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> Disarming a knife holder is NOT easy. It is. I have been trained in unarmed combat and it is relatively easy with a little training. I personally would be co

by ErrantX 17y ago

> Disarming a knife holder is NOT easy. It is. I have been trained in unarmed combat and it is relatively easy with a little training. I personally would be confident of disarming, with minimal or no injury, someone unfamiliar in handling a knife. The first thing to remember is that if you take and maintain control of their wrist it is very hard for them to attack you - and harder to actually do serious damage. Usually they then focus on trying to regain control of the knife - at which point you either reach over with a spare hand and pressure point them into releasing the knife or you hit the solar plexus or whatever is within easy reach - really hard. EDIT: personally I would drive the heel of your hand into their jaw. It's an easy hit, hard to dodge (as you have their wrist) and big impact. > There is a lot of bullshit in martial arts claims. Being able to dodge bullets, is obviously one of them. Agreed. I think the Hunter story is probably a parable - but Morehei Ueshiba did dodge bullets according to historical accounts [1]. Note that dodging bullets here means he read their body signals and moved out of the path he knew the bullets were going to travel. Still good timing though. Body signal reading is one of the basics of Aikido. > But if you become so cocky you decide to drop your hands and rely on your reflexes, you will be caught by even the worst fighters. Ah... boxing. No disrespect intended here but boxers do get so cocky :D And your right that's where it fails. Martial arts is about discipline. It also trains you not to use reflexes. ever That will get you killed. This comes back to where I mentioned above that waiting to be attacked is the worst move: because you do then have to rely on reflexes to respond. If your attacking your always ahead of your opponent (unless they are also skilled) My personal survival training highlighted one thing: the mantra in a situation where your going to have to fight is - Be first, Be sudden, Be brutal. 1.http://martialarts.jameshom.com/library/weekly/aa043000.htm http://martialarts.jameshom.com/library/weekly/aa043000.htm

