5 ms·

This has made me realise I have no idea what the answer to these questions is: who did they buy it from? Where does that money go? Who mines/forges/lays new tld

by fredley 10y ago

This has made me realise I have no idea what the answer to these questions is: who did they buy it from? Where does that money go? Who mines/forges/lays new tlds?

snuxoll 10y ago
ICANN.
- georgestephanis 10y ago
  No, actually. The sum for the TLD. is actually split between the other bidders for that gTLD. So if you had applied to bid, and lost out on .blog, you would have gotten an equal share of the money that Automattic paid to be the owner of the TLD.
- pbhjpbhj 10y ago
  Who can basically make new TLDs whenever, can't they? At no real cost to themselves. By what authority to they derive that privilege, why are they allowed to make such huge sums without doing anything useful for the money?
  - mindslight 10y ago
    DNS admins who use the standard root.hints -> owners of those IP blocks -> administrators of those servers. It's essentially the same attention-consensus-economy game that web startups do, but earlier, more primitive, and deeper. They're now arbitraging the trust which got them to this point.
  - 55555 10y ago
    The US government. Someone else will be able to explain. I just read a bunch about it and am still extremely confused.
    - r3bl 10y ago
      I'll just leave this quote: > The Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) is the private sector, non-profit corporation
  - Giorgi 10y ago
    Because USA.
  - tjohns 10y ago
    Because ICANN is responsible for overseeing the DNS root servers, and those roots are always used by ISPs as a matter of convention. If you made your own DNS root and got folks to adopt it, you could make your own TLDs as well. Folks have tried in the past, none have really caught on (outside of a few specialized services, like .onion for Tor).
    - AlecSchueler 10y ago
      There's a pretty interesting book about the formation of ICANN called Ruling The Root if anyone wants to read about it further.
      - _asummers 10y ago
        Amazon link: http://smile.amazon.com/Ruling-Root-Internet-Governance-Cyberspace/dp/0262632985?sa-no-redirect=1 http://smile.amazon.com/Ruling-Root-Internet-Governance-Cybe...
  - snuxoll 10y ago
    To be fair, someone has to be responsible for deciding which TLD's should exist. Since the modern internet as we know it came from the ARPANet, the US government (specifically the USDoC) formed the ICANN to privatize the management of the public DNS system (they also sit over the IANA by contract from the US government at this time) - everyone else just fell in line and went with it.
    - fosk 10y ago
      > someone has to be responsible for deciding which TLD's should exist Why? Why can't we have as many custom TLD's as we want? Or why can't my blog just end with .helloworld if I decide to do so?
      - bitJericho 10y ago
        someone needs to manage a tld just like and for the same reasons someone needs to manage a domain...
      - ch4ch4 10y ago
        If you really want to stick it to "the man", you should just use the raw IP address for your blog and forgo the domain name! ;)
        profmonocle 10y ago
        Ah, but your provider got those IPs from one of the regional registries* (ARIN, RIPE NCC, etc.), who got them from the IANA, which is a division of...ICANN! (* Unless it's a legacy IPv4 allocation that predates the RIR system.)
      - cynix 10y ago
        You can. But if you want it to be resolvable by everyone in the world, it needs to be added to the root servers, which are controlled by US DoC/ICANN.
