9 ms·

Introducing power saving mode in Opera for computers

92 points by hochmartinez 10y ago

joosters 10y ago
They aren't comparing apples with apples. Ad blocking is only enabled in the power saving mode. This alone would save a lot of CPU. IMO they should show a comparison with ad blocking enabled in both situations.
masklinn 10y ago
> We are the first major browser to include a dedicated power saving mode Isn't that because the one prime power-saving browser (Safari) is simply power-saving by default? AFAIK it's the same story on Windows (with Edge). Chrome is well known for being an all-power-consuming monster, having better power consumption than Chrome is hardly an achievement.
- maccard 10y ago
  There's also Firefox (I don't know much about Firefox power consumption. )
  - Dylan16807 10y ago
    One large factor is forcing the system to tick every millisecond instead of every 15.6 milliseconds, which both Firefox and Chrome are currently doing on my computer. Is there any way to make Windows ignore those requests?
    - ygra 10y ago
      Didn't Windows 8 move to a tickless kernel in which that setting no longer has any effect? EDIT: Yes: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/10/better-on-the-inside-under-the-hood-of-windows-8/2/ http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/10/better...
      - gpderetta 10y ago
        Tickless by itself doesn't guarantee that the system won't be woken up periodically by an application timer. It simply guarantees that the system won't wake up needlessly if there are no timers to serve. Timer coalescing, which I believe Windows also implement, does help by both setting a minium resolution to timer frequency and making sure that timers wake up in batches. edit: spelling
        ygra 10y ago
        Sure, but it gets rid of the overhead that reducing system timer resolution to 1 ms has which was there even if there weren't any timers running.
  - robin_reala 10y ago
    On Windows at least it looks like it’s considerably better than Chrome but less good than Edge / IE: http://www.digitalcitizen.life/test-comparison-which-browser-will-make-your-laptop-battery-last-longer http://www.digitalcitizen.life/test-comparison-which-browser...
    - jakub_g 10y ago
      > All the web browsers used their default configuration, without any add-ons or toolbars installed. My raw, untested guess is that using Firefox with some strict adblocking/flashblocking etc. tools might reduce its power usage due to less HTTP requests, less CPU/GPU time wasted (though OTOH the add-ons may increase the CPU load to do their job, so it's non-obvious).
- lucian1900 10y ago
  It's particularly telling that they don't compare against Safari at all. I've found it to beat Chrome by more than 50%.
  - derefr 10y ago
    Is that with a reasonable (~10) or unreasonable (~300) number of tabs open?
    - mstade 10y ago
      (Disclaimer: anecdata.) Unreasonable, for sure. I may not be in the several hundreds of tabs open at any given time, but definitely around a hundred. I gave up on Chrome for this specific reason, it'd just kill my battery in no time, whereas I can go an entire work day with Safari and still have battery left for an episode of SV. I routinely have ridiculous amounts of tabs open (for no good reasons) and Safari so far has been the only browser able to cope without draining my battery in no time. My main reason for ditching Chrome in favor of Safari, aside from the fact that Safari is ridiculously fast, is that Chrome is a memory hog. The way I browse, with so many tabs open and lots of flipping back and forth, Chrome routinely eats around 4gb of memory in total, whereas Safari uses somewhere in the vicinity of 50%-75% of that. (Looking at it right now, it's at 1.86gb.) I don't think Safari is the perfect browser by any means, but it's the best one I've used so far.
      - miloshadzic 10y ago
        A classic example of finding a technical solution to a human problem. If you have a hundred tabs open, you're problem is the hundred tabs and not your browser.
        mitchty 10y ago
