8 ms·

I just want to send a wrecking ball to Washington DC - I'm not really picky which wrecking ball it is (Trump or Sanders). So while I'd prefer Sanders, its clea

by Aloha 11y ago

I just want to send a wrecking ball to Washington DC - I'm not really picky which wrecking ball it is (Trump or Sanders). So while I'd prefer Sanders, its clear to me that there are some fundamental problems with our economy - both of the two wrecking ball candidates have touched on something in common, which is average americans have lost in the balance of free trade - and that government is far more accessible to the rich and powerful than it is to the common man. In the end, we lived thru 8 years of GWB - and very frankly, I have enough faith in our system of government to feel that its self regulating that we could put pretty much anyone in the office of president and they'd not be able to fuck it up too much. Yes, I expect to get downvoted for tacit support of Trump.

illumin8 11y ago
If you truly believe that someone who is part of the wealthy elite will ever do anything to reduce significant problems like income inequality, immigration reform, and expansion of the police state, you're insane.
- venomsnake 11y ago
  You don't get it. He don't expect Trump to play chess for his team. He expects Trump to blow the chessboard.
- maratd 11y ago
  > reduce significant problems Those voting for him aren't interested in reducing problems or fixing them. They gave up on that a long time ago. They're interested in breaking the system which gave birth to those problems. Will Trump break that system? Maybe. It's a complex system and if he implements any of his wonderful solutions which he put forward so far, it will break a lot of eggs. I'm not entirely sure breaking the system will be a net positive ... but I understand why people would want to vote for him. And it's perfectly rational for them to do so, if what they want is to break the system.
- willholloway 11y ago
  I would normally agree, but not in the case of Trump, because more than anything Donald just wants to be worshiped and adored. A Trump Presidency will be bread and circuses for sure. His ambition is to be a populist tyrant in the mold of Julius Ceasar. I've been enjoying watching a Randian Superhero in action, a completely self-interested man, a man that never gives anything away for free, a man that sees a pledge as just another opportunity to renegotiate better terms for himself. He threatens the power of the Senate more than anything, and by Senate I mean the broad based aristocratic ruling class. His enemies list will be long, and he will retaliate against anyone who so much as dares to dislike him with the full power of the executive branch. It turns out that a majority of GOP voters never really believed in the Conservative principles their betters told them they cared about, save the resentment against rich liberals and poor minorities scrounging government benefits. And he is smart. He saw the opening and he went for it. He can echolocate his opponents weakest point, and mercilessly exploit it for his own advantage. And after he puts anyone in his way down for the count, he becomes gracious the minute they no longer threaten him. He trains his opponents to be scared to go after him, because he hits back hard. Trump, a chauvinist if there ever was one, has effectively made today's media cycle all about Bill Clinton's rape allegations and Hillary's "enabling". A competitor, a dominator, a man without any altruism or thought for collective good, and a genius at manipulating the modern media landscape. If he had more experience with equities and modern finance, rather than mere real estate deals and debt, I would almost think he could bring about some actual beneficial economic reforms for the middle class. He would bully his enemies and the enemies of the masses from the bully pulpit like no other, because at his core, he is a brute, a bully. I would almost want to see him in the presidency just to see what a smart outsider could accomplish in the office if he wasn't such a fascist with a torture fetish. And in the end I think it will be his overreach that will make him the ultimate embarrassed loser this fall. Even when he had the nomination wrapped up through his polarizing tactics to boost his resentful thug vote, he couldn't help himself with more statements sure to alienate female voters. Even this fervent Sanders supporter has to concede that Trump is just a smarter candidate. Trump adapts, his reality and truth is flexible and situational. I still hold out hope for a Sanders upset...
  - harryjo 11y ago
    You have a good finger on what makes Trump successful, but why do you think Trump cares about the masses's enemies, after you so thoroughly explained how well he fights only for himself?
Ianvdl 11y ago
From the site guidelines: > Please resist commenting about being downvoted. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading. > Please don't bait other users by inviting them to downvote you or announce that you expect to get downvoted.
unchocked 11y ago
It's not your tacit support of Trump that earned my downvote, it's that your self-described motivation ("send a wrecking ball") will make the problem you identified ("fundamental problems with our economy") worse, not better. This sort revolutionary fervor is generally counterproductive, and is a large part of why our national politics has become to toxic.
