7 ms·

Enterprise Sales for Hackers

156 points by katm 10y ago

Spooky23 10y ago
You need to figure out where to partner with others as well.
spydum 10y ago
Pretty good write up. The author glosses over the finance part at their own peril. I'm noticing enterprises with longer and longer payment terms.. As in they mandate their vendors provide net-90, which seems insane to me. It used to be net-60, and even that seemed odd. So be prepared to be flexible to close that sale.
- cylinder 10y ago
  I'm pretty sure this is about controlling quarterly results for public companies. They play around with numbers a lot to make estimates. They can push payables out to the next quarter with net 90.
  - rahimnathwani 10y ago
    The payment terms would not affect the income statement, as the invoice would be recognised in the same period regardless.
    - brazzledazzle 10y ago
      I was under the impression that it's more about budget and the ability to better predict/balance incoming and outgoing funds.
- tonyedgecombe 10y ago
  Once they have made their mind up you can usually push back on that. The purchasing department has been told to buy and if you have been selected as the preferred solution where else are they going to go?
lquist 10y ago
You lost me here: you can consider the typical “coin operated” sales person at a mature company to be more akin to a script kiddie than a hacker. The terminology you use belies a lack of understanding of sales' place in an org and is frankly just insulting. To borrow from Lars Dalgaard [1]: The “coin operated idiots” mindset toward sales is a mistake for a number of reasons. For one thing, it’s a kind of bigotry, because it basically writes off an entire workforce of human beings who create so much value everyday. An outstanding and involved sales force can often make or break a company. It’s why companies with an inferior product but a superior sales force sometimes still win. But the real problem with the coin-operated idiots mindset is that it relegates salespeople only to the field or to the phone, when they really should be considered part of the company leadership. Not this decapitated thing you “slot onto” your organization when you need to... Having a salesperson in the room means bringing in a bullshit meter. The sales rep is the one who is going to say, “I know you’re excited that this product was built on/with such-and-such, but so what? That’s not going to excite my customers. How is this differentiated from everything else out there?” They’ll ask the hard questions. [1] http://a16z.com/2015/06/01/clean-up-your-startups-b-s-bring-sales-into-the-leadership-team/ http://a16z.com/2015/06/01/clean-up-your-startups-b-s-bring-...
- tafda 10y ago
  Having a salesperson in the room means bringing in a bullshit meter "Meter" isn't quite the right noun to go with the adjective here, .
  - Chris2048 10y ago
    Propagator? :-)
- thucydides 10y ago
  That's an uncharitable reading. I do a lot of sales now, and I've watched a lot of enterprise salespeople do their work. As in any other human endeavor, some of them are phenomenal. I routinely sat in on one friend's sales meetings and calls. After being raised watching Gil, the hapless salesman from the Simpsons, this was like watching Billy Joel play the piano or Roger Federer play tennis. It was obvious he was a master craftsman. He was so expert at getting people to act in their own best interest, while making it look pleasant and effortless, it was - seriously - beautiful to watch. Other salespeople... not so much. I've seen them too. They don't have the intellectual horsepower, they don't prepare, they... I mean, frankly there are a million reasons they're mediocre. Their mediocrity is overdetermined. I think that's all the author meant by coin-operated salesperson or "script kiddie" salesperson: a mediocre one.
brandonb 10y ago
If any of you are a hacker trying to learn enterprise sales, a few years ago I wrote a few lessons learned at my first startup here: http://brandonb.cc/enterprise-sales-tips-for-hackers http://brandonb.cc/enterprise-sales-tips-for-hackers Mostly orthogonal to the OP, but there are a few overlapping points.
- jackgavigan 10y ago
  This is far better advice than the OP.
b2b 10y ago
Great article, Ryan. You characterize large enterprise sales as being on the order of "$1M+ deals"[1]. This seems a bit high for a startup with a newish product, but it's certainly achievable. Do you have any insights into how startups can achieve $1M+ in annual contract value (ACV)? What differentiates their product and pricing strategy from a startup that sells software for say $100K a year? [1]: http://themacro.com/articles/2016/05/enterprise-sales-for-hackers/#e3 http://themacro.com/articles/2016/05/enterprise-sales-for-ha...
- notahacker 10y ago
  The product(s) are mostly differentiated by the enterprise salesperson being able to convince the company they will generate a much larger multiple of $1M in revenue or cost savings for the enterprise, and from being able to convince them that any competitive alternative in the 100K price bracket won't yield comparable results. The ways that can work are quite varied: it could be very expensive software that's necessary to control a certain business process, or a standard app that is going to make small (but by an enterprise salesperson, quantifiable) improvements to the productivity of 40,000 staff, or something that's sold with metered usage that the enterprise wants to use a lot. But ultimately to sell at that scale you're almost certainly using "value based pricing" where you start by trying to identify how much the enterprise customer will make/save from your product compared with their next best option, and negotiate down from there.
kinj28 10y ago
Brilliant article. Agree to every bit. This is kind of enterprise sales 101 of point solutions. However if you talk about infratstructure solutions (say mBaaS, etc) - things Become far more complex as many a times you may not have any business end point as your champion.
ianpurton 10y ago
A book that helped me get into enterprise selling is SPIN selling by Neil Rackham. http://www.amazon.com/SPIN-Selling-Neil-Rackham/dp/1565114205 http://www.amazon.com/SPIN-Selling-Neil-Rackham/dp/156511420... Based on research into the field of sales. In summary one of the key differences for enterprise sales is that it's a long process with many people involved.
kriro 10y ago
The point about finance is interesting and probably the one I thought about the least. I think I'll think about it like NFL contracts in the future (front or back loading contracts might be good for their "salary cap" aka budget).
jackgavigan 10y ago
> Usually the more complex the system, the more satisfaction the hacker feels when he or she pwns it. Equating "selling" to "pwning" is not a good way to think about any kind of sales. Talking about "hacking" a customer suggests that they are somehow inferior and that the goal is to somehow beat or triumph over them, to trick them or exploit a vulnerability. No company should think of their potential customers in that way.
- cmdrfred 10y ago
  Yet many do.
- icebraining 10y ago
  In fact, you should guard for the opposite; I've seen plenty of clients trying to "hack" their software providers by exploiting unclear contract clauses, minor slip-ups, communication problems, etc. A decent sale might turn into loss if you're not careful.
osullivj 10y ago
One more important thing you need to know about the enterprise you're selling into: what spending approval levels does the champion and his/her management chain have? Often they'll have discretion over anything under 10K, and will have to seek higher approval for larger sums. This is one of the factors that has driven SaaS monthly charges as opposed to traditional perpetual licenses with six or seven figure tags.

