4 ms·

Depression, like obesity, is acquired, habitual change due to environmental factors. Non fraudulent CBT (active traveling in a unfamilar environment as a simple

Depression, like obesity, is acquired, habitual change due to environmental factors. Non fraudulent CBT (active traveling in a unfamilar environment as a simplest example) is enough to introduce persistent changes (that is why there are so many stories about profound changes people undergo after visiting the East - radical behavioral change will lead, through conditioning, to change in biochemistry - body is a dynamic, adaptive system). There is, of course, no way to change one's physical or mental conditions without introducing changes to habits, daily routines and environment.

a2m 10y ago
sounds good. so how do i get off my ass and do it?
- dschiptsov 10y ago
  Like everyone else.
  - brillenfux 10y ago
    You sure have the answers, pal.
    - dschiptsov 10y ago
      There was a guy named Jack Kerouac, among many. One could literally see how it works for others.
      - ap22213 10y ago
        Puzzled (but also fascinated) at your motivation to post ignorant and seemingly inflammatory comments like this. But, there's probably a CBT treatment for it, right? Please let us know how the treatment goes.
        dschiptsov 10y ago
        The meaning was that roughly two thirds of world's classic literature is about how people are capable to alter their life circumstances and conditioning. There might be a legitimate question of which particular CBT is more efficient, but there is no question of whether or not it works. Smart people usually bootstraping individual CBTs for themselves. Some, like Hermann Hesse, even wrote books about it.
        YngwieMalware 10y ago
        One of the many mistakes you've made in your string of bad posting is the assumption that all brains behave the same. Another mistake is being histrionic as hell. Maybe you could CBT some of that away by not posting.
      - willu 10y ago
        You mean the Jack Kerouac who ended up drinking himself to death? Perhaps the road trips did not cure all ails.
        dschiptsov 10y ago
        Consider the magnitude change his character had undergo after he left mom's basement in New York. Kerouac himself was smart-enough to realize the dynamic and illusory nature of what we call "myself" (it was one of his main themes - unfolding of Cody and himself and of everything else) and that his alcoholism was the cause of his suffering. Why he didn't choose to fight it is another question. Perhaps, it was too late.
s_m_t 10y ago
This may very well be true, however, some people may still need help in the form of drugs to get them to a point where they can actually begin to make those changes.
pfarnsworth 10y ago
This is, of course, bullshit. I know two friends who acquired their depression genetically from their parents, and it manifested itself in them, and their siblings as well. At times they were extremely suicidal, and they described it as waking up and wanting to kill themselves every day, and not killing themselves was the biggest struggle they ever faced.
- dschiptsov 10y ago
  Genetic depression is really bullshit.) These "genes" would have been wiped out in a few generations. Genetics does not work that way.) Behavior straight out of genes, without social and environmental conditioning is bullshit. Behavior is product of training and acquired habits, guided by hard-wired instincts and emotions. There might be some predispositions - mutations which introduce minor changes (there cannot be major ones - changes must be small and gradual enough for the organizm to cope with) into some locations, which affect sensitivity to certain chemical compound (hormones, neurotransmitters) or minor structural changes which affects metabolism, but all this could be easily compensated by behavioral patterns on a higher level. Animals and people with sudden traumas leading to disability are doing this, but way too sophisticated, self-obsessed hipstes and couch potatoes cannot.
  - berntb 10y ago
    I think most people reading here are aware of the genotype/phenotype distinction, so you don't need to make that point. As for the argument that a tendency like this would disappear in a few generations -- we're in a very different environment compared to history (see previous paragraph, in fact...)
  - mabbo 10y ago
    Right, just like all other diseases. If any disease had a genetic origin, it would be wiped out within a few generations. Oh, except for all of these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genetic_disorders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genetic_disorders There are even lots of diseases that provide strange benefits that protect the sufferer from other illnesses. Having half the genes for sickle-cell trait will give you strong resistance to malaria. Having both is a terrible illness. Huntington's Disease seems to provide resistance to certain types of cancers, but when you turn 35 or 40 your life becomes a real nightmare. The point is that the purpose of genetics is not to promote healthy humans, it's to promote the reproduction of the group of genes in question. Genes will use all kinds of tricky methods to duplicate themselves, including all kinds of things that are awful for the person with them.
nefitty 10y ago
‘Researchers have found that CBT is roughly half as effective in treating depression as it used to be’ http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/jul/03/why-cbt-is-falling-out-of-favour-oliver-burkeman http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/jul/03/why-cbt-...
- dschiptsov 10y ago
  Why should I take a tabloid story that refers to a study which is unaware of profound cross-cultural differences in what depression is seriously? Like obesity, it is an acquired, habitual disorder due to certain "standards of life", overconsumption and resulting pathological behavioral patterns, similar in nature to autoimmune diseases, BTW. It is due to major environmental, not genetic factors.
  - nefitty 10y ago
    Then, like any culturally-mediated behavior, it changes over time. People responded to CBT before, now they respond less. Chemical interventions sometimes work. I'm confused by your stubbornness on this point.

