8 ms·

According to this chart, Apple spent $6B in 2014 and is projected to spend just over $10B in 2016. For comparison, in 2014 Volkswagen spent $13.5B, Samsung spe

by beloch 10y ago

According to this chart, Apple spent $6B in 2014 and is projected to spend just over $10B in 2016. For comparison, in 2014 Volkswagen spent $13.5B, Samsung spent $13.4B, and Microsoft spent $10.4B. [1] Apple has, historically, not been a big spender when it comes to research, tending to favor short-term, tightly focused research over long-term, curiosity driven research. Over the last few years their research budget has ballooned, but only in 2017 (projected) are they going to reach levels that the above companies were spending at in 2014. Has Apple's research focus changed? Perhaps we're not seeing some monumental project in the works, although an autonomous car would be pretty big. Perhaps what we're seeing is Apple deciding to loosen the purse strings and, instead of stashing away obscene piles of money, they've loosened their research focus and now have a lot of people doing whatever the hell they want, much like MS, just because something useful might someday emerge. Let's face it, Apple has so much money they could probably launch their own space program if they really wanted to. [1]http://fortune.com/2014/11/17/top-10-research-development/ http://fortune.com/2014/11/17/top-10-research-development/

astrodust 10y ago
Just imagine how much fun Ive would have designing an orbital space station. What's interesting is how aggressively they're moving into the car space if that's what's happening. The phone people had no idea, they got blindsided thinking Apple wouldn't have the guts, would never commit the money.
- iLoch 10y ago
  Not nearly as much fun as he'd have talking about how he designed it.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - tzaman 10y ago
    Not nearly as much fun as YouTubers would have remaking his promo videos :)
    - mitchty 10y ago
      You know the word chamfer would factor in somehow. :)
- chetanahuja 10y ago
  "Just imagine how much fun Ive would have designing an orbital space station." Unpossible. Space stations need to be displayed against a black background (albeit one punctuated with twinkling dots of light). Ive doesn't do black background.
  - dingaling 10y ago
    > Space stations need to be displayed against a black background Depends on your perspective http://www.spacewallpapers.net/wallpapers/albums/Other/normal_o7.jpg http://www.spacewallpapers.net/wallpapers/albums/Other/norma...
- simonh 10y ago
  I think the phone industry just didn't think it possible that real ground breaking innovation in their industry was at all possible. They imagined a phone must have a physical keyboard, couldn't run a decent web browser and Microsoft was already selling the best mobile OS it was possible to make. It wasn't that they doubted Apple's commitment, they just didn't have the imagination. To be fair to them, Apple timed things perfectly. Even a year earlier SOCs weren't powerful enough to run something like the early iOS. They did in software what they did in hardware much later with the 64-bit transition. They pulled off a superbly executed technological coup just at the point when it became possible to do it at all, beating everyone else to the market by years. If they're planning to do the same with cars, we have interesting times ahead.
  - TheOtherHobbes 10y ago
    Cars are a terrible industry to get into. Building cars is massively capital and plant intensive, heavily dependent on supply chain logistics, and the market is already extremely competitive. The entire industry is well on its way to switching to electric and/or self-driving. Selling cars requires a huge dealer network rollout with huge up-front costs for training and spares. Doing it DIY would be insanely expensive, and persuading existing dealers to sign up for a franchise is going to be a tough sell considering Apple's historical treatment of resellers. Apple under Jobs certainly had the imagination to make a good phone - but the phone industry was always fairly crappy, with very clever internals but mediocre UX. I don't see much reason to think that Apple under Cook has the imagination to break open the car industry in the same way. The possible competitive differentials are much smaller, and Cook isn't the most creative CEO Apple has had. If the USP is that Car is electric, looks pretty, and may eventually have some self-driving features - that won't be anywhere close to enough. It's going to need to have some wow to get taken seriously, and even if Jobs were alive and in charge there's limited wow space available. Of course if it flies and/or teleports, that would be something else.
    - givinguflac 10y ago
      Pretty much everything you just said could have car replaced by the word phone, and you'd sound just like MS BB or Nokia in 2007. "Clever internals but crappy ux" describes pretty much every car ever. Regarding dealerships, ever heard of Tesla? It's definitely possible to diy, and Tesla has nothing compared to Apple's resources.
- ArkyBeagle 10y ago
  To a first approximation, all car companies are extinct.
- WalterBright 10y ago
  I can't imagine how they could keep a car project secret. Too many people would have to know, and you can't develop a car in a locked room.
DannyBee 10y ago
"Has Apple's research focus changed?" If it has, honestly, it's because they don't know where to put their money or they've put it all in one thing. You more or less say the same thing. "hey've loosened their research focus and now have a lot of people doing whatever the hell they want, much like MS, just because something useful might someday emerge." (This is we have no idea what to spend our money on). "Perhaps we're not seeing some monumental project in the works, although an autonomous car would be pretty big." (This is we are betting big on this one thing we think has huge potential). The other option apple has not been fond of is large investments in a small set of things, each of which may be a potential big future. The first would be quite concerning. If you have companies with large research budgets, and they have no idea what they should spend money on in order to make the next big thing happen, that does not bode well.
- ori_b 10y ago
  > The first would be quite concerning. If you have companies with large research budgets, and they have no idea what they should spend money on in order to make the next big thing happen, that does not bode well. Why doesn't it bode well? The transistor, the laser, Unix, information theory, and a giant number of other things which form the underpinnings of modern technology came out of Bell Labs, which is the epitome of a place with a large research budget and no specific "next thing to monetize" that the spending was directed towards. From what I understand of Apple's culture, it's unlikely that it will ever transform towards this, but that's a separate point.
  - DannyBee 10y ago
    "Why doesn't it bode well?" For investors, i meant. " The transistor, the laser, Unix, information theory, and a giant number of other things which form the underpinnings of modern technology came out of Bell Labs, which is the epitome of a place with a large research budget and no specific "next thing to monetize" that the spending was directed towards." That was research for research's sake. It was, explicitly, not directed at ever making money, but instead, advancing the state of the art. I don't think any of the companies mentioned, or Apple, are doing it for that reason, and for them it does not bode well, because they are hoping to make money. I could also point out that Bell Labs made any money at all through licensing those inventions. That is also not Apple's business model :)
hackaflocka 10y ago
Elon Musk launched a space program with less than a hundredth of Apple's cash.
shas3 10y ago
You are comparing across industries. Apple is a mix of software and manufacturing. As is Samsung. VW is a car company. Further, a better metric is to look at % of revenue spent on R&D.
- simonh 10y ago
  > You are comparing across industries. That's the whole point. The argument is that Apple is pivoting into a different industry. % of revenue spent on R&D would not tell you much here. If a company with $10m revenue spends the same % revenue on R&D as VW, does that mean it's possible for it to bringing out a new line of cars? Setting up to manufacture a car costs a large amount of absolute $, so comparing absolute spend makes sense here.
geekery 10y ago
He's not wrong about the car. Apple filed a patent in October for MONITORING A MOBILE DEVICE EN ROUTE TO DESTINATION (20160112837) along with a handful of other image processing/camera related patents. So maybe they are developing a car, maybe they are just amping up their IP for the impending shift of tides. However, MacRumors mentions an electric car possibility: Project Titan http://www.macrumors.com/roundup/apple-car/ http://www.macrumors.com/roundup/apple-car/ so a physical product makes sense.
- tedmiston 10y ago
  Apple files plenty of IP that never turns into a product.
blktiger 10y ago
In 2015 Apple had ~234B in revenue. 10B is only 4.27% of that. If you look at the percentage of R&D vs sales that's still actually drastically less than they spent in R&D up until about 2005. It could just be that Apple has decided to spend a bit more percentage wise and they have expanded the amount of things they are researching instead of indicating a focus on one specific thing.

