidence that the US is actually a democracy, that would be nice too.