7 ms·

Facebook and Oculus exec leaving to work on wearable MRI

55 points by T-A 11y ago

gjolund 11y ago
I wonder how much of this is due to Oculus's clear lagging behind it competitors. HTC and Sony both have platforms that a more robust and better positioned to capture gamers than Oculus. I wouldn't want to stick around either.
- Raphmedia 11y ago
  I'm not so sure about that. Once the touch controllers start shipping out with the second camera, they will be equal if not better than the competition. They are also researching inside out tracking for mobile VR which is very exciting!
  - shostack 11y ago
    What is inside out tracking? Is that like tracking the facial movements and such inside the headset to allow an accurate facial projection while wearing the headset?
    - carb 11y ago
      Better. It's positional tracking using one or more cameras on the headset. No more external cameras, laser base stations, and limited tracking area.
      - danielbln 11y ago
        The term inside-out tracking does not make any assertions about requiring fixed external reference points. The Vive is using inside-out tracking as well, since it utilizes photo diodes on the headset that interpret the external IR laser sweeps.
  - gjolund 11y ago
    Have you used an HTC Vive? I have a couple oculus and they are nowhere near the HTC Vive in terms of immersion.
    - MikusR 11y ago
      You have access to Oculus touch? What makes Vive wands better for immersion compared to Oculus touch?
    - pmh 11y ago
      I've recently used both and think they're equal in terms of immersion when the Vive is roughly around the minimum space requirements. For gaming, I could take either; for non-gaming experiences, I haven't seen anything on the Vive that wouldn't feel similar on the Oculus or vice-versa. If you have a large open space the Vive may pull ahead, but I haven't tried anything that could take advantage of that. FWIW, I was sold on VR when I first tried DK1, but now having tried the consumer version and the Vive (years later), I'm even more excited.
      - gjolund 11y ago
        I found the vive to be much more immersive, and the games being developed for it felt like they truly understood the capabilities of VR. I'm really excited about the competition in the space, it is only going to be good for VR enthusiasts.
    - Raphmedia 11y ago
      A couple of Oculus devices (dk1, dk2) or a couple of Rifts (without touch controllers)? I did say that we will need to wait for the second camera + touch controllers for the Rift to be on par with the Vive.
- onewaystreet 11y ago
  > better positioned to capture gamers If this generation of VR gets relegated to gaming then it should be considered a failure.
  - ryanSrich 11y ago
    Immersive VR experiences outside of gaming are really really hard. AR has a much better chance of capturing the non-gamer market.
    - gjolund 11y ago
      Agreed, VR is very anti-social. I have several oculus and there is no real viable use outside of game that I have used. Screen replacement is a no go, way to much eyestrain.
      - cududa 11y ago
        In a few generations that could be alieviated though
      - kybernetikos 11y ago
        Surprised to hear you say that. When I got my first oculus, I was struck by how much better it was for nongaming applications than gaming ones. Things like Giants of the Solar System, or tours around historical sites and events. Things like providing visualisation of designs that are yet to be built. Taking a small object and examining it closely in 3d at different scales. Education, training. I actually think the gaming features of the current crop could end up being a niche use.
      - danielbln 11y ago
        VR is not inherently anti-social. Applications like AltspaceVR are very social. Also, I've had groups of people at my home to try out the Vive while projecting the headset content to a wall, and it's always a very inclusive and social experience where HMD wearer and audience participate alike. In terms of eyestrain, I think you may want to check the IPD setting on your headset (if you own one that supports it), since due to being focused at a farther distance than regular monitors, it should be (and is for me) quite a bit less straining on the eyes. Resolution is still sub-par for screen replacement though.
caycep 11y ago
I think the undercurrent behind this is the new magnetorheological technologies now available...before, the solid state physics behind the magnets necessitates the huge size of the things...
- neuro_imager 11y ago
  Please would you elaborate on this? Or provide some sort of reference?
roywiggins 11y ago
Current MRIs need liquid helium to keep their electromagnets superconducting. Short of room-temperature superconductors... how are they planning to pull this off? Screw wearability, being able to make an MRI machine smaller than a small car that doesn't need helium would be worth $$$ on its own.
- smitec 11y ago
  There are a number of machines that don't use superconducting magnets and hence don't have such stringent cooling needs. These machines typically need these sort of cooling setups to support higher fields but imaging is still possible at low field. Some years ago, and I'm by no means up to date with this, there was a group working on imaging using the earth's magnetic field as the main field [1]. While this is the extreme MRI has been functional longer than superconducting magnets have been feasible. On the flip side of this things like compressed sensing and MRI fingerprinting [2] reduce further the need for a traditional 'full' scan. We are still some way off seeing these sorts of things in clinical MRI but that may be more attributable to the pace at which companies like GE and Phillips move in this space. That and the sheer cost of R&D. Overall it is a pretty exciting time to be in MRI, despite the outside view being that it has changed very little in recent decades. disclosure: PhD candidate in electrical engineering, focused on MRI [1] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16828566 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16828566 [2] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4376817/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4376817/