156 points by katm 10y ago

You need to figure out where to partner with others as well.

Pretty good write up. The author glosses over the finance part at their own peril. I'm noticing enterprises with longer and longer payment terms.. As in they mandate their vendors provide net-90, which seems insane to me. It used to be net-60, and even that seemed odd. So be prepared to be flexible to close that sale.

cylinder 10y ago
I'm pretty sure this is about controlling quarterly results for public companies. They play around with numbers a lot to make estimates. They can push payables out to the next quarter with net 90.
- rahimnathwani 10y ago
  The payment terms would not affect the income statement, as the invoice would be recognised in the same period regardless.
  - brazzledazzle 10y ago
    I was under the impression that it's more about budget and the ability to better predict/balance incoming and outgoing funds.
tonyedgecombe 10y ago
Once they have made their mind up you can usually push back on that. The purchasing department has been told to buy and if you have been selected as the preferred solution where else are they going to go?

lquist 10y ago

You lost me here: you can consider the typical “coin operated” sales person at a mature company to be more akin to a script kiddie than a hacker. The terminology you use belies a lack of understanding of sales' place in an org and is frankly just insulting. To borrow from Lars Dalgaard [1]: The “coin operated idiots” mindset toward sales is a mistake for a number of reasons. For one thing, it’s a kind of bigotry, because it basically writes off an entire workforce of human beings who create so much value everyday. An outstanding and involved sales force can often make or break a company. It’s why companies with an inferior product but a superior sales force sometimes still win. But the real problem with the coin-operated idiots mindset is that it relegates salespeople only to the field or to the phone, when they really should be considered part of the company leadership. Not this decapitated thing you “slot onto” your organization when you need to... Having a salesperson in the room means bringing in a bullshit meter. The sales rep is the one who is going to say, “I know you’re excited that this product was built on/with such-and-such, but so what? That’s not going to excite my customers. How is this differentiated from everything else out there?” They’ll ask the hard questions. [1] http://a16z.com/2015/06/01/clean-up-your-startups-b-s-bring-sales-into-the-leadership-team/ http://a16z.com/2015/06/01/clean-up-your-startups-b-s-bring-...