- update 11y ago
  > This sort revolutionary fervor is generally counterproductive Do you have evidence for this claim? because to my mind, the exact opposite is true. I completely agree with OP. I'd prefer Bernie but would take Trump. Some other users were quite rude saying you have to be an idiot to think a rich person would help poor people. I think that's a pretty silly statement, take Bill Gates for instance. IMHO, members of HN are the vocal minority in their outright hatred for Trump. He will most certainly win the nomination if he goes against Hillary.
  - uola 11y ago
    "IMHO, members of HN are the vocal minority in their outright hatred for Trump" Trump (followed by Clinton) is the most disliked candidates in (at least modern) US history. http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/americans-distaste-for-both-trump-and-clinton-is-record-breaking/ http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/americans-distaste-for-b...
    - api 11y ago
      That's fascinating when coupled with the black swan of Trump and the near black swan of Sanders. Note the fact that dislike for elected candidates has been rising for quite some time. The general theme is that Americans are done with the status quo.
      - krapp 11y ago
        >The general theme is that Americans are done with the status quo. And yet it's impossible to win a general election without appealing to moderates and independents.
crispyambulance 11y ago
> I have enough faith in our system of government > to feel that its self regulating that we could > put pretty much anyone in the office of president > and they'd not be able to fuck it up too much. Yeah, what could possibly go wrong other than.... Nomination of supreme court justices that take back decades of progress. Starting new and unnecessary wars, making the geopolitical situation more dangerous and unstable : George W started 2 of them, didn't finish, and we're still dealing with the mess. Have a leader who is a laughing stock, much like Berlusconi was in Italy.
- Aloha 11y ago
  I think the strong principle of the court to hold to stare decisis precludes a dramatic shift one way or another no matter which ideology is nominated to the court. I personally would rather see an ideological centrist appointed.
- mc32 11y ago
  Isn't people's fear that his admin would instead disengage from interventionism? Which is the opposite of getting into foreign wars.
  - mikeyouse 11y ago
    Peoples' fear is that there is no way to tell what he would do since he contradicts himself every time he talks.. One minute he talks about bringing all the troops back to the US and letting the middle east work itself out, the next he's threatening to shoot down Russian war planes if they come near US assets or send 30,000 troops into Syria to fight ISIS. He's also come out in favor of stronger forms of torture than waterboarding and won't rule out nuking Syria..
    - mc32 11y ago
      In actuality I don't see much difference between his stance and Sanders's. They both want to retrench. As for going after Isis and or Russia, it seems that would be congruent with "defending the homeland" which isn't contradictory with respect to disengaging from foreign wars. In other words keep the homeland safe without initiating unprovoked wars and demand allies pay their fair share of expenditures for keeping _their_ territorial integrity. So western Europe, Japan, S Korea, Turkey, Egypt, Israel, etc.
api 11y ago
A wrecking ball must be larger than the structure it demolishes. Throwing Trump or Sanders at DC is like throwing a pebble at the Burj Khalifa. DC changes politicians more than politicians change DC.
- Aloha 11y ago
  I as much want to send a message to the leadership of the two major parties as I want to send a wrecking ball to DC. Things are broken and have got to change.
  - krapp 11y ago
    >Things are broken and have got to change. How many politicians run and win on that line? Maybe if you want actual change, you should elect candidates who have something more substantive to offer than being disgruntled and politically incorrect. Politics seems to be the only profession where having qualifications for the job disqualifies you for the job. I know it's impossible for the Republican party to do that now, because they've hitched their wagon to a narcissistic cryptofascist orangutan, but maybe next time.
    - Aloha 11y ago
      It's as much about breaking the power structures of the existing political parties as it is about changing government, both have to happen to get real change thru - and I'm not too picky on the order.
      - krapp 11y ago
        Trump's entire campaign until now has been for the party's nomination, and the approval of the power structure of an existing political party. What leads you to believe he's actually interested in breaking down the power structures he wants to control?
- morgante 11y ago
  I think Trump is of a different character. He won't even back down when reality hits him smack in the face. He is the king of his own world and does not even acknowledge the existence of a world outside his own. Ask Hindenburg how well it works out to hand over power to authoritarian narcissists in the hopes that governance will somehow tame them.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