  - npunt 11y ago
    Cool! Will this mean MRIs take less time in the future? If so, any sense for how much less? I imagine it'd be more routine and give more people accurate diagnostics if it took 5-10 minutes instead of 45 to get a scan.
    - smitec 11y ago
      That's the hope. A little outside my field but current compressed sensing in MRI research is looking at reduction factors of about 2-8 (typically 2, 4, or 8 from tradition) in compressed sensing. This is still pretty rare in commercial machines though. Some sequences such as EPI [1] can get images very fast (200ms) with a trade off in spatial resolution. This is for things like cardiac imaging where low resolution images of the heard every 200ms are more useful than a single high resolution image. Also for moving parts of the body there is often blurring artefacts due to movement within the image window using longer sequence types. Unfortunately I think the biggest inhibitor of MRI being more common is still the price of a scan. Here in Australia it can be a few hundred dollars for a scan (and I understand it can be far more elsewhere). Again though if we had access to a cheaper option the idea of regular scans may not be too far off. I like to imagine a point in the future where the sci-fi full body diagnostic scanning is a reality. Still a lot of work to get there but it is certainly getting closer. [1] http://radiopaedia.org/articles/echo-planar-imaging-1 http://radiopaedia.org/articles/echo-planar-imaging-1
throw_128475 11y ago
> Jepsen, whose background and resume could leave most people gasping, is one of tech’s true, long-haul, entrepreneurial visionaries. AFAICT, Jepsen has been more of a seagull [1] than anything. The reality is... she's been a high profile participant in a series of short-term, failed endeavors -- from OLPC, Pixel Qi, a failed Google[x] project, and now a very short stint at FB. All of these failings are well documented on Wikipedia [2]. They sound good in principle, but have never delivered. The MRI goal is laudable, and I hope for humanity's sake that it works. But I'd hold off on the admiration until it's more than vaporware -- especially with Jepsen at the helm. Throw away account since I'm too close to her past endeavors to speak publicly. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seagull_manager https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seagull_manager [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Lou_Jepsen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Lou_Jepsen
- pg_is_a_butt 11y ago
  so, what you're saying is that a woman can work at both google and facebook. gender war over. oh wait, she sucked at both jobs? carry on.
- bigethan 11y ago
  So, in your estimation, what's an acceptable success rate for someone who only really works on moon shot ideas? I'm curious why you think she's a bellwether for failure as opposed to someone who is driven to take on world changing ideas. If you're only going to say "I'm too close to her" and call her some bad things with an anon account, well, you probably just shouldn't have posted. I'm all for learning from the experiences people have interacting with the technocrati, but this post feels petty and lacks information.
  - jqgatsby 11y ago
    "once, you're lucky. twice, you're good" could be a reasonable metric for execs who take on high risk projects.
- venachescu 11y ago
  I'd like to dismiss this as a little bit of jealous gossip, but the more I read the more it fits. Not to say the things she's done haven't been impressive but she seems like a person better at winning awards and having fanciful features written about her than creating really wide reaching impact. Many of these projects really strike me as a feel-good ideas that are much more beautiful to the wide-eyed technologist futurist types, than to the intended markets / consumers / world at large. But yeah, I'd like nothing more than to be wrong on this. All of these ideas, if true to their promises would indeed be worth the "visionary" labels.
benbojangles 11y ago
I think that it is more likely the exec is going to apply Augmented VR for viewing MRI imaging. So, 'wearable MRI' is somewhat Misinterpreted. I doubt it is an actual MRI scanner, just a novelty way of augmentation
- benbojangles 11y ago
  But I suppose you've got to try to generate billions somehow :)
mhalle 11y ago
Mary Lou Jepsen gave a talk about her ideas at the Media Lab 30th anniversary: http://www.media.mit.edu/video/view/ml30-2015-10-30-03 http://www.media.mit.edu/video/view/ml30-2015-10-30-03 Her talk starts at about 45:20.
- rl3 11y ago
  Jepsen intends to build a "Diffuse Optical Tomography"[0] system using liquid crystals as a means of achieving both miniaturization as well as a dramatic increase in the emitter count. A beanie hat was used as a visualization of the final consumer-facing product. Suffice it to say, there will probably be no use of low-field MR, nor anything like MEG—let alone both.[1][2] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffuse_optical_imaging https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffuse_optical_imaging [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetoencephalography https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetoencephalography [2] https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/07/120726102756.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/07/120726102756.h...

