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Tesla crash after flying 82 feet in the air shows importance of a crumple zone
- userbinator 11y agoI find it more amazing the side windows are still intact, and the roof is also amazingly clean for a vehicle that is said to have rolled over "at least once" in a field.
- Pxtl 11y agoA notoriously heavy and bottom-heavy vehicle at that. I would not want to be caught upside down in one of those, knowing that there is a tonne or so of batteries trying to crush me.
- toomuchtodo 11y ago1. You wouldn't be caught upside down in it. Tesla was unable to flip the Model X in testing [1] (I assume the Model S is even harder to flip). The advantages of having an extremely low center of gravity due to the battery pack (coming in at 1323 lbs). 2. Reinforced pillars. Their strength is such that they damaged the device used to test roof failures [2] (I believe the force the roof was subjected to was equivalent to 5 Model S' atop the test vehicle). I'm confident that in the extremely unlikely event the vehicle was upside down, you would walk away from the vehicle, roof intact. 3. A tweet describing the safety of Tesla vehicles: https://twitter.com/NickatFP/status/706845770486407168 https://twitter.com/NickatFP/status/706845770486407168 [1] http://electrek.co/2016/03/07/tesla-flip-model-x-crash-tests-safety/ http://electrek.co/2016/03/07/tesla-flip-model-x-crash-tests... [2] http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/videos/a5238/watch-the-tesla-model-s-break-the-nhtsa-crash-test-scale/ http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/videos/a5238/watch-the-...
- userbinator 11y agoI believe the force the roof was subjected to was equivalent to 5 Model S' atop the test vehicle Tesla should start doing ads like this: http://www.curbsideclassic.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/1971-market-for-a-hardtop-ad.jpg http://www.curbsideclassic.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/19... https://d37nk263jfz2p8.cloudfront.net/image/1/700/0/uploads/posts/2015/09/ebf4e54f-7b56-4989-8a82-300f16793680.jpg https://d37nk263jfz2p8.cloudfront.net/image/1/700/0/uploads/...
- m4x 11y ago> You wouldn't be caught upside down in it. Tesla was unable to flip the Model X in testing That doesn't mean you "wouldn't be caught upside down in it" unless it can literally flip itself back over after every possible roll. I would still prefer to crash a Model S than any other car
- b3550943 11y ago>Of note, during validation of Model S roof crush protection at an independent commercial facility, the testing machine failed at just above 4 g's. While the exact number is uncertain due to Model S breaking the testing machine, what this means is that at least four additional fully loaded Model S vehicles could be placed on top of an owner's car without the roof caving in. This is achieved primarily through a center (B) pillar reinforcement attached via aerospace grade bolts. https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/tesla-model-s-achieves-best-safety-rating-any-car-ever-tested https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/tesla-model-s-achieves-best... Please spread more FUD.
- waitwhatt 11y agoI'd be more concerned about them catching fire and spurting fire at me while I lay there stuck.
- colanderman 11y agoI rolled over at 65 MPH in a Nissan Versa and it almost looked saleable afterward. Mostly front-end damage.
- Amezarak 11y agoI did the same (about 60mph, clipped a tree in a curve and rolled) in a Honda Fit, and left myself upside down. None of the windows broke, the doors still opened and closed, and the car looked almost fine except for some damage on the front end. Of course it wasn't actually fine, but still, I was impressed. I don't think this is really unique to Teslas at all.
- james_pm 11y agoCrumple zones are all good, but why would you put that kind of power in the hands of an inexperienced and risk-happy 18-year-old driver? Looks like this was a P model (red calipers) which also means it has Ludicrous mode. Perhaps Tesla could offer some innovation in the form of a de-tuned mode that triggers in the absence of a certain set of keys or pin entry.
- hartator 11y agoYou have to start driving sometimes anyway, but yeah probabaly not a +$100k car.
- CapitalistCartr 11y agoA minivan for two years. They're safe. Then, after a couple years and their first crash, they can move up. But rich parents often aren't willing to "deprive" their children.
- r00fus 11y agoMy parents gave me a station wagon but otherwise completely agree.