coryl 17y ago
Like I said, you can train all you want and have the best training in the world. It still doesn't make it a smart decision to try and engage a robber with a knife. My boxing point was: you pay for your mistakes. The penalty for your mistakes in boxing is a punch. In a knife fight, the penalty is severely amplified. And thats a risk you could totally avoid by NOT pushing the confrontation. So full circle: just because you're trained and think you can take on a knife wielding robber, doesn't mean you should.
- ErrantX 17y ago
  > In a knife fight, the penalty is severely amplified. Unlilkely. This is another point: doing serious damage with a knife is tough (and by serious I mean life threatening). Even if you screw up and take a hit it is unlikely to be serious (or lose you the fight). And if your going to take a more serious hit you shouldn't be trying it :) > just because you're trained and think you can take on a knife wielding robber, doesn't mean you should. It means you should judge the situation and you have the serious option.
  - mos1 17y ago
    The chances of "winning" the physical fight could be insanely high, but it'd still make more sense to first try cooperation, to see if you could avoid the knife fight entirely.
    - ErrantX 17y ago
      I guess my training revolved around the idea that the you should never surrender an advantage if you have it. So my bias disagree's here :) I suspect we are both right.
      - MrHyde 17y ago
        I've been reading your posts on this thread with fascination. Where exactly were you trained, if I might ask? The streets of Compton? No offense intended, it's just that "heavily injured by a baseball bat during training" doesn't sound like national military to me...
        ErrantX 17y ago
        Some initial training in the uk with the military. A little in Brazil (that was more for fun) and a week in India. The last was where I got brained with the bat. My fault. It was the last day and I tripped while practicing defence. I refresh every couple of months.
ErrantX 17y ago
Anyone with unarmed experience / experience in disarming knife fighters care to comment? Unfortunately AFAIK everything I have posted is accurate (well, so far as I have been trained)
- mos1 17y ago
  Unfortunately everything I have posted is accurate (well, so far as I have been trained) Were you trained to believe that people who rob others at knifepoint are generally inexperienced with knife-handling and self-defense? Because your entire post is predicated on that seemingly baseless and extremely risky assumption.
  - ErrantX 17y ago
    No. I've never indicated making that assumption though. Ive discussed your response to a robber who you judge to be unskilled. As I mentioned in the first post I indicated this is usually obvious (if they are skilled/unskilled) and if you are trained you will recognize this. The easiest pointer is how they hold the knife - if they havge it out in front of them (pointed at you) they are probably unskilled. Skilled handlers will hold the knife at their side a few inches from their body pointed away from you at a 30 degree angle. Unskilled handlers will also glance at the knife a lot (you can use this - time your attack to their glancing). If the robber is skilled then, clearly, you need to make a different assessment (and I guess then it comes down to "is he planning to attack me")
    - mos1 17y ago
      You're repeatedly making the claim that you can differentiate, with near 100.00% accuracy, between street fighters who can and can not fight effectively (or get lucky in this one fight). That strikes me as bad math. (and I guess then it comes down to "is he planning to attack me") On this we agree. If there is clearly going to be an attack, then figuring out an optimal fight strategy is wise. But if there is an option not to have an attack, that seems even better.... even if you're confident that you have a 100.00% accurate ability to differentiate between superior/lucky and inferior/unlucky opponents.
yummyfajitas 17y ago
It is. I have been trained in unarmed combat and it is relatively easy with a little training. I personally would be confident of disarming, with minimal or no injury, someone unfamiliar in handling a knife. No, it isn't easy. I'm no expert, but I have been taught by a couple of experts. A 95% success rate is good. It's also really crappy odds when the other guy is trying to stab you. Plus, you don't really know if the other guy is unfamiliar or not. Someone I know who actually is very good with a knife had the following experience: someone broke into his home and attacked him with a knife. After getting stabbed once, he did successfully disarm his attacker and stabbed him. The attacker pulled out another knife and stabbed him again! (Eventually the attacker fled after being stabbed a few times as well.)
- ErrantX 17y ago
  > someone broke into his home and attacked him with a knife. Key point: he was under attack. This lowers your odds quite a bit. Once your friend was wounded (I hope he was ok!) things go massively against him. The aim is to suddenly and brutally disarm your opponent and then disengage. Leaving him either senseless or unsure what happened (and you out of range of a new attack). > Plus, you don't really know if the other guy is unfamiliar or not. I've dealt with this elsewhere - it's mostly about body language and if your trained you can note the signals.
  - greendestiny 17y ago
    Oops accidentally upvoted you. I know it's not as polite as pointing when you accidentally downvote someone, but your series of posts just seems so unrealistic, dangerous and immature that I didn't want to endorse it.
jimbokun 17y ago
"The first thing to remember is that if you take and maintain control of their wrist..." That made me think of this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2REG3-Wb5gM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2REG3-Wb5gM
scott_s 17y ago
It is. I have been trained in unarmed combat and it is relatively easy with a little training. I personally would be confident of disarming, with minimal or no injury, someone unfamiliar in handling a knife. I'm afraid you don't understand the difference between a partner in training who is offering resistance, and a person who is actually trying to hurt you.
- ErrantX 17y ago
  In my case Training != training in a gym in my spare time. I was quite heavily injured actually during unarmed training - but by a baseball bat not a knife :)

by ErrantX 17y ago

coryl 17y ago

Like I said, you can train all you want and have the best training in the world. It still doesn't make it a smart decision to try and engage a robber with a knife. My boxing point was: you pay for your mistakes. The penalty for your mistakes in boxing is a punch. In a knife fight, the penalty is severely amplified. And thats a risk you could totally avoid by NOT pushing the confrontation. So full circle: just because you're trained and think you can take on a knife wielding robber, doesn't mean you should.

ErrantX 17y ago
> In a knife fight, the penalty is severely amplified. Unlilkely. This is another point: doing serious damage with a knife is tough (and by serious I mean life threatening). Even if you screw up and take a hit it is unlikely to be serious (or lose you the fight). And if your going to take a more serious hit you shouldn't be trying it :) > just because you're trained and think you can take on a knife wielding robber, doesn't mean you should. It means you should judge the situation and you have the serious option.
- mos1 17y ago
  The chances of "winning" the physical fight could be insanely high, but it'd still make more sense to first try cooperation, to see if you could avoid the knife fight entirely.
  - ErrantX 17y ago
    I guess my training revolved around the idea that the you should never surrender an advantage if you have it. So my bias disagree's here :) I suspect we are both right.
    - MrHyde 17y ago
      I've been reading your posts on this thread with fascination. Where exactly were you trained, if I might ask? The streets of Compton? No offense intended, it's just that "heavily injured by a baseball bat during training" doesn't sound like national military to me...
      - ErrantX 17y ago
        Some initial training in the uk with the military. A little in Brazil (that was more for fun) and a week in India. The last was where I got brained with the bat. My fault. It was the last day and I tripped while practicing defence. I refresh every couple of months.