by beloch 10y ago

astrodust 10y ago

Just imagine how much fun Ive would have designing an orbital space station. What's interesting is how aggressively they're moving into the car space if that's what's happening. The phone people had no idea, they got blindsided thinking Apple wouldn't have the guts, would never commit the money.

iLoch 10y ago
Not nearly as much fun as he'd have talking about how he designed it.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- tzaman 10y ago
  Not nearly as much fun as YouTubers would have remaking his promo videos :)
  - mitchty 10y ago
    You know the word chamfer would factor in somehow. :)
chetanahuja 10y ago
"Just imagine how much fun Ive would have designing an orbital space station." Unpossible. Space stations need to be displayed against a black background (albeit one punctuated with twinkling dots of light). Ive doesn't do black background.
- dingaling 10y ago
  > Space stations need to be displayed against a black background Depends on your perspective http://www.spacewallpapers.net/wallpapers/albums/Other/normal_o7.jpg http://www.spacewallpapers.net/wallpapers/albums/Other/norma...
simonh 10y ago
I think the phone industry just didn't think it possible that real ground breaking innovation in their industry was at all possible. They imagined a phone must have a physical keyboard, couldn't run a decent web browser and Microsoft was already selling the best mobile OS it was possible to make. It wasn't that they doubted Apple's commitment, they just didn't have the imagination. To be fair to them, Apple timed things perfectly. Even a year earlier SOCs weren't powerful enough to run something like the early iOS. They did in software what they did in hardware much later with the 64-bit transition. They pulled off a superbly executed technological coup just at the point when it became possible to do it at all, beating everyone else to the market by years. If they're planning to do the same with cars, we have interesting times ahead.
- TheOtherHobbes 10y ago
  Cars are a terrible industry to get into. Building cars is massively capital and plant intensive, heavily dependent on supply chain logistics, and the market is already extremely competitive. The entire industry is well on its way to switching to electric and/or self-driving. Selling cars requires a huge dealer network rollout with huge up-front costs for training and spares. Doing it DIY would be insanely expensive, and persuading existing dealers to sign up for a franchise is going to be a tough sell considering Apple's historical treatment of resellers. Apple under Jobs certainly had the imagination to make a good phone - but the phone industry was always fairly crappy, with very clever internals but mediocre UX. I don't see much reason to think that Apple under Cook has the imagination to break open the car industry in the same way. The possible competitive differentials are much smaller, and Cook isn't the most creative CEO Apple has had. If the USP is that Car is electric, looks pretty, and may eventually have some self-driving features - that won't be anywhere close to enough. It's going to need to have some wow to get taken seriously, and even if Jobs were alive and in charge there's limited wow space available. Of course if it flies and/or teleports, that would be something else.
  - givinguflac 10y ago
    Pretty much everything you just said could have car replaced by the word phone, and you'd sound just like MS BB or Nokia in 2007. "Clever internals but crappy ux" describes pretty much every car ever. Regarding dealerships, ever heard of Tesla? It's definitely possible to diy, and Tesla has nothing compared to Apple's resources.
ArkyBeagle 10y ago
To a first approximation, all car companies are extinct.
WalterBright 10y ago
I can't imagine how they could keep a car project secret. Too many people would have to know, and you can't develop a car in a locked room.