by Aloha 11y ago

illumin8 11y ago

If you truly believe that someone who is part of the wealthy elite will ever do anything to reduce significant problems like income inequality, immigration reform, and expansion of the police state, you're insane.

venomsnake 11y ago
You don't get it. He don't expect Trump to play chess for his team. He expects Trump to blow the chessboard.
maratd 11y ago
> reduce significant problems Those voting for him aren't interested in reducing problems or fixing them. They gave up on that a long time ago. They're interested in breaking the system which gave birth to those problems. Will Trump break that system? Maybe. It's a complex system and if he implements any of his wonderful solutions which he put forward so far, it will break a lot of eggs. I'm not entirely sure breaking the system will be a net positive ... but I understand why people would want to vote for him. And it's perfectly rational for them to do so, if what they want is to break the system.
willholloway 11y ago
I would normally agree, but not in the case of Trump, because more than anything Donald just wants to be worshiped and adored. A Trump Presidency will be bread and circuses for sure. His ambition is to be a populist tyrant in the mold of Julius Ceasar. I've been enjoying watching a Randian Superhero in action, a completely self-interested man, a man that never gives anything away for free, a man that sees a pledge as just another opportunity to renegotiate better terms for himself. He threatens the power of the Senate more than anything, and by Senate I mean the broad based aristocratic ruling class. His enemies list will be long, and he will retaliate against anyone who so much as dares to dislike him with the full power of the executive branch. It turns out that a majority of GOP voters never really believed in the Conservative principles their betters told them they cared about, save the resentment against rich liberals and poor minorities scrounging government benefits. And he is smart. He saw the opening and he went for it. He can echolocate his opponents weakest point, and mercilessly exploit it for his own advantage. And after he puts anyone in his way down for the count, he becomes gracious the minute they no longer threaten him. He trains his opponents to be scared to go after him, because he hits back hard. Trump, a chauvinist if there ever was one, has effectively made today's media cycle all about Bill Clinton's rape allegations and Hillary's "enabling". A competitor, a dominator, a man without any altruism or thought for collective good, and a genius at manipulating the modern media landscape. If he had more experience with equities and modern finance, rather than mere real estate deals and debt, I would almost think he could bring about some actual beneficial economic reforms for the middle class. He would bully his enemies and the enemies of the masses from the bully pulpit like no other, because at his core, he is a brute, a bully. I would almost want to see him in the presidency just to see what a smart outsider could accomplish in the office if he wasn't such a fascist with a torture fetish. And in the end I think it will be his overreach that will make him the ultimate embarrassed loser this fall. Even when he had the nomination wrapped up through his polarizing tactics to boost his resentful thug vote, he couldn't help himself with more statements sure to alienate female voters. Even this fervent Sanders supporter has to concede that Trump is just a smarter candidate. Trump adapts, his reality and truth is flexible and situational. I still hold out hope for a Sanders upset...
- harryjo 11y ago
  You have a good finger on what makes Trump successful, but why do you think Trump cares about the masses's enemies, after you so thoroughly explained how well he fights only for himself?