55 points by T-A 11y ago

I wonder how much of this is due to Oculus's clear lagging behind it competitors. HTC and Sony both have platforms that a more robust and better positioned to capture gamers than Oculus. I wouldn't want to stick around either.

Raphmedia 11y ago
I'm not so sure about that. Once the touch controllers start shipping out with the second camera, they will be equal if not better than the competition. They are also researching inside out tracking for mobile VR which is very exciting!
- shostack 11y ago
  What is inside out tracking? Is that like tracking the facial movements and such inside the headset to allow an accurate facial projection while wearing the headset?
  - carb 11y ago
    Better. It's positional tracking using one or more cameras on the headset. No more external cameras, laser base stations, and limited tracking area.
    - danielbln 11y ago
      The term inside-out tracking does not make any assertions about requiring fixed external reference points. The Vive is using inside-out tracking as well, since it utilizes photo diodes on the headset that interpret the external IR laser sweeps.
- gjolund 11y ago
  Have you used an HTC Vive? I have a couple oculus and they are nowhere near the HTC Vive in terms of immersion.
  - MikusR 11y ago
    You have access to Oculus touch? What makes Vive wands better for immersion compared to Oculus touch?
  - pmh 11y ago
    I've recently used both and think they're equal in terms of immersion when the Vive is roughly around the minimum space requirements. For gaming, I could take either; for non-gaming experiences, I haven't seen anything on the Vive that wouldn't feel similar on the Oculus or vice-versa. If you have a large open space the Vive may pull ahead, but I haven't tried anything that could take advantage of that. FWIW, I was sold on VR when I first tried DK1, but now having tried the consumer version and the Vive (years later), I'm even more excited.
    - gjolund 11y ago
      I found the vive to be much more immersive, and the games being developed for it felt like they truly understood the capabilities of VR. I'm really excited about the competition in the space, it is only going to be good for VR enthusiasts.
  - Raphmedia 11y ago
    A couple of Oculus devices (dk1, dk2) or a couple of Rifts (without touch controllers)? I did say that we will need to wait for the second camera + touch controllers for the Rift to be on par with the Vive.
onewaystreet 11y ago
> better positioned to capture gamers If this generation of VR gets relegated to gaming then it should be considered a failure.
- ryanSrich 11y ago
  Immersive VR experiences outside of gaming are really really hard. AR has a much better chance of capturing the non-gamer market.
  - gjolund 11y ago
    Agreed, VR is very anti-social. I have several oculus and there is no real viable use outside of game that I have used. Screen replacement is a no go, way to much eyestrain.
    - cududa 11y ago
      In a few generations that could be alieviated though
    - kybernetikos 11y ago
      Surprised to hear you say that. When I got my first oculus, I was struck by how much better it was for nongaming applications than gaming ones. Things like Giants of the Solar System, or tours around historical sites and events. Things like providing visualisation of designs that are yet to be built. Taking a small object and examining it closely in 3d at different scales. Education, training. I actually think the gaming features of the current crop could end up being a niche use.
    - danielbln 11y ago
      VR is not inherently anti-social. Applications like AltspaceVR are very social. Also, I've had groups of people at my home to try out the Vive while projecting the headset content to a wall, and it's always a very inclusive and social experience where HMD wearer and audience participate alike. In terms of eyestrain, I think you may want to check the IPD setting on your headset (if you own one that supports it), since due to being focused at a farther distance than regular monitors, it should be (and is for me) quite a bit less straining on the eyes. Resolution is still sub-par for screen replacement though.

caycep 11y ago

I think the undercurrent behind this is the new magnetorheological technologies now available...before, the solid state physics behind the magnets necessitates the huge size of the things...

neuro_imager 11y ago
Please would you elaborate on this? Or provide some sort of reference?

roywiggins 11y ago

Current MRIs need liquid helium to keep their electromagnets superconducting. Short of room-temperature superconductors... how are they planning to pull this off? Screw wearability, being able to make an MRI machine smaller than a small car that doesn't need helium would be worth $$$ on its own.