        Why? I open up a lot of tabs while researching things, and once I have found my solution, I can either review the rest of the tabs or close the window. So what is the human problem with having many tabs exactly?
- mtgx 10y ago
  > having better power consumption than Chrome is hardly an achievement Considering Opera is now based on Chromium, and Google didn't achieve this on its own, I'd say it does deserve some credit.
  - jakub_g 10y ago
    I think the OP meant that Chrome is known for not caring about memory/CPU usage, so if you do any effort, you will improve. IMHO 50% improvement (if it's real) is a very respectable improvement.
chenzhekl 10y ago
Chrome should add such a mode, too. Power consumption is a big concern for laptop users.
- madeofpalk 10y ago
  Why don't you just make low power consumption a permanent feature?
  - kasparsklavins 10y ago
    Because not everyone uses a battery powered device.
    - coroutines 10y ago
      Even if power use is a minor concern for desktops, it would be good to program with energy consumption in mind :> Network utilization, CPU usage, memory, disk usage, energy consumption. Lots to focus on...
    - derefr 10y ago
      "Longer battery life" can be restated as: a lower ambient temperature for your room/office; less CPU cooler fan noise; a lower power bill; the ability to pack more servers per rack in a co-lo environment (yes, servers run browsers–headless ones, for spidering/scraping); etc. It can even be restated in terms of extra performance, when you consider technologies like Intel's Turbo Boost.
    - danieldk 10y ago
      I would expect that lower power use is highly correlated to low CPU/GPU use, which can be beneficial for other reasons than reducing power use.
  - superkuh 10y ago
    It's really frustrating how much the web, software, and computers in general are being gimped for everyone just to support the "mobile" segment of the market.
hawski 10y ago
Does anyone know how different is power management of Chrome on ChromeOS from Chrome on other OSes? Chromebooks are known for long battery life is that because of power management or is there more in this?
- creshal 10y ago
  Minimal hardware + even more minimal software stack means that there's little except Chrome that can drain power. That already helps a lot.
iamcreasy 10y ago
Reminds me of Intellij IDEA's power saving mode.
jkot 10y ago
Power consumption improves a lot with malware filters.
sleepychu 10y ago
Decided to install opera, discovered there's no way to disable speed dial and I was out of there. Why would I want a browser I can't control?
- ben_pr 10y ago
  Hmm, kinda odd. Not sure if you are comparing this to Chrome, Safari or Edge but with those you have a lot less control over the start/speed-dial page. Use the gear icon in the upper right to edit nearly everything on the speed dial page including turning speed dial off. One of the main reasons I switched to Opera was the ability to have more control over the start page. The biggest reason to switch to Opera now is the ad blocker is much faster than ABP/Ghost/etc and web pages load significantly faster now.
  - bwat48 10y ago
    With chrome you have more control over the start page, in that you can change it from the default one to a totally different one, but when comparing opera's speed dial to chrome's default start page Opera's is definitely far superior (and more customizable). The speed dial is the main reason I use opera as well (I like it much better than any speed dial addons for chrome/firefox, and even vivaldi's speed dial) edit: apparently there are opera addons that allow you to load a custom page instead of the speed dial so that may also be a moot point anyway
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- apetrovic 10y ago
  I'm on Developer branch, so maybe it's different in the "normal" version. When you open the start page, on the upper right corner you have a config button. Among other options there was "Speed Dial" check box. Is that what you wanted?
  - sleepychu 10y ago