- mrich 11y agoOut of curiosity, why are minivans safe?
- Gracana 11y agoI don't know if there's anything inherent in their design that makes them particularly safe, but they're marketed and used as children-carriers, so safety is one of their most important features.
- darkr 11y ago..or tell them if they want a car then go get a part time job and buy one. My first car cost my £50 (and £1100 to insure..). As it was 20 year old heap of junk, every other month something would break, and I'd have to look up how to fix it and then go down to the scrap yard with a socket set, £20 in my pocket and pull that part off a scrapped car. I learnt how to fix cars and I never had a crash because I knew it would mean certain death in that danger machine.
- Overtonwindow 11y agoMy 1998 Escort Zx2 had a gap between the bumper and the engine of about a foot that came in handy during a read ending. I think crumble zones of empty plastic are a great idea, and wish they'd install more of those on cars. It dissipates energy and potentially saves the car from what would otherwise be a car-destroying accident.
- WWLink 11y agoJeep Wrangler bumpers, lol. Also, the front ends on Chrysler 300s, Chargers, and Challengers have an enormous amount of empty space if you have a v6 model. XD
- rfeather 11y agoI can attest to the other side of that. My 2000 Cavalier was totalled after I rear ended someone at < 20 MPH. Apparently all of the impact went straight into the radiator. However, in my subsequent two cars I was rear ended and in both cases, while the cars were pretty ugly, they were driveable.
- avar 11y agoI suppose it doesn't matter much in practice because few things have the density of an engine block, but I wonder if the Tesla is crash tested with luggage in the frunk, or always with it empty. People are going to be putting stuff into the frunk, even stuff that may be really solid and pointy and likely to breach into the cabin in the event of a crash. Is it especially armored to deal with those situations? Or should Tesla owners generally keep it empty if they're concerned with safety?
- jasonjei 11y agoI'm interested to know the answer to this question. Is it safe to store things in the frunk? I actually keep quite a bit of stuff in my frunk (extra motorcycle helmets since I don't have much space in my condo and I have a shared condo garage space in SF).
- PhasmaFelis 11y agoI would imagine that anything that's mostly open air and not rigid enough to punch through the firewall (or whatever it's called on a Tesla) would be harmless at worst.
- jsolson 11y ago> People are going to be putting stuff into the frunk, even stuff that may be really solid and pointy and likely to breach into the cabin in the event of a crash. Others may have different practices, but for my wife and I we put very little there. The trunk is quite spacious. We keep a small emergency kit and an autosock[0] in the frunk but otherwise it's generally empty. On the rare occasions when we've used it on road trips the geometry has always made it most convenient to fill the frunk with winter coats and other soft goods that pack well into arbitrarily shaped spaces. [0]: http://autosock.us/ http://autosock.us/
- lancefisher 11y agoHave you used the autosock? How well did it work? Looks like a nice alternative to chains.
- dghughes 11y agoThe frunk fell off. Sorry.
- chx 11y agoCrumple zones even in much crappier cars are a blessing. My brother was once not given the right of way while he was driving a VW Polo (OK, Skoda Fabia, same car). The front of the car after looked like that Tesla but he could kick the door open (it was a little stuck) and get out. It's literally life and death. If Tesla is even better, I hope the next time a family member gets in an accident it'll be in a Tesla. That sentence probably sells cars.
- ivraatiems 11y agoCrumple zones tend to be built to safety standards regardless of the car's fanciness. AFAIK, even cheapo modern cars have immensely advanced safety features.
- chx 11y agoThis was close to 20 years now, how time flies... but yeah.
- Friedduck 11y agoSkip the article. Domain redirected me to a scam site (recognized I'm on Verizon, so it may not redirect everyone.)
- aidos 11y agoIt's with some irony that the ads I see on that page are for Vauxhall. I can't zoom in because I'm on a mobile but the final picture looks like it has the vehicle off in the distance. If so, I can't believe how far off the road it is - it must have really been moving at the time. Does it have telemetry data they can use post accident to figure out speeds and things?