smitec 11y ago
There are a number of machines that don't use superconducting magnets and hence don't have such stringent cooling needs. These machines typically need these sort of cooling setups to support higher fields but imaging is still possible at low field. Some years ago, and I'm by no means up to date with this, there was a group working on imaging using the earth's magnetic field as the main field [1]. While this is the extreme MRI has been functional longer than superconducting magnets have been feasible. On the flip side of this things like compressed sensing and MRI fingerprinting [2] reduce further the need for a traditional 'full' scan. We are still some way off seeing these sorts of things in clinical MRI but that may be more attributable to the pace at which companies like GE and Phillips move in this space. That and the sheer cost of R&D. Overall it is a pretty exciting time to be in MRI, despite the outside view being that it has changed very little in recent decades. disclosure: PhD candidate in electrical engineering, focused on MRI [1] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16828566 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16828566 [2] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4376817/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4376817/
- npunt 11y ago
  Cool! Will this mean MRIs take less time in the future? If so, any sense for how much less? I imagine it'd be more routine and give more people accurate diagnostics if it took 5-10 minutes instead of 45 to get a scan.
  - smitec 11y ago
    That's the hope. A little outside my field but current compressed sensing in MRI research is looking at reduction factors of about 2-8 (typically 2, 4, or 8 from tradition) in compressed sensing. This is still pretty rare in commercial machines though. Some sequences such as EPI [1] can get images very fast (200ms) with a trade off in spatial resolution. This is for things like cardiac imaging where low resolution images of the heard every 200ms are more useful than a single high resolution image. Also for moving parts of the body there is often blurring artefacts due to movement within the image window using longer sequence types. Unfortunately I think the biggest inhibitor of MRI being more common is still the price of a scan. Here in Australia it can be a few hundred dollars for a scan (and I understand it can be far more elsewhere). Again though if we had access to a cheaper option the idea of regular scans may not be too far off. I like to imagine a point in the future where the sci-fi full body diagnostic scanning is a reality. Still a lot of work to get there but it is certainly getting closer. [1] http://radiopaedia.org/articles/echo-planar-imaging-1 http://radiopaedia.org/articles/echo-planar-imaging-1

throw_128475 11y ago

> Jepsen, whose background and resume could leave most people gasping, is one of tech’s true, long-haul, entrepreneurial visionaries. AFAICT, Jepsen has been more of a seagull [1] than anything. The reality is... she's been a high profile participant in a series of short-term, failed endeavors -- from OLPC, Pixel Qi, a failed Google[x] project, and now a very short stint at FB. All of these failings are well documented on Wikipedia [2]. They sound good in principle, but have never delivered. The MRI goal is laudable, and I hope for humanity's sake that it works. But I'd hold off on the admiration until it's more than vaporware -- especially with Jepsen at the helm. Throw away account since I'm too close to her past endeavors to speak publicly. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seagull_manager https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seagull_manager [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Lou_Jepsen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Lou_Jepsen

pg_is_a_butt 11y ago
so, what you're saying is that a woman can work at both google and facebook. gender war over. oh wait, she sucked at both jobs? carry on.
bigethan 11y ago
So, in your estimation, what's an acceptable success rate for someone who only really works on moon shot ideas? I'm curious why you think she's a bellwether for failure as opposed to someone who is driven to take on world changing ideas. If you're only going to say "I'm too close to her" and call her some bad things with an anon account, well, you probably just shouldn't have posted. I'm all for learning from the experiences people have interacting with the technocrati, but this post feels petty and lacks information.
- jqgatsby 11y ago
  "once, you're lucky. twice, you're good" could be a reasonable metric for execs who take on high risk projects.
venachescu 11y ago
I'd like to dismiss this as a little bit of jealous gossip, but the more I read the more it fits. Not to say the things she's done haven't been impressive but she seems like a person better at winning awards and having fanciful features written about her than creating really wide reaching impact. Many of these projects really strike me as a feel-good ideas that are much more beautiful to the wide-eyed technologist futurist types, than to the intended markets / consumers / world at large. But yeah, I'd like nothing more than to be wrong on this. All of these ideas, if true to their promises would indeed be worth the "visionary" labels.

benbojangles 11y ago

I think that it is more likely the exec is going to apply Augmented VR for viewing MRI imaging. So, 'wearable MRI' is somewhat Misinterpreted. I doubt it is an actual MRI scanner, just a novelty way of augmentation

benbojangles 11y ago
But I suppose you've got to try to generate billions somehow :)

mhalle 11y ago

Mary Lou Jepsen gave a talk about her ideas at the Media Lab 30th anniversary: http://www.media.mit.edu/video/view/ml30-2015-10-30-03 http://www.media.mit.edu/video/view/ml30-2015-10-30-03 Her talk starts at about 45:20.

rl3 11y ago
Jepsen intends to build a "Diffuse Optical Tomography"[0] system using liquid crystals as a means of achieving both miniaturization as well as a dramatic increase in the emitter count. A beanie hat was used as a visualization of the final consumer-facing product. Suffice it to say, there will probably be no use of low-field MR, nor anything like MEG—let alone both.[1][2] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffuse_optical_imaging https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffuse_optical_imaging [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetoencephalography https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetoencephalography [2] https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/07/120726102756.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/07/120726102756.h...