DannyBee 10y ago

"Has Apple's research focus changed?" If it has, honestly, it's because they don't know where to put their money or they've put it all in one thing. You more or less say the same thing. "hey've loosened their research focus and now have a lot of people doing whatever the hell they want, much like MS, just because something useful might someday emerge." (This is we have no idea what to spend our money on). "Perhaps we're not seeing some monumental project in the works, although an autonomous car would be pretty big." (This is we are betting big on this one thing we think has huge potential). The other option apple has not been fond of is large investments in a small set of things, each of which may be a potential big future. The first would be quite concerning. If you have companies with large research budgets, and they have no idea what they should spend money on in order to make the next big thing happen, that does not bode well.

ori_b 10y ago
> The first would be quite concerning. If you have companies with large research budgets, and they have no idea what they should spend money on in order to make the next big thing happen, that does not bode well. Why doesn't it bode well? The transistor, the laser, Unix, information theory, and a giant number of other things which form the underpinnings of modern technology came out of Bell Labs, which is the epitome of a place with a large research budget and no specific "next thing to monetize" that the spending was directed towards. From what I understand of Apple's culture, it's unlikely that it will ever transform towards this, but that's a separate point.
- DannyBee 10y ago
  "Why doesn't it bode well?" For investors, i meant. " The transistor, the laser, Unix, information theory, and a giant number of other things which form the underpinnings of modern technology came out of Bell Labs, which is the epitome of a place with a large research budget and no specific "next thing to monetize" that the spending was directed towards." That was research for research's sake. It was, explicitly, not directed at ever making money, but instead, advancing the state of the art. I don't think any of the companies mentioned, or Apple, are doing it for that reason, and for them it does not bode well, because they are hoping to make money. I could also point out that Bell Labs made any money at all through licensing those inventions. That is also not Apple's business model :)

hackaflocka 10y ago

Elon Musk launched a space program with less than a hundredth of Apple's cash.

shas3 10y ago

You are comparing across industries. Apple is a mix of software and manufacturing. As is Samsung. VW is a car company. Further, a better metric is to look at % of revenue spent on R&D.

simonh 10y ago
> You are comparing across industries. That's the whole point. The argument is that Apple is pivoting into a different industry. % of revenue spent on R&D would not tell you much here. If a company with $10m revenue spends the same % revenue on R&D as VW, does that mean it's possible for it to bringing out a new line of cars? Setting up to manufacture a car costs a large amount of absolute $, so comparing absolute spend makes sense here.

geekery 10y ago

He's not wrong about the car. Apple filed a patent in October for MONITORING A MOBILE DEVICE EN ROUTE TO DESTINATION (20160112837) along with a handful of other image processing/camera related patents. So maybe they are developing a car, maybe they are just amping up their IP for the impending shift of tides. However, MacRumors mentions an electric car possibility: Project Titan http://www.macrumors.com/roundup/apple-car/ http://www.macrumors.com/roundup/apple-car/ so a physical product makes sense.

tedmiston 10y ago
Apple files plenty of IP that never turns into a product.

blktiger 10y ago

In 2015 Apple had ~234B in revenue. 10B is only 4.27% of that. If you look at the percentage of R&D vs sales that's still actually drastically less than they spent in R&D up until about 2005. It could just be that Apple has decided to spend a bit more percentage wise and they have expanded the amount of things they are researching instead of indicating a focus on one specific thing.