- mschuster91 11y ago> Does it have telemetry data they can use post accident to figure out speeds and things? I would be surprised if not. The problem is that unlike years ago, the cops can now use the data of your own car to screw you over for speeding, improper turns, running red lights... and insurances already offer heavy discounts to those who let themselves be data mined for every meter they drive. Hello 1984.
- karyon 11y agocould you expand on in how far this is a problem? i must say i'm glad there's finally no way of talking out of it, if the data says you did it wrong, then you most likely did it wrong and the cops should make you pay money or jail time, shouldn't they? no matter whose data it was. even if there is something like a chilling effect, if it prevents people from speeding and running red lights, that sounds pretty cool to me. insurances are another matter. although we probably disagree over that as well, it's certainly (even) more debatable.
- Hondor 11y agoI agree. Traffic offenses are often the reasons accidents happen. I bet if that girl knew the cops were monitoring her speed and she was guaranteed to get fined for speeding, then she wouldn't have been speeding.
- dsfyu404ed 11y agoTell that to the Google fleet...
- krschultz 11y agoNot to be taken as a knock on Tesla, but from snowboarding I've learned the pain is not in the distance you fly, but the sudden stop at the end. Tumbling across an empty field is about the best case scenario. An unfortunately placed tree would be fatal at half that speed.
- Rapzid 11y agoYes, I wonder if the front end "crumpled" or merely fell apart. Was there a front end impact?
- ams6110 11y agoExactly my question: what did it hit? It's sitting in a flat dirt field. Maybe it nose-dived into the ground? But I didn't even really see evidence of that from the photos.
- rtnyftxx 11y agoshe didnt caught the curve then the car rolled over. Position https://www.google.de/maps/place/47%C2%B058'12.1%22N+11%C2%B026'41.1%22E/@47.9700384,11.4426992,1153m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d47.970035!4d11.444762?hl=de https://www.google.de/maps/place/47%C2%B058'12.1%22N+11%C2%B... cars direction north east to the yellow street 11 this dead outlet https://electrek.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/tesla-crash-ramp-germany.jpg?w=590&h=393 https://electrek.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/tesla-crash-ram... is this here https://www.google.de/maps/place/47%C2%B058'12.5%22N+11%C2%B026'42.5%22E/@47.97014,11.442942,981m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d47.97014!4d11.445136?hl=de https://www.google.de/maps/place/47%C2%B058'12.5%22N+11%C2%B...
- egeozcan 11y agoIs it my brain playing games or do I really see misplaced tire tracks on Google Maps?
- krschultz 11y ago
- coin 11y ago-1 for disabling zoom on mobile devices
- rtnyftxx 11y agothe car has so much software on board but isnt it personalized so that when my daughter is driving the car she cant get faster that e.g. 30mph? Or would this be to obvious?
- dba7dba 11y agoNo product manager can plan for such lack of discretion.
- jzwinck 11y agoActually they did: http://www.teslarati.com/depth-look-valet-mode-tesla-model-s/ http://www.teslarati.com/depth-look-valet-mode-tesla-model-s... - 70 MPH limiter and also acceleration limiter.
- gambiting 11y agoI think the problem here is not with the car, but with the fact that you can't trust your daughter to be a responsible driver - which means she shouldn't be on the road in the first place.
- lancefisher 11y agoIt looks like it flipped end over end with the front taking most of the impact, then the rear being crushed on the flip. The cabin must be extremely solid since the windows are still intact.
- tyre 11y agoMore importantly, this crash shows the importance of getting humans, especially young "adults", out from behind the wheel of a 5000 vehicle.
- toomanybeersies 11y agoOr it shows that irresponsible reckless driving is generally a poor idea.
- eru 11y agoAnd computers will be much better at driving reckful all the time than humans who have their moments of inattention.
- samch 11y agoHaving been in a couple of rough accidents in my life, I thought it was pretty stunning that the frame of the passenger compartment was durable enough that the occupants were simply able to open the doors to get out. From what I've been witness to, often the frame and doors bend enough in a big wreck to make it difficult to exit the vehicle. The photos showing the front two doors open with all of the glass intact are quite impressive.
