4 ms·

You're rebutting almost all of seanmcdirmid's arguments by essentially saying "it's not a problem because some SV startups/companies do it too." But: 1) You do

You're rebutting almost all of seanmcdirmid's arguments by essentially saying "it's not a problem because some SV startups/companies do it too." But: 1) You don't become the next Silicon Valley through cargo-cult entrepreneurship. 2) SV is successful in spite of those things, not because of it, because SV is starting from a position of strength and inertia. SV succeeds in spite of its current problems because of the massive self-reinforcing feedback loop and culture it developed decades ago when these things were not issues. When SV was becoming a startup hub, most of what you and seanmcdirmid talked about were not problems. Housing was cheap, software patent lawsuits were not prevalent, many people were hobbyists, and so on.

seanmcdirmid 10y ago
what-about-isms are pretty standard rebuttals to any criticism on China these days. I just got used to it :). After the air gets cleaned up housing bubble pops, it could become a really cool place for startups. But those fixes come first; China cannot fix its problems by encouraging tech startups first.
Hondor 10y ago
Well yes, I suppose you're right. I think I'm just a bit jaded seeing every positive story about China filled with comments like "they'll fail because they're not doing it like us". There are plenty of ways they're different and most of them probably seem bad. Maybe most of them really are bad, but somehow they're still doing pretty well. It must be a complicated combination of factors. I don't think it's fair to predict failure just because some things are worse. They do have much stronger protectionism provided by the government, which is surely a massive advantage over American companies. They also have a cheaper yet well educated workforce.
- seanmcdirmid 10y ago
  This is how the Chinese press takes criticism: be insecure, claim it is an instruction to do things like the west, be like the west, then handle the criticism with some convenient what-about-isms. Everytime I go and read chinadaily, it's the same technique over and over again, everyday. At anyrate, the topic is inherently comparative (BJ is the only next SV!), and no, it really isn't. Maybe you can just brush it off to "BJ isn't SV because they aren't doing it like SV", but even then, al, the criticisms are valid and, if improved, could make the city much better irrespective of any comparison. I guess then that is also it: they seem to be really good, the pollution hasn't caused an economic implosion yet, people are somehow still alive, and someone is willing to spend 1 million $s on that bland 90 sqm apartment. It's like 2006, my friends are laughing at me because I'm saying real estate is definitely in a bubble to the retort "if it's a bubble why hasn't it popped yet?". The companies are completely protected, yet China keeps wanting more access into our markets, and we give it to them. Truth is, reform is all to China's benefit, while the west benefits greatly from the messed up status quo where China strives to be involved in global high value work but fails, and still derives most of their income from low value production, basically destroying their environment for our benefit.

seanmcdirmid 10y ago

what-about-isms are pretty standard rebuttals to any criticism on China these days. I just got used to it :). After the air gets cleaned up housing bubble pops, it could become a really cool place for startups. But those fixes come first; China cannot fix its problems by encouraging tech startups first.

Hondor 10y ago

Well yes, I suppose you're right. I think I'm just a bit jaded seeing every positive story about China filled with comments like "they'll fail because they're not doing it like us". There are plenty of ways they're different and most of them probably seem bad. Maybe most of them really are bad, but somehow they're still doing pretty well. It must be a complicated combination of factors. I don't think it's fair to predict failure just because some things are worse. They do have much stronger protectionism provided by the government, which is surely a massive advantage over American companies. They also have a cheaper yet well educated workforce.

seanmcdirmid 10y ago
This is how the Chinese press takes criticism: be insecure, claim it is an instruction to do things like the west, be like the west, then handle the criticism with some convenient what-about-isms. Everytime I go and read chinadaily, it's the same technique over and over again, everyday. At anyrate, the topic is inherently comparative (BJ is the only next SV!), and no, it really isn't. Maybe you can just brush it off to "BJ isn't SV because they aren't doing it like SV", but even then, al, the criticisms are valid and, if improved, could make the city much better irrespective of any comparison. I guess then that is also it: they seem to be really good, the pollution hasn't caused an economic implosion yet, people are somehow still alive, and someone is willing to spend 1 million $s on that bland 90 sqm apartment. It's like 2006, my friends are laughing at me because I'm saying real estate is definitely in a bubble to the retort "if it's a bubble why hasn't it popped yet?". The companies are completely protected, yet China keeps wanting more access into our markets, and we give it to them. Truth is, reform is all to China's benefit, while the west benefits greatly from the messed up status quo where China strives to be involved in global high value work but fails, and still derives most of their income from low value production, basically destroying their environment for our benefit.