5 ms·

Forgotten Mayan city: Is it just an old cornfield?

33 points by benbreen 10y ago

lancefisher 10y ago
How expensive could it be to go look in person?
- sp332 10y ago
  It's in the middle of a huge forest. It would be very difficult to travel there.
  - elif 10y ago
    This is 114 miles from Ciudad del Carmen, out of which 4 helicopter charter companies fly. Commercial helicopters have a range of up to around 330 miles. All you'd need is about $2000 and a 100ft rope. EDIT: Flores is even closer, at 72 miles.
    - ryan_j_naughton 10y ago
      You are imagining that you get under the canopy and magically a city in ruins appears. Instead, it is so entirely overgrown with a thousand years of vegetation, that it is difficult to spot the difference between a hill and a temple. I was in tikal recently (drove from Flores, as you pointed out), and it was astounding to compare the parts they have excavated and restored to the rest. You would see hundreds of small hills and know that under each is an undiscovered building! Had it not been for the escavated parts, I wouldn't have even realized the hills were anything else. As a parallel, under parts of Guatemala city (far to the south in the highlands) there are the remains of a Mayan city from pre-classical to early classical. The center of which is under a high end shopping mall. There are similar hills there covered in grass in a nice lark. I have laid on hills like this throughout the city without really realizing there were ancient buildings underneath. Thus, there is a good rule in the capital. If there is a big, grassy hill, it is probably because there are ruins underneath. The government prevents people from developing that land, but no one has the money to excavate. Thus they stay entombed, waiting for future grad students and funding.
      - codingdave 10y ago
        Maybe getting into the canopy is not practical, but if the whole premise was that it was spotted via a satellite photo, surely someone in a helicopter can at least fly over and say confirm whether or not it is worth a closer look.
        scrumper 10y ago
        Helicopter-mounted ground penetrating radar perhaps.
      - refurb 10y ago
        This is a great point. Borobrudur was a massive Buddhist temple from the 9th century built in Indonesia. It was "rediscovered" in 1814. The temple was 115 ft high, but after the surrounding vegetation overgrew it, it just looked like a hill.[1] [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borobudur https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borobudur
    - justin66 10y ago
      > Commercial helicopters have a range of up to around 330 miles. All you'd need is about $2000 and a 100ft rope. How many people who don't wear a uniform use a 100ft rope to enter or exit a jungle canopy if they aren't in immediate fear for their life? You're underplaying the logistical difficulty.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
Triesault 10y ago
How deep in the jungle was this supposed to be? Why would there be a old corn field in the middle of the jungle?
- duaneb 10y ago
  Much of what is now a jungle in South America is recent, i.e. a product of the last 500-1500 years. Or rather, we know that many jungled areas were once open. Hence why we are still discovering entire settlements buried deep in jungle.
  - ryan_j_naughton 10y ago
    (A) Guatemala is in Central America, not South America. Central America being part of North America. In countless ways, Mexico and Central America are far more connected to the US than to South America. (B) a lot of these cities discovered in the jungle is not because it was naturally not jungle before. Instead, it was jungle that the Maya deforested and cultivated the land. The amount of deforestation by the ancient Maya was similar (though smaller scale) to that of the Europeans. This point in particular is critical in breaking the myth of the Maya as a super environmental people on harmony with nature. It makes them an overly simplistic "native people". The reality is they might have caused their own demise through environmental destruction (or at least the classical cities, the post classical are a different story)
    - duaneb 10y ago
      > Instead, it was jungle that the Maya deforested and cultivated the land. I am immensely skeptical. Do you have sources for this?
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
      - detaro 10y ago
        First possibly-reliable source I found (I had read about this before, but don't remember where) Some text: http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/Maya/ http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/Maya/ and some maps speculating about the extend and climate change: http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=77060 http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=77060
apo 10y ago
Critics say the area is a milpa. From Wikipedia: >The word is also used for a small field, especially in Mexico or Central America, that is cleared from the jungle, cropped for a few seasons, and then abandoned for a fresh clearing. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milpa https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milpa