- userbinator 11y agoThis is apparently not uncommon for Volvos either: http://www.car-accidents.com/pages/accident_story/11-11-04.html http://www.car-accidents.com/pages/accident_story/11-11-04.h...
- dclowd9901 11y agoVolvo pillars are apparently so strong that emergency crews have to carry special equipment to cut them if needed: http://www.fullerroadfire.com/TrainingAndEducation/UniversityOfExtrication/UniversityOfExtricationAll.pdf http://www.fullerroadfire.com/TrainingAndEducation/Universit...
- X-Istence 11y agoInteresting, here is an older article that shows the same is true for Subaru's: http://moojohn.com/subaru/extract.pdf http://moojohn.com/subaru/extract.pdf
- userbinator 11y agoThat extra surprise stub of rebar welded into the middle is funny, it was probably a quick "hack" to pass some test that turned out cheaper than redesigning the whole thing.
- thevibesman 11y agoYeah, that's one of many examples of how well Volvos stand up in crashes. Related: http://www.volvosavedmylife.com/ http://www.volvosavedmylife.com/
- Colin_M 11y ago"SpaceX successfully recovers teens after launch"
- Frenchgeek 11y agoElectric rockets still have a long way to go...
- qb45 11y agoThere is actually a thing called ion thrusters, which use propellant only as reactive mass and consume electricity for energy, but they are too weak for use in Earth-launched rockets.
- KhalilK 11y agoWhat are the chances of one of them being called "Jebediah".
- frik 11y agoMore interesting would be a crash against a tree or a concrete pillar - then one could argue if the crumble zone of a Tesla S is better compared to a traditional superior class Volvo or Mercedes with a front motor. Ignoring the videos of certificated crash test, the Tesla S doesn't look that special: https://www.youtube.com/results?q=tesla%20crash https://www.youtube.com/results?q=tesla%20crash and even in certificated tests it isn't in the top range: http://www.euroncap.com http://www.euroncap.com
- TwoBit 11y agoThe European tests include other things unrelated to a car's front crash results, and even include things unrelated to the car itself, such as potential damage to pedestrians.
- frik 11y agoEach result is shown separately, how about looking at the crash results score and read the detailed information. Your comment makes no sense. Anyway, it's better to watch real world videos too, how those cars perform in real crashes - as several car manufacturers designed their cars especially for common crash tests which mean little in real world crashes, if you don't hit the other object in the same angle.
- eru 11y ago> [...] and even include things unrelated to the car itself, such as potential damage to pedestrians. Why is that unrelated to the car? People are people and worth protecting, no matter whether they sit in the car or outside.
- thevibesman 11y ago> More interesting would be a crash against a tree or a concrete pillar - then one could argue if the crumble zone of a Tesla S is better compared to a traditional superior class Volvo or Mercedes with a front motor. It doesn't really mean anything, but as someone who has been in a bad crash into a concrete barrier in a Volvo (all four doors able to open and everyone walked away); comparing how that front-end looked to the Tesla, I got the feeling the Tesla would do well. > the Tesla S doesn't look that special As someone who always drove Volvos when I owned a car, and knowing---as some in this thread have pointed out---that some cars don't fair as well in accidents, to me this article didn't point out that the Tesla S is "special" but I was glad to see it is in the class of cars where you can crunch the front end and have an intact cabin. Makes me feel better about my feeling that if I ever buy a car again it might be a Tesla not a Volvo.
- ascorbic 11y agoNot quite on topic, but this headline is a good example of false precision in converted units. Did they precisely measure it to the foot? Of course they didn't. The article makes it clear it's 25 metres, which is probably an estimate within 5-10 metres. 80 feet would have been a more helpful conversion.