    So I have a dropdown that shows me my open tabs (presumably not what you're talking about) in the upper right corner of the window. A cog which lets me 'Customise start page' but expanding Navigation and unchecking Speed Dial did not disable speed dial. On the top left I have a Menu but the only thing I can see to do with speed dial is a button which opens it in a new tab or focuses a tab which already has it open. I really just want a blank page when I open a new tab. Opera 37 on Windows.
frontendthing 10y ago
Ha, I just did this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11682622 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11682622 Ask HN: Resources for Front End JavaScript with Priority on Performance and Power Saving? Please lets collect some perfomance and power saving JS resources!
cm3 10y ago
If you want to see a hard to justify CPU hog, take a look at the amount of CPU Chrome or Firefox use for downloading a file. Then compare it to wget.
LoSboccacc 10y ago
> first explorer 9 disagrees. http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/159269-internet-explorer-javascript-timer-frequency-power-plan-settings.html http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/159269-internet-explore... Safari says hi as well http://www.imore.com/os-x-mavericks-preview-safari-power-saver-cuts-flash-knees http://www.imore.com/os-x-mavericks-preview-safari-power-sav...
samfisher83 10y ago
This is my very unscientific method, but it really seems to work. On my i7-4510 with FF I was using 7500mW. With opera I am using 5500mW. That is a pretty good savings. The only issue I am having is three finger swiping to go back and forth doesn't seem to work.
drone3 10y ago
Opera trying hard to survive these days. I would use it if they open their source code
- neurobuddha 10y ago
  Opera is staging and making some last minute "value adds" before selling to a Chinese Tech company: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-10/opera-software-gets-agreed-takeover-offer-valued-at-1-2-billion http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-10/opera-soft... It has nothing to do with surviving. They just want to cash out.
awinter-py 10y ago
G chrome has a 'power multiplier' that you can turn on by clicking the red multiplication sign next to each open tab
hendersoon 10y ago
This smells fishy to me. Why did they test in High Performance power mode? The default is Balanced. High Performance mode doesn't allow the CPU to downclock, keeping it at the maximum frequency at all times, even with zero load. It also maintains a higher screen brightness, and stops wifi and disks from entering power-saving modes too. This is NOT a negligible difference. The _concept_ behind optimizing for energy savings in a browser is absolutely brilliant. Why pollute it by using such blatantly fake numbers?
- SapphireSun 10y ago
  Using HPM eliminates confounding factors. You won't get real world numbers because some of the benefit is provided by the OS/hardware, but you'll know if your changes are actually making a difference during the times that they are active.
  - hendersoon 10y ago
    It's simply not an appropriate test. You don't use high performance mode when you care about battery life.
    - throwanem 10y ago
      I don't get your objection here. Not only does high-performance mode eliminate OS-level confounders that would otherwise render consumption deltas highly questionable, it does so in a way that produces worst-case results. What exactly are you complaining about?
      - hendersoon 10y ago
        All that other stuff impacts battery life in a huge way. Those variables matter. You can't just remove them, call it a "worst case scenario", and walk away. That is not valid. When a reputable site like Anandtech reviews a laptop, they don't force it to maximum performance mode, because nobody that cares about battery life would ever do that. It's testing a scenario that _doesn't matter_. In fact, not only is it not the default, but maximum performance mode doesn't even _show_ by default-- you need to expand a "show additional plans" dropdown in the power control panel to see it. Opera went to the trouble to do that, and it was not by accident.
agumonkey 10y ago
How does it fare compared to dillo ? That's right.