ErrantX 17y ago

Anyone with unarmed experience / experience in disarming knife fighters care to comment? Unfortunately AFAIK everything I have posted is accurate (well, so far as I have been trained)

mos1 17y ago
Unfortunately everything I have posted is accurate (well, so far as I have been trained) Were you trained to believe that people who rob others at knifepoint are generally inexperienced with knife-handling and self-defense? Because your entire post is predicated on that seemingly baseless and extremely risky assumption.
- ErrantX 17y ago
  No. I've never indicated making that assumption though. Ive discussed your response to a robber who you judge to be unskilled. As I mentioned in the first post I indicated this is usually obvious (if they are skilled/unskilled) and if you are trained you will recognize this. The easiest pointer is how they hold the knife - if they havge it out in front of them (pointed at you) they are probably unskilled. Skilled handlers will hold the knife at their side a few inches from their body pointed away from you at a 30 degree angle. Unskilled handlers will also glance at the knife a lot (you can use this - time your attack to their glancing). If the robber is skilled then, clearly, you need to make a different assessment (and I guess then it comes down to "is he planning to attack me")
  - mos1 17y ago
    You're repeatedly making the claim that you can differentiate, with near 100.00% accuracy, between street fighters who can and can not fight effectively (or get lucky in this one fight). That strikes me as bad math. (and I guess then it comes down to "is he planning to attack me") On this we agree. If there is clearly going to be an attack, then figuring out an optimal fight strategy is wise. But if there is an option not to have an attack, that seems even better.... even if you're confident that you have a 100.00% accurate ability to differentiate between superior/lucky and inferior/unlucky opponents.

yummyfajitas 17y ago

It is. I have been trained in unarmed combat and it is relatively easy with a little training. I personally would be confident of disarming, with minimal or no injury, someone unfamiliar in handling a knife. No, it isn't easy. I'm no expert, but I have been taught by a couple of experts. A 95% success rate is good. It's also really crappy odds when the other guy is trying to stab you. Plus, you don't really know if the other guy is unfamiliar or not. Someone I know who actually is very good with a knife had the following experience: someone broke into his home and attacked him with a knife. After getting stabbed once, he did successfully disarm his attacker and stabbed him. The attacker pulled out another knife and stabbed him again! (Eventually the attacker fled after being stabbed a few times as well.)

ErrantX 17y ago
> someone broke into his home and attacked him with a knife. Key point: he was under attack. This lowers your odds quite a bit. Once your friend was wounded (I hope he was ok!) things go massively against him. The aim is to suddenly and brutally disarm your opponent and then disengage. Leaving him either senseless or unsure what happened (and you out of range of a new attack). > Plus, you don't really know if the other guy is unfamiliar or not. I've dealt with this elsewhere - it's mostly about body language and if your trained you can note the signals.
- greendestiny 17y ago
  Oops accidentally upvoted you. I know it's not as polite as pointing when you accidentally downvote someone, but your series of posts just seems so unrealistic, dangerous and immature that I didn't want to endorse it.

jimbokun 17y ago

"The first thing to remember is that if you take and maintain control of their wrist..." That made me think of this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2REG3-Wb5gM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2REG3-Wb5gM

scott_s 17y ago

It is. I have been trained in unarmed combat and it is relatively easy with a little training. I personally would be confident of disarming, with minimal or no injury, someone unfamiliar in handling a knife. I'm afraid you don't understand the difference between a partner in training who is offering resistance, and a person who is actually trying to hurt you.

ErrantX 17y ago
In my case Training != training in a gym in my spare time. I was quite heavily injured actually during unarmed training - but by a baseball bat not a knife :)