a2m 10y ago

sounds good. so how do i get off my ass and do it?

dschiptsov 10y ago
Like everyone else.
- brillenfux 10y ago
  You sure have the answers, pal.
  - dschiptsov 10y ago
    There was a guy named Jack Kerouac, among many. One could literally see how it works for others.
    - ap22213 10y ago
      Puzzled (but also fascinated) at your motivation to post ignorant and seemingly inflammatory comments like this. But, there's probably a CBT treatment for it, right? Please let us know how the treatment goes.
      - dschiptsov 10y ago
        The meaning was that roughly two thirds of world's classic literature is about how people are capable to alter their life circumstances and conditioning. There might be a legitimate question of which particular CBT is more efficient, but there is no question of whether or not it works. Smart people usually bootstraping individual CBTs for themselves. Some, like Hermann Hesse, even wrote books about it.
        YngwieMalware 10y ago
        One of the many mistakes you've made in your string of bad posting is the assumption that all brains behave the same. Another mistake is being histrionic as hell. Maybe you could CBT some of that away by not posting.
    - willu 10y ago
      You mean the Jack Kerouac who ended up drinking himself to death? Perhaps the road trips did not cure all ails.
      - dschiptsov 10y ago
        Consider the magnitude change his character had undergo after he left mom's basement in New York. Kerouac himself was smart-enough to realize the dynamic and illusory nature of what we call "myself" (it was one of his main themes - unfolding of Cody and himself and of everything else) and that his alcoholism was the cause of his suffering. Why he didn't choose to fight it is another question. Perhaps, it was too late.

s_m_t 10y ago

This may very well be true, however, some people may still need help in the form of drugs to get them to a point where they can actually begin to make those changes.

pfarnsworth 10y ago

This is, of course, bullshit. I know two friends who acquired their depression genetically from their parents, and it manifested itself in them, and their siblings as well. At times they were extremely suicidal, and they described it as waking up and wanting to kill themselves every day, and not killing themselves was the biggest struggle they ever faced.

dschiptsov 10y ago
Genetic depression is really bullshit.) These "genes" would have been wiped out in a few generations. Genetics does not work that way.) Behavior straight out of genes, without social and environmental conditioning is bullshit. Behavior is product of training and acquired habits, guided by hard-wired instincts and emotions. There might be some predispositions - mutations which introduce minor changes (there cannot be major ones - changes must be small and gradual enough for the organizm to cope with) into some locations, which affect sensitivity to certain chemical compound (hormones, neurotransmitters) or minor structural changes which affects metabolism, but all this could be easily compensated by behavioral patterns on a higher level. Animals and people with sudden traumas leading to disability are doing this, but way too sophisticated, self-obsessed hipstes and couch potatoes cannot.
- berntb 10y ago
  I think most people reading here are aware of the genotype/phenotype distinction, so you don't need to make that point. As for the argument that a tendency like this would disappear in a few generations -- we're in a very different environment compared to history (see previous paragraph, in fact...)
- mabbo 10y ago
  Right, just like all other diseases. If any disease had a genetic origin, it would be wiped out within a few generations. Oh, except for all of these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genetic_disorders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genetic_disorders There are even lots of diseases that provide strange benefits that protect the sufferer from other illnesses. Having half the genes for sickle-cell trait will give you strong resistance to malaria. Having both is a terrible illness. Huntington's Disease seems to provide resistance to certain types of cancers, but when you turn 35 or 40 your life becomes a real nightmare. The point is that the purpose of genetics is not to promote healthy humans, it's to promote the reproduction of the group of genes in question. Genes will use all kinds of tricky methods to duplicate themselves, including all kinds of things that are awful for the person with them.

nefitty 10y ago

‘Researchers have found that CBT is roughly half as effective in treating depression as it used to be’ http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/jul/03/why-cbt-is-falling-out-of-favour-oliver-burkeman http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/jul/03/why-cbt-...

dschiptsov 10y ago
Why should I take a tabloid story that refers to a study which is unaware of profound cross-cultural differences in what depression is seriously? Like obesity, it is an acquired, habitual disorder due to certain "standards of life", overconsumption and resulting pathological behavioral patterns, similar in nature to autoimmune diseases, BTW. It is due to major environmental, not genetic factors.
- nefitty 10y ago
  Then, like any culturally-mediated behavior, it changes over time. People responded to CBT before, now they respond less. Chemical interventions sometimes work. I'm confused by your stubbornness on this point.