92 points by hochmartinez 10y ago

They aren't comparing apples with apples. Ad blocking is only enabled in the power saving mode. This alone would save a lot of CPU. IMO they should show a comparison with ad blocking enabled in both situations.

masklinn 10y ago

> We are the first major browser to include a dedicated power saving mode Isn't that because the one prime power-saving browser (Safari) is simply power-saving by default? AFAIK it's the same story on Windows (with Edge). Chrome is well known for being an all-power-consuming monster, having better power consumption than Chrome is hardly an achievement.

maccard 10y ago
There's also Firefox (I don't know much about Firefox power consumption. )
- Dylan16807 10y ago
  One large factor is forcing the system to tick every millisecond instead of every 15.6 milliseconds, which both Firefox and Chrome are currently doing on my computer. Is there any way to make Windows ignore those requests?
  - ygra 10y ago
    Didn't Windows 8 move to a tickless kernel in which that setting no longer has any effect? EDIT: Yes: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/10/better-on-the-inside-under-the-hood-of-windows-8/2/ http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/10/better...
    - gpderetta 10y ago
      Tickless by itself doesn't guarantee that the system won't be woken up periodically by an application timer. It simply guarantees that the system won't wake up needlessly if there are no timers to serve. Timer coalescing, which I believe Windows also implement, does help by both setting a minium resolution to timer frequency and making sure that timers wake up in batches. edit: spelling
      - ygra 10y ago
        Sure, but it gets rid of the overhead that reducing system timer resolution to 1 ms has which was there even if there weren't any timers running.
- robin_reala 10y ago
  On Windows at least it looks like it’s considerably better than Chrome but less good than Edge / IE: http://www.digitalcitizen.life/test-comparison-which-browser-will-make-your-laptop-battery-last-longer http://www.digitalcitizen.life/test-comparison-which-browser...
  - jakub_g 10y ago
    > All the web browsers used their default configuration, without any add-ons or toolbars installed. My raw, untested guess is that using Firefox with some strict adblocking/flashblocking etc. tools might reduce its power usage due to less HTTP requests, less CPU/GPU time wasted (though OTOH the add-ons may increase the CPU load to do their job, so it's non-obvious).
lucian1900 10y ago
It's particularly telling that they don't compare against Safari at all. I've found it to beat Chrome by more than 50%.
- derefr 10y ago
  Is that with a reasonable (~10) or unreasonable (~300) number of tabs open?
  - mstade 10y ago
    (Disclaimer: anecdata.) Unreasonable, for sure. I may not be in the several hundreds of tabs open at any given time, but definitely around a hundred. I gave up on Chrome for this specific reason, it'd just kill my battery in no time, whereas I can go an entire work day with Safari and still have battery left for an episode of SV. I routinely have ridiculous amounts of tabs open (for no good reasons) and Safari so far has been the only browser able to cope without draining my battery in no time. My main reason for ditching Chrome in favor of Safari, aside from the fact that Safari is ridiculously fast, is that Chrome is a memory hog. The way I browse, with so many tabs open and lots of flipping back and forth, Chrome routinely eats around 4gb of memory in total, whereas Safari uses somewhere in the vicinity of 50%-75% of that. (Looking at it right now, it's at 1.86gb.) I don't think Safari is the perfect browser by any means, but it's the best one I've used so far.
    - miloshadzic 10y ago
      A classic example of finding a technical solution to a human problem. If you have a hundred tabs open, you're problem is the hundred tabs and not your browser.
      - mitchty 10y ago
        Why? I open up a lot of tabs while researching things, and once I have found my solution, I can either review the rest of the tabs or close the window. So what is the human problem with having many tabs exactly?
mtgx 10y ago
> having better power consumption than Chrome is hardly an achievement Considering Opera is now based on Chromium, and Google didn't achieve this on its own, I'd say it does deserve some credit.
- jakub_g 10y ago
  I think the OP meant that Chrome is known for not caring about memory/CPU usage, so if you do any effort, you will improve. IMHO 50% improvement (if it's real) is a very respectable improvement.

chenzhekl 10y ago

Chrome should add such a mode, too. Power consumption is a big concern for laptop users.

madeofpalk 10y ago
Why don't you just make low power consumption a permanent feature?
- kasparsklavins 10y ago
  Because not everyone uses a battery powered device.
  - coroutines 10y ago
    Even if power use is a minor concern for desktops, it would be good to program with energy consumption in mind :> Network utilization, CPU usage, memory, disk usage, energy consumption. Lots to focus on...
  - derefr 10y ago
    "Longer battery life" can be restated as: a lower ambient temperature for your room/office; less CPU cooler fan noise; a lower power bill; the ability to pack more servers per rack in a co-lo environment (yes, servers run browsers–headless ones, for spidering/scraping); etc. It can even be restated in terms of extra performance, when you consider technologies like Intel's Turbo Boost.
  - danieldk 10y ago
    I would expect that lower power use is highly correlated to low CPU/GPU use, which can be beneficial for other reasons than reducing power use.
- superkuh 10y ago
  It's really frustrating how much the web, software, and computers in general are being gimped for everyone just to support the "mobile" segment of the market.

hawski 10y ago

Does anyone know how different is power management of Chrome on ChromeOS from Chrome on other OSes? Chromebooks are known for long battery life is that because of power management or is there more in this?

creshal 10y ago
Minimal hardware + even more minimal software stack means that there's little except Chrome that can drain power. That already helps a lot.

iamcreasy 10y ago

Reminds me of Intellij IDEA's power saving mode.

jkot 10y ago

Power consumption improves a lot with malware filters.

sleepychu 10y ago

Decided to install opera, discovered there's no way to disable speed dial and I was out of there. Why would I want a browser I can't control?

