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Is this a common practice in Europe /US? It seems ridiculous that the WiFi provider would be held liable for such a thing. Why stop there, should make the ISP l
by abhi3 10y ago
Is this a common practice in Europe /US? It seems ridiculous that the WiFi provider would be held liable for such a thing. Why stop there, should make the ISP liable too!
- the_mitsuhiko 10y agoNo. That's a Germany thing and it resulted in the conplete lack of public wifi hotspots.
- ptaipale 10y agoMore precisely: for example hotels typically have a public wifi for their customers, but you must get an individual login account from the reception. This protects the hotel or its service provider. It is quite silly, of course, and is generally a little hassle with your hotel.
- Scoundreller 10y agoIt's more problematic when you're transiting through a German airport, and practically fall off the face of the earth. Ohhhh, they have a wifi hotspot portal: "Enter your cell phone number to get an SMS with a 30 minute code". You want me to turn on my cell-phone and potentially incur roaming charges now? I hear things have gotten better in Frankfurt and you only have to provide an email address. How did they skirt this law?
- ptaipale 10y agoAre there really subscription plans where merely turning a phone on and receiving an SMS incurs roaming charges? Typically people just disable "data roaming" when travelling internationally, at least until one reaches and can lock to a "friendly" 3G/4G network. Thus there are no charges for IP traffic including MMS, and SMS reception is always free because you cannot turn it off. (I still agree that WLAN at German airports is abysmal and at restaurants practically non-existent. Another downside of Germany is the unavailability of Google Street View.)
- Scoundreller 10y ago> Are there really subscription plans... Welcome to Canada... (It's not as pricey as it used to be, but who knows how many SMSs you might have queued up)
- detaro 10y ago> I hear things have gotten better in Frankfurt and you only have to provide an email address. How did they skirt this law? By being run by companies that claim to be ISPs. What exactly counts as an ISP is at the core of the entire issue, because ISPs are protected from this. A company which only exists to provide internet access has a better standing (and better lawyers) to argue that it is an ISP, compared to a private person or a coffee shop owner. Most coffee shops I use Wifi in thus have access points provided by such companies. They offer AP/captive portal etc as a package and send the traffic through their systems, taking responsibility for it. (for good measure, some of them probably send the traffic out to the internet in other countries, to make it harder to harass them over it)
- Kliment 10y agoFor reference, CGN airport has no-login free wifi and gives you zero bullshit.
- kuschku 10y agoNot really – public hotspots are everywhere. Alone in Kiel, most stores, and the whole downtown area have free public WiFi. You just need to log in via a website, where you have to press "yes, I read the ToC".
- BjoernKW 10y agoNo, it's just Germany that has this stupid rule. Yes, it's ridiculous but has that ever kept politicians from implementing legislation? Germany is particularly notorious when it comes to useless, ridiculous and downright detrimental laws regarding anything that has to do with the Internet, notable examples being the so-called 'Leistungsschutzrecht' (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leistungsschutzrecht https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leistungsschutzrecht ) and the 'Impressumspflicht' (legal notice requirements for websites)
- kpcyrd 10y agoThe Impressumpflicht that is applied to websites now, is based on a law from 1530[1] [1]: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impressumspflicht#Geschichte https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impressumspflicht#Geschichte
- germanier 10y agoThe idea is old but the law now applied to websites was deliberately extended to the internet.
- DasIch 10y agoI don't think the law actually explicitly affects wifi, that's just a consequence. The concept of Störerhaftung precedes wifi by quite a bit.
- pluma 10y agoIt's a "happy accident" for the content industry, though. Can't figure out who fileshared your mp3? Just sue the person running the public WiFi. There have been several attempts to sue Freifunk (basically a public mesh WiFi using tunnelled connections) participants this way too, luckily so far that hasn't resulted in a single "victory" yet.
- denzil_correa 10y agoIt's just Germany. Another thing that Germany does is "speculative invoicing" viz. they send legal threats with settlement offers for illegal torrent downloads or any copyright infringements. Generally, most people pay up as the former law protected it. This new law could bring an end to this as WiFi providers now have a defense mechanism to fight this in court.
- rorykoehler 10y agoI was speculatively invoiced for things I have never even heard of let alone torrented. It's a total scam, possibly even criminals running it moonlighting as legal firms... same letter head but with different bank account details.
- marcoperaza 10y agoAnother unusual German law is having to register your location with the police, even where you're staying when you travel to other parts of Germany for a few nights.
- Tomte 10y agoForeigners? Probably, but I haven't checked. But how is that unusual? China, Russia and the US all require that. Citizens and everyone else with a residence permit don't have to register temporary whereabouts ("for a few nights").
- marcoperaza 10y agoIt's not just foreigners, it's everyone in Germany. I'm not that familiar with the details though. No such thing is required in most of the West I think. In practice, an ordinary life leaves an ample paper (and digital) trail, but you can legally live "off the grid" if you'd like. On the other end, the US is pretty unique in that you don't have to notify the government that you're leaving the country. I believe recent laws actually authorize an exit-tracking system, so that might be coming to an end unfortunately.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- Tomte 10y agoWrong. We have to register our place of residence, that's true. But I can visit friends somewhere else for months and not notify anybody (well, I should notify my friends...). Because I'm not taking up residence there.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- marcoperaza 10y agoI stand corrected.