Ianvdl 11y ago

From the site guidelines: > Please resist commenting about being downvoted. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading. > Please don't bait other users by inviting them to downvote you or announce that you expect to get downvoted.

unchocked 11y ago

It's not your tacit support of Trump that earned my downvote, it's that your self-described motivation ("send a wrecking ball") will make the problem you identified ("fundamental problems with our economy") worse, not better. This sort revolutionary fervor is generally counterproductive, and is a large part of why our national politics has become to toxic.

update 11y ago
> This sort revolutionary fervor is generally counterproductive Do you have evidence for this claim? because to my mind, the exact opposite is true. I completely agree with OP. I'd prefer Bernie but would take Trump. Some other users were quite rude saying you have to be an idiot to think a rich person would help poor people. I think that's a pretty silly statement, take Bill Gates for instance. IMHO, members of HN are the vocal minority in their outright hatred for Trump. He will most certainly win the nomination if he goes against Hillary.
- uola 11y ago
  "IMHO, members of HN are the vocal minority in their outright hatred for Trump" Trump (followed by Clinton) is the most disliked candidates in (at least modern) US history. http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/americans-distaste-for-both-trump-and-clinton-is-record-breaking/ http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/americans-distaste-for-b...
  - api 11y ago
    That's fascinating when coupled with the black swan of Trump and the near black swan of Sanders. Note the fact that dislike for elected candidates has been rising for quite some time. The general theme is that Americans are done with the status quo.
    - krapp 11y ago
      >The general theme is that Americans are done with the status quo. And yet it's impossible to win a general election without appealing to moderates and independents.

crispyambulance 11y ago

> I have enough faith in our system of government > to feel that its self regulating that we could > put pretty much anyone in the office of president > and they'd not be able to fuck it up too much. Yeah, what could possibly go wrong other than.... Nomination of supreme court justices that take back decades of progress. Starting new and unnecessary wars, making the geopolitical situation more dangerous and unstable : George W started 2 of them, didn't finish, and we're still dealing with the mess. Have a leader who is a laughing stock, much like Berlusconi was in Italy.

Aloha 11y ago
I think the strong principle of the court to hold to stare decisis precludes a dramatic shift one way or another no matter which ideology is nominated to the court. I personally would rather see an ideological centrist appointed.
mc32 11y ago
Isn't people's fear that his admin would instead disengage from interventionism? Which is the opposite of getting into foreign wars.
- mikeyouse 11y ago
  Peoples' fear is that there is no way to tell what he would do since he contradicts himself every time he talks.. One minute he talks about bringing all the troops back to the US and letting the middle east work itself out, the next he's threatening to shoot down Russian war planes if they come near US assets or send 30,000 troops into Syria to fight ISIS. He's also come out in favor of stronger forms of torture than waterboarding and won't rule out nuking Syria..
  - mc32 11y ago
    In actuality I don't see much difference between his stance and Sanders's. They both want to retrench. As for going after Isis and or Russia, it seems that would be congruent with "defending the homeland" which isn't contradictory with respect to disengaging from foreign wars. In other words keep the homeland safe without initiating unprovoked wars and demand allies pay their fair share of expenditures for keeping _their_ territorial integrity. So western Europe, Japan, S Korea, Turkey, Egypt, Israel, etc.

api 11y ago

A wrecking ball must be larger than the structure it demolishes. Throwing Trump or Sanders at DC is like throwing a pebble at the Burj Khalifa. DC changes politicians more than politicians change DC.

Aloha 11y ago
I as much want to send a message to the leadership of the two major parties as I want to send a wrecking ball to DC. Things are broken and have got to change.
- krapp 11y ago
  >Things are broken and have got to change. How many politicians run and win on that line? Maybe if you want actual change, you should elect candidates who have something more substantive to offer than being disgruntled and politically incorrect. Politics seems to be the only profession where having qualifications for the job disqualifies you for the job. I know it's impossible for the Republican party to do that now, because they've hitched their wagon to a narcissistic cryptofascist orangutan, but maybe next time.
  - Aloha 11y ago
    It's as much about breaking the power structures of the existing political parties as it is about changing government, both have to happen to get real change thru - and I'm not too picky on the order.
    - krapp 11y ago
      Trump's entire campaign until now has been for the party's nomination, and the approval of the power structure of an existing political party. What leads you to believe he's actually interested in breaking down the power structures he wants to control?
morgante 11y ago
I think Trump is of a different character. He won't even back down when reality hits him smack in the face. He is the king of his own world and does not even acknowledge the existence of a world outside his own. Ask Hindenburg how well it works out to hand over power to authoritarian narcissists in the hopes that governance will somehow tame them.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]