ben_pr 10y ago
Hmm, kinda odd. Not sure if you are comparing this to Chrome, Safari or Edge but with those you have a lot less control over the start/speed-dial page. Use the gear icon in the upper right to edit nearly everything on the speed dial page including turning speed dial off. One of the main reasons I switched to Opera was the ability to have more control over the start page. The biggest reason to switch to Opera now is the ad blocker is much faster than ABP/Ghost/etc and web pages load significantly faster now.
- bwat48 10y ago
  With chrome you have more control over the start page, in that you can change it from the default one to a totally different one, but when comparing opera's speed dial to chrome's default start page Opera's is definitely far superior (and more customizable). The speed dial is the main reason I use opera as well (I like it much better than any speed dial addons for chrome/firefox, and even vivaldi's speed dial) edit: apparently there are opera addons that allow you to load a custom page instead of the speed dial so that may also be a moot point anyway
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
apetrovic 10y ago
I'm on Developer branch, so maybe it's different in the "normal" version. When you open the start page, on the upper right corner you have a config button. Among other options there was "Speed Dial" check box. Is that what you wanted?
- sleepychu 10y ago
  So I have a dropdown that shows me my open tabs (presumably not what you're talking about) in the upper right corner of the window. A cog which lets me 'Customise start page' but expanding Navigation and unchecking Speed Dial did not disable speed dial. On the top left I have a Menu but the only thing I can see to do with speed dial is a button which opens it in a new tab or focuses a tab which already has it open. I really just want a blank page when I open a new tab. Opera 37 on Windows.

frontendthing 10y ago

Ha, I just did this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11682622 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11682622 Ask HN: Resources for Front End JavaScript with Priority on Performance and Power Saving? Please lets collect some perfomance and power saving JS resources!

cm3 10y ago

If you want to see a hard to justify CPU hog, take a look at the amount of CPU Chrome or Firefox use for downloading a file. Then compare it to wget.

LoSboccacc 10y ago

> first explorer 9 disagrees. http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/159269-internet-explorer-javascript-timer-frequency-power-plan-settings.html http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/159269-internet-explore... Safari says hi as well http://www.imore.com/os-x-mavericks-preview-safari-power-saver-cuts-flash-knees http://www.imore.com/os-x-mavericks-preview-safari-power-sav...

samfisher83 10y ago

This is my very unscientific method, but it really seems to work. On my i7-4510 with FF I was using 7500mW. With opera I am using 5500mW. That is a pretty good savings. The only issue I am having is three finger swiping to go back and forth doesn't seem to work.

drone3 10y ago

Opera trying hard to survive these days. I would use it if they open their source code

neurobuddha 10y ago
Opera is staging and making some last minute "value adds" before selling to a Chinese Tech company: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-10/opera-software-gets-agreed-takeover-offer-valued-at-1-2-billion http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-10/opera-soft... It has nothing to do with surviving. They just want to cash out.

awinter-py 10y ago

G chrome has a 'power multiplier' that you can turn on by clicking the red multiplication sign next to each open tab

hendersoon 10y ago

This smells fishy to me. Why did they test in High Performance power mode? The default is Balanced. High Performance mode doesn't allow the CPU to downclock, keeping it at the maximum frequency at all times, even with zero load. It also maintains a higher screen brightness, and stops wifi and disks from entering power-saving modes too. This is NOT a negligible difference. The _concept_ behind optimizing for energy savings in a browser is absolutely brilliant. Why pollute it by using such blatantly fake numbers?

SapphireSun 10y ago
Using HPM eliminates confounding factors. You won't get real world numbers because some of the benefit is provided by the OS/hardware, but you'll know if your changes are actually making a difference during the times that they are active.
- hendersoon 10y ago
  It's simply not an appropriate test. You don't use high performance mode when you care about battery life.
  - throwanem 10y ago
    I don't get your objection here. Not only does high-performance mode eliminate OS-level confounders that would otherwise render consumption deltas highly questionable, it does so in a way that produces worst-case results. What exactly are you complaining about?
    - hendersoon 10y ago
      All that other stuff impacts battery life in a huge way. Those variables matter. You can't just remove them, call it a "worst case scenario", and walk away. That is not valid. When a reputable site like Anandtech reviews a laptop, they don't force it to maximum performance mode, because nobody that cares about battery life would ever do that. It's testing a scenario that _doesn't matter_. In fact, not only is it not the default, but maximum performance mode doesn't even _show_ by default-- you need to expand a "show additional plans" dropdown in the power control panel to see it. Opera went to the trouble to do that, and it was not by accident.

agumonkey 10y ago

How does it fare compared to dillo ? That's right.