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This is really interesting, but I'd want autonomous cars to be better than humans at driving, not to emulate them.
by birdmanjeremy 10y ago
This is really interesting, but I'd want autonomous cars to be better than humans at driving, not to emulate them.
- hedgehog 10y agoThe neural net that accurately predicts human control inputs also extracts the relevant features you would want to build a more principled autopilot. For example you could take one of these nets and then for build a speed limit sign locator on top of it without training a whole net for that from scratch. Using that you could then hard code the rules for obeying the speed limit into a more traditional planner.
- rdabane 10y agoYeah,make sense. But this is the first example I've seen where the network is trained only with driver's input. Has anyone seen this kind of approach before?
- cryptoz 10y agoThere are real potential advantages to training networks using human behaviors. For example, the person-to-person communication that takes place while driving might be better understood by machines this way. - Was that an obscene gesture or a thank you wave? - Did the other driver suggest I go forward or tell me to stop? - etc
- rdabane 10y agoWondering if they have to create near collision scenarios in order to train the network :-)
- anonymfus 10y agoThis technology is much more universal than just autonomous cars.
- andrewchambers 10y agoThey need some sort of prefilter to remove any bad driving habits before training begins I suppose.
- jonny_eh 10y agoI imagine with enough training data from enough drivers that bad habits will disappear as noise.
- msandford 10y agoDepends on the "bad habit". A huge number of people speed. How's that going to disappear as noise?
- cwe 10y agoI'd like to believe that would be the case, but I live in Seattle.
- andrewchambers 10y agowouldn't it just converge on an average driver? not even a good one.
- johntb86 10y agoFrom the paper: To train a CNN to do lane following we only select data where the driver was staying in a lane and discard the rest.
- jonny_eh 10y agoEven if it was trained to drive like a human, it'd be better in many ways: It never gets drunk, doesn't get tired, doesn't get distracted, can drive old people (or anyone) around who shouldn't be driving anymore, etc.
- blazespin 10y agoYeah, but if a computer screwed up like a human we'd never hear the end of it.
- taf2 10y agoThis almost sounds like the line from terminator two. "It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ..."
- smackmybishop 10y agoThat's the first Terminator. Terminator 2 would be: It would never leave him, and it would never hurt him, never shout at him, or get drunk and hit him, or say it was too busy to spend time with him. It would always be there. And it would die, to protect him.
- jfoutz 10y agoI couldn't find the article, but i remember a project learning from remote control plane pilots. People mess up all the time. It's not even drunk or tired, there's just errors every so often, it's almost statistical. The little errors people make wash out as noise.
- blazespin 10y agoGood point. But there are a lot of things like self driving cars where emulating would be a quantum leap forward...
- elihu 10y agoI've read that one of the problems with Google's self-driving cars has been that other cars tend to run into them because the self-driving cars drive extremely conservatively and violate other driver's expectations of how a typical California driver is expected to behave. I think this sort of thing is something developers are going to have to find ways of dealing with; a car can be technically driving in a safe, legal way but if it's too different from how a human would drive, they are going to be a safety hazard. Of course, standard driving behavior varies dramatically from place to place. For instance, in the United States, everyone is expected to get out of the way of whichever car has the right-of-way in that situation. In Indonesia, the car that has the right-of-way is expected to slow down, stop, or move over to accommodate other cars that do things like pull out in front of them in an intersection or pass on a two-lane road with oncoming traffic. A self-driving car in Jakarta would need to be trained very differently than a self-driving car in Seattle or Paris. Not just because the traffic laws are different, but because drivers have very different expectations about what is normal behavior.
- blazespin 10y agoSelf driving cars must do significantly better safety wise otherwise the adoption will be hampered. Plus, the whole point here I think is to save lives. Google self driving cars arent really a hazard they're more just very annoying because they are overly cautious.
- mechanon05 10y agoI feel like people just assume that they are annoying to drive around, but very few people actually have experience driving around google's cars. The times that I'm around them (a few mornings a week), they are never in any way weird or annoying. In fact, they are extremely predictable, and therefor, if anything, less annoying to drive around.
- mikeyouse 10y agoI agree -- they never encroach in your lane, they signal with plenty of room to spare, they don't threaten to pull out in front of you, in many different ways, they're preferable to human (Californian) drivers.
- dpflan 10y agoI think the trick is not to mix autonomous and non-autonomous. Cities delegate autonomous only zones where no non-autonomous cars can go; this creates a transportation circulatory system and safe experimental zone which can expand - which can include just making the area of city only for autonomous cars larger or gradual commingling with non-autonomous cars. Or again partial autonomy of cars on highways / more predictable driving scenarios, like we are already seeing.
- sammyo 10y agoBut this is just wrong. Virtually the only accidents were people rear ending a stopped car at a red light. The current google cars are probably improving the general driving safety.
- robbrown451 10y agoThat seems like the trick to making sure they are never adopted in a big way. I mean sure, that's an easy problem to solve but in that case why use cars at all and not people movers or the like?
- marcosdumay 10y agoNo problem in it driving like the best human drivers around.