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I consider this to be a big deal. Most people don't realize that retail orders( orders from an ordinary person) almost never reach an exchange. Funds like Cit
by chollida1 10y ago
I consider this to be a big deal. Most people don't realize that retail orders( orders from an ordinary person) almost never reach an exchange.
Funds like Citadel and KCG pay the banks and brokerages( Schwab, Vanguard, etc) hunderes of millions per year to get their order flow. Here's a reuters article about Schawb's pay for order flow:
http://www.reuters.com/article/schwab-ceo-proposal-idUSL1N0O12EC20140515 http://www.reuters.com/article/schwab-ceo-proposal-idUSL1N0O...
> Trading companies, including market makers such as UBS , KCG Holdings and hedge fund Citadel LLC, are willing to compete for retail investors' orders because they are considered "dumb money" that shows the professionals where markets are headed.
> In reporting first-quarter earnings last month, Schwab said that it expects to earn about $100 million this year from selling client orders, the first time it gave out a specific number, and higher than the estimate it had given a few weeks earlier to Reuters.
and here is the breakdown of their order flow:
https://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/nn/legal_compliance/important_notices/order_routing.html https://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/nn/legal_compliance/imp...
The funds then get a free look at these orders where if they are beneficial to them they can fill the order, or if they aren't, then they can pass the order onto an exchange.
If you thought flash orders were bad, these are much worse and flash orders were discontinued years ago.
If you thought HFT funds were bad then consider atleast HFT funds have to put their orders out to the market and take the risk that they'll get rolled over when the market moves. ie they put their money where their mouth is and they compete every day on a level play ground with the rest of the market makers.
These internalizers often hold orders up for up to a second, before they choose to fill them or let them go and when you consider that the IEX delay of 350 micro seconds, not milliseconds, is considered contentious you get a good idea of just how scummy things have gotten.
in an unrelated piece of news Reuters today wrote a piece showing the top paid hedge fund managers. Citadel's founder Ken Griffin can in first, taking home 1.7 Billion last year. This is really the DOJ taking on the biggest players on wall street.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-hedgefunds-compensation-idUSKCN0Y11D1?feedType=RSS&feedName=businessNews&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+reuters%2FbusinessNews+%28Business+News%29 http://www.reuters.com/article/us-hedgefunds-compensation-id...
- rayiner 10y ago> These internalizers often hold orders up for up to a second, before they choose to fill them or let them go and when you consider that the IEX delay of 350 nano seconds, not milliseconds, is considered contentious you get a good idea of just how scummy things have gotten. Do you mean microseconds? Because 350 nanoseconds is only long enough for light to travel about 250 feet in fiber.
- chollida1 10y agoyes sorry, I've already updated it.
- tcoppi 10y agoI'm not sure how paying for order flow is still legal. At this point it is basically brokerages offloading their fiduciary obligations(for money!) to legalized front-running operations. As the article says, these operations are basically operating as exchanges, and they probably need to be regulated as such.
- kasey_junk 10y agoI think that more information being available about order flow practices is all-in-all a good thing, and I encourage the relevant regulatory authorities to watch it like a hawk. That said, I much prefer my free trades from Robinhood that are the outcome of payment for order flow, than I did the $25 it used to cost me to trade. For the kind of trading I do, it is a much better deal to let the internalizers capture the spread (even if it is not the true spread) than it is to not have internalizers.
- tcoppi 10y agoI agree, this is definitely a double-edged sword. Hopefully the outcome of this investigation is more transparency and fairness for retail traders, without completely destroying the execution cost reduction that has been made possible by them.
- kasey_junk 10y ago