      - yaur 10y ago
        > Why? Why can't we have as many custom TLD's as we want? Or why can't my blog just end with .helloworld if I decide to do so? You can do whatever you want, but the internet runs on consensus and if consensus devolves into everyone doing whatever they want then DNS doesn't add anything beyond just using raw IP addresses.
  - koolba 10y ago
    They gave it to themselves.
  - branchless 10y ago
    Nobody tell him about banks and fiat currency. Let this one sink in first.
  - alwaysdownvoted 10y ago
    "Who can..." ICANN. Yes it can be whenever they want. No one ever stops them. They added several in 2001. Now they've opened the floodgates. "At no real cost..." True. Except the cost of running one of the 13 server addresses. And IMO it could be a dog and no one would notice. I think the A server (198.41.0.4) is really all anyone needs. The cost of a new TLD to ICANN is the cost of editing a text file. "By what authority..." None. ", why are they allowed..." A question I have been asking for over 20 years. Answer: Because we let them? You can say no to ICANN. Run your own root on 127.x.x.x. You can edit the root.zone to be just as you want it. Want to delete a silly TLD (e.g., .loans)? Edit a text file. Want to add your own new TLD? Edit a text file. The cost? Editing a text file. I recall a former Board member of ICANN admitting he himself ran his own root for many years. ICANN's ability to make millions in profit from TLD's relies on an interesting prerequisite. All DNS admins have to use a root.hints file that points to the (13) addresses serving ICANN's root.zone. Often they have no idea this root.hints file even exists, let alone have the guts to edit it. The root server addresses to use are chosen by the authors of the DNS software, e.g., the software automatically downloads root.hints from ICANN to bootstrap itself. If admins or users choose to use a different list of root server addresses (e.g., 127.x.x.x, 10.x.x.x., etc.), all bets are off. So how do you stop ICANN from making millions posing as a pseudo licensing authority for registries? One way is to stop using ICANN's root.hints and use a different root.zone that you control. If enough people do this then one day ICANN has no relevance. Right. Not gonna happen. I'm probably one of only a small number of users who will ever run their own root.
    - Bombthecat 10y ago
      Namecoin tries to break that monopole by using a p2p database with a blockchain like bitcoin. So far without any success :)
      - pmlnr 10y ago
        That is because it still relies on paying for the domain. The Tor network can "register" and address ( call it a pointer, because it's basically a hash ) for .onion. That means if you run the the tor service, you have a pointer, and this is probably a good solution. So if we'd all had a distributed global "dns"-like network, where each and every system gets a unique id this would partially be solved, for free, but the requirement for master nodes (like tracker servers for torrents ) would probably still be present. The problem with this approach is that obviously you can't make a choice for xyz.mydomain, because there will be at least someone else who wants xyz.mydomain, and in this case, who and how would decide which of you can have it? Right now this decision maker is money, which of course is an issue, but at least a solution. So: does anyone have a distributed, fair solution, that is able to solve disputes and act as a replacement for dns? So far I'm not aware of any.