33 points by benbreen 10y ago

lancefisher 10y ago

How expensive could it be to go look in person?

sp332 10y ago
It's in the middle of a huge forest. It would be very difficult to travel there.
- elif 10y ago
  This is 114 miles from Ciudad del Carmen, out of which 4 helicopter charter companies fly. Commercial helicopters have a range of up to around 330 miles. All you'd need is about $2000 and a 100ft rope. EDIT: Flores is even closer, at 72 miles.
  - ryan_j_naughton 10y ago
    You are imagining that you get under the canopy and magically a city in ruins appears. Instead, it is so entirely overgrown with a thousand years of vegetation, that it is difficult to spot the difference between a hill and a temple. I was in tikal recently (drove from Flores, as you pointed out), and it was astounding to compare the parts they have excavated and restored to the rest. You would see hundreds of small hills and know that under each is an undiscovered building! Had it not been for the escavated parts, I wouldn't have even realized the hills were anything else. As a parallel, under parts of Guatemala city (far to the south in the highlands) there are the remains of a Mayan city from pre-classical to early classical. The center of which is under a high end shopping mall. There are similar hills there covered in grass in a nice lark. I have laid on hills like this throughout the city without really realizing there were ancient buildings underneath. Thus, there is a good rule in the capital. If there is a big, grassy hill, it is probably because there are ruins underneath. The government prevents people from developing that land, but no one has the money to excavate. Thus they stay entombed, waiting for future grad students and funding.
    - codingdave 10y ago
      Maybe getting into the canopy is not practical, but if the whole premise was that it was spotted via a satellite photo, surely someone in a helicopter can at least fly over and say confirm whether or not it is worth a closer look.
      - scrumper 10y ago
        Helicopter-mounted ground penetrating radar perhaps.
    - refurb 10y ago
      This is a great point. Borobrudur was a massive Buddhist temple from the 9th century built in Indonesia. It was "rediscovered" in 1814. The temple was 115 ft high, but after the surrounding vegetation overgrew it, it just looked like a hill.[1] [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borobudur https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borobudur
  - justin66 10y ago
    > Commercial helicopters have a range of up to around 330 miles. All you'd need is about $2000 and a 100ft rope. How many people who don't wear a uniform use a 100ft rope to enter or exit a jungle canopy if they aren't in immediate fear for their life? You're underplaying the logistical difficulty.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

Triesault 10y ago

How deep in the jungle was this supposed to be? Why would there be a old corn field in the middle of the jungle?

duaneb 10y ago
Much of what is now a jungle in South America is recent, i.e. a product of the last 500-1500 years. Or rather, we know that many jungled areas were once open. Hence why we are still discovering entire settlements buried deep in jungle.
- ryan_j_naughton 10y ago
  (A) Guatemala is in Central America, not South America. Central America being part of North America. In countless ways, Mexico and Central America are far more connected to the US than to South America. (B) a lot of these cities discovered in the jungle is not because it was naturally not jungle before. Instead, it was jungle that the Maya deforested and cultivated the land. The amount of deforestation by the ancient Maya was similar (though smaller scale) to that of the Europeans. This point in particular is critical in breaking the myth of the Maya as a super environmental people on harmony with nature. It makes them an overly simplistic "native people". The reality is they might have caused their own demise through environmental destruction (or at least the classical cities, the post classical are a different story)
  - duaneb 10y ago
    > Instead, it was jungle that the Maya deforested and cultivated the land. I am immensely skeptical. Do you have sources for this?
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - detaro 10y ago
      First possibly-reliable source I found (I had read about this before, but don't remember where) Some text: http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/Maya/ http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/Maya/ and some maps speculating about the extend and climate change: http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=77060 http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=77060

apo 10y ago

Critics say the area is a milpa. From Wikipedia: >The word is also used for a small field, especially in Mexico or Central America, that is cleared from the jungle, cropped for a few seasons, and then abandoned for a fresh clearing. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milpa https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milpa