tafda 10y ago
Having a salesperson in the room means bringing in a bullshit meter "Meter" isn't quite the right noun to go with the adjective here, .
- Chris2048 10y ago
  Propagator? :-)
thucydides 10y ago
That's an uncharitable reading. I do a lot of sales now, and I've watched a lot of enterprise salespeople do their work. As in any other human endeavor, some of them are phenomenal. I routinely sat in on one friend's sales meetings and calls. After being raised watching Gil, the hapless salesman from the Simpsons, this was like watching Billy Joel play the piano or Roger Federer play tennis. It was obvious he was a master craftsman. He was so expert at getting people to act in their own best interest, while making it look pleasant and effortless, it was - seriously - beautiful to watch. Other salespeople... not so much. I've seen them too. They don't have the intellectual horsepower, they don't prepare, they... I mean, frankly there are a million reasons they're mediocre. Their mediocrity is overdetermined. I think that's all the author meant by coin-operated salesperson or "script kiddie" salesperson: a mediocre one.

brandonb 10y ago

If any of you are a hacker trying to learn enterprise sales, a few years ago I wrote a few lessons learned at my first startup here: http://brandonb.cc/enterprise-sales-tips-for-hackers http://brandonb.cc/enterprise-sales-tips-for-hackers Mostly orthogonal to the OP, but there are a few overlapping points.

jackgavigan 10y ago
This is far better advice than the OP.

b2b 10y ago

Great article, Ryan. You characterize large enterprise sales as being on the order of "$1M+ deals"[1]. This seems a bit high for a startup with a newish product, but it's certainly achievable. Do you have any insights into how startups can achieve $1M+ in annual contract value (ACV)? What differentiates their product and pricing strategy from a startup that sells software for say $100K a year? [1]: http://themacro.com/articles/2016/05/enterprise-sales-for-hackers/#e3 http://themacro.com/articles/2016/05/enterprise-sales-for-ha...

notahacker 10y ago
The product(s) are mostly differentiated by the enterprise salesperson being able to convince the company they will generate a much larger multiple of $1M in revenue or cost savings for the enterprise, and from being able to convince them that any competitive alternative in the 100K price bracket won't yield comparable results. The ways that can work are quite varied: it could be very expensive software that's necessary to control a certain business process, or a standard app that is going to make small (but by an enterprise salesperson, quantifiable) improvements to the productivity of 40,000 staff, or something that's sold with metered usage that the enterprise wants to use a lot. But ultimately to sell at that scale you're almost certainly using "value based pricing" where you start by trying to identify how much the enterprise customer will make/save from your product compared with their next best option, and negotiate down from there.

kinj28 10y ago

Brilliant article. Agree to every bit. This is kind of enterprise sales 101 of point solutions. However if you talk about infratstructure solutions (say mBaaS, etc) - things Become far more complex as many a times you may not have any business end point as your champion.

ianpurton 10y ago

A book that helped me get into enterprise selling is SPIN selling by Neil Rackham. http://www.amazon.com/SPIN-Selling-Neil-Rackham/dp/1565114205 http://www.amazon.com/SPIN-Selling-Neil-Rackham/dp/156511420... Based on research into the field of sales. In summary one of the key differences for enterprise sales is that it's a long process with many people involved.

kriro 10y ago

The point about finance is interesting and probably the one I thought about the least. I think I'll think about it like NFL contracts in the future (front or back loading contracts might be good for their "salary cap" aka budget).

jackgavigan 10y ago

> Usually the more complex the system, the more satisfaction the hacker feels when he or she pwns it. Equating "selling" to "pwning" is not a good way to think about any kind of sales. Talking about "hacking" a customer suggests that they are somehow inferior and that the goal is to somehow beat or triumph over them, to trick them or exploit a vulnerability. No company should think of their potential customers in that way.

cmdrfred 10y ago
Yet many do.
icebraining 10y ago
In fact, you should guard for the opposite; I've seen plenty of clients trying to "hack" their software providers by exploiting unclear contract clauses, minor slip-ups, communication problems, etc. A decent sale might turn into loss if you're not careful.

osullivj 10y ago

One more important thing you need to know about the enterprise you're selling into: what spending approval levels does the champion and his/her management chain have? Often they'll have discretion over anything under 10K, and will have to seek higher approval for larger sums. This is one of the factors that has driven SaaS monthly charges as opposed to traditional perpetual licenses with six or seven figure tags.