by fredley 10y ago

This has made me realise I have no idea what the answer to these questions is: who did they buy it from? Where does that money go? Who mines/forges/lays new tlds?

snuxoll 10y ago

ICANN.

georgestephanis 10y ago
No, actually. The sum for the TLD. is actually split between the other bidders for that gTLD. So if you had applied to bid, and lost out on .blog, you would have gotten an equal share of the money that Automattic paid to be the owner of the TLD.
pbhjpbhj 10y ago
Who can basically make new TLDs whenever, can't they? At no real cost to themselves. By what authority to they derive that privilege, why are they allowed to make such huge sums without doing anything useful for the money?
- mindslight 10y ago
  DNS admins who use the standard root.hints -> owners of those IP blocks -> administrators of those servers. It's essentially the same attention-consensus-economy game that web startups do, but earlier, more primitive, and deeper. They're now arbitraging the trust which got them to this point.
- 55555 10y ago
  The US government. Someone else will be able to explain. I just read a bunch about it and am still extremely confused.
  - r3bl 10y ago
    I'll just leave this quote: > The Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) is the private sector, non-profit corporation
- Giorgi 10y ago
  Because USA.
- tjohns 10y ago
  Because ICANN is responsible for overseeing the DNS root servers, and those roots are always used by ISPs as a matter of convention. If you made your own DNS root and got folks to adopt it, you could make your own TLDs as well. Folks have tried in the past, none have really caught on (outside of a few specialized services, like .onion for Tor).
  - AlecSchueler 10y ago
    There's a pretty interesting book about the formation of ICANN called Ruling The Root if anyone wants to read about it further.
    - _asummers 10y ago
      Amazon link: http://smile.amazon.com/Ruling-Root-Internet-Governance-Cyberspace/dp/0262632985?sa-no-redirect=1 http://smile.amazon.com/Ruling-Root-Internet-Governance-Cybe...
- snuxoll 10y ago
  To be fair, someone has to be responsible for deciding which TLD's should exist. Since the modern internet as we know it came from the ARPANet, the US government (specifically the USDoC) formed the ICANN to privatize the management of the public DNS system (they also sit over the IANA by contract from the US government at this time) - everyone else just fell in line and went with it.
  - fosk 10y ago
    > someone has to be responsible for deciding which TLD's should exist Why? Why can't we have as many custom TLD's as we want? Or why can't my blog just end with .helloworld if I decide to do so?
    - bitJericho 10y ago
      someone needs to manage a tld just like and for the same reasons someone needs to manage a domain...
    - ch4ch4 10y ago
      If you really want to stick it to "the man", you should just use the raw IP address for your blog and forgo the domain name! ;)
      - profmonocle 10y ago
        Ah, but your provider got those IPs from one of the regional registries* (ARIN, RIPE NCC, etc.), who got them from the IANA, which is a division of...ICANN! (* Unless it's a legacy IPv4 allocation that predates the RIR system.)
    - cynix 10y ago
      You can. But if you want it to be resolvable by everyone in the world, it needs to be added to the root servers, which are controlled by US DoC/ICANN.
    - yaur 10y ago
      > Why? Why can't we have as many custom TLD's as we want? Or why can't my blog just end with .helloworld if I decide to do so? You can do whatever you want, but the internet runs on consensus and if consensus devolves into everyone doing whatever they want then DNS doesn't add anything beyond just using raw IP addresses.
- koolba 10y ago
  They gave it to themselves.
- branchless 10y ago
  Nobody tell him about banks and fiat currency. Let this one sink in first.
- alwaysdownvoted 10y ago
  "Who can..." ICANN. Yes it can be whenever they want. No one ever stops them. They added several in 2001. Now they've opened the floodgates. "At no real cost..." True. Except the cost of running one of the 13 server addresses. And IMO it could be a dog and no one would notice. I think the A server (198.41.0.4) is really all anyone needs. The cost of a new TLD to ICANN is the cost of editing a text file. "By what authority..." None. ", why are they allowed..." A question I have been asking for over 20 years. Answer: Because we let them? You can say no to ICANN. Run your own root on 127.x.x.x. You can edit the root.zone to be just as you want it. Want to delete a silly TLD (e.g., .loans)? Edit a text file. Want to add your own new TLD? Edit a text file. The cost? Editing a text file. I recall a former Board member of ICANN admitting he himself ran his own root for many years. ICANN's ability to make millions in profit from TLD's relies on an interesting prerequisite. All DNS admins have to use a root.hints file that points to the (13) addresses serving ICANN's root.zone. Often they have no idea this root.hints file even exists, let alone have the guts to edit it. The root server addresses to use are chosen by the authors of the DNS software, e.g., the software automatically downloads root.hints from ICANN to bootstrap itself. If admins or users choose to use a different list of root server addresses (e.g., 127.x.x.x, 10.x.x.x., etc.), all bets are off. So how do you stop ICANN from making millions posing as a pseudo licensing authority for registries? One way is to stop using ICANN's root.hints and use a different root.zone that you control. If enough people do this then one day ICANN has no relevance. Right. Not gonna happen. I'm probably one of only a small number of users who will ever run their own root.
  - Bombthecat 10y ago
    Namecoin tries to break that monopole by using a p2p database with a blockchain like bitcoin. So far without any success :)
    - pmlnr 10y ago
      That is because it still relies on paying for the domain. The Tor network can "register" and address ( call it a pointer, because it's basically a hash ) for .onion. That means if you run the the tor service, you have a pointer, and this is probably a good solution. So if we'd all had a distributed global "dns"-like network, where each and every system gets a unique id this would partially be solved, for free, but the requirement for master nodes (like tracker servers for torrents ) would probably still be present. The problem with this approach is that obviously you can't make a choice for xyz.mydomain, because there will be at least someone else who wants xyz.mydomain, and in this case, who and how would decide which of you can have it? Right now this decision maker is money, which of course is an issue, but at least a solution. So: does anyone have a distributed, fair solution, that is able to solve disputes and act as a replacement for dns? So far I'm not aware of any.