- cbd1984 11y ago"Hey, 98.6, it's good to have you back again... " One of the best-known numbers in biology came about due to a similar confusion over significant figures: > The first systematic measurements of human body temperature were performed by the German physician Carl Wunderlich. In 1861 he measured the temperatures of one million healthy individuals (a sample size that seems too large to be believed). The average value was reported as 37 degrees celsius. When converted this value becomes 98.6 degreed fahrenheit. So what's the problem? Wunderlich's value has only two significant figures while the converted value has three. The last digit (the "point six" at the end) should be regarded with great suspicion. Wunderlich's converted value should really be stated as "ninety eight point something" if one is being honest. Actually, if one is being honest and respecting the usual rules, it should be stated as 99°F; that is, rounded to two significant figures. (And, of course, we're not that simple: Core body temperature rises and falls naturally due to a number of factors even when we're completely healthy, so any single number as "the" healthy body temperature is, strictly, incorrect.) http://hypertextbook.com/facts/LenaWong.shtml http://hypertextbook.com/facts/LenaWong.shtml
- pauljohncleary 11y ago> Wunderlich's converted value should really be stated as "ninety eight point something" if one is being honest. or we could, you know, agree on a standard and just use that...
- scotchmi_st 11y agoOr you could, you know, use Celsius like the rest of the world... ;)
- roflchoppa 11y agoYeah every time I get into my car from 1972 I think, " I'd o hit something this steering rack is going into my face"
- gozur88 11y agoOr worse. Look up "flail chest" sometime. You really should think about finding something else, or at least a newer steering wheel.
- derFunk 11y agoFirst thing you should do with an Old-timer like this is replacing the original steering rack with a collapsible one, because like you said, it would perforate your head or torso on a front crash.
- userbinator 11y agoA car from 1972 should have that already. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steering_wheel#Passenger_cars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steering_wheel#Passenger_cars "In 1968, United States regulations (FMVSS Standard No. 204) were implemented concerning the acceptable rearward movement of the steering wheel in case of crash.[13] Collapsible steering columns were required to meet that standard."
- reitanqild 11y agoTangentially related but the comments are the best part IMO: > Anton Korn 2 days ago > I believe that there should be some sort of a software based limit on the maximum acceleration for new or unexperienced drivers. > No 18 year old should be given the option to drive a supercar. it is just too dangerous. >> Kerry Manning > Anton Korn 2 days ago >> I believe that the software has been around for quite a while. It is an advanced neural network commonly referred to as "a parent". :) >>> Going Knightly > Kerry Manning a day ago >>> Said software, unfortunately, only controls the vehicle as long as the drivers are within observational range. Once the vehicle leaves said range, the software is defunct and is running on the backup operating system "Wishful Thinking 2.0". >>>> Kerry Manning > Going Knightly a day ago >>>> Actually parenting is more about teaching your kids to do the responsible thing when nobody is watching. Without that it's not "parenting" it's "babysitting"
- chillacy 11y ago> Actually parenting is more about teaching your kids to do the responsible thing when nobody is watching. Without that it's not "parenting" it's "babysitting" Supervised learning with holdout data
- theothermkn 11y agoIt's like Kerry Manning is deliberately ignoring that 18-year-old brains aren't "finished" with respect to judgment and perceiving consequences. Manning's argument is blatantly circular, simply assuming that Korn is mistaken that there is an issue with late adolescent brains in order to assert that 'programming' late adolescent brains with parenting is the answer. For "the best part," that was really disappointing.
- sandworm101 11y ago(1) "It takes a lot of speed to flip a 5,000 lbs Model S with a low center of gravity." No it does not. Once a car is off road, on non-level ground or as in this case flying, it can roll at any speed. Push a Ferrari off a cliff and it might roll, flip and do somersaults no matter its centre of gravity. (2) That car shows a very bad sign: impacts on both front an rear. That means multiple impacts separated by some period of time. The problem with airbags is that they can only deploy once. Same too for crumple zones. What saved these kids was most likely the seatbelts, the only safety feature that remains functional after the initial impact. This is why I am against the new trend of shock-absorbing seatbelts with stitched expansion zones, what rock climbers might call screamers. They don't work twice. Forget the fancy safety features. The humble belt is more important than all of them put together. If you are going to roll a car, A good seat and a 5-point restraint is better than a hundred airbags.
- Cthulhu_ 11y agoWouldn't the shock-absorbers still at least retain someone after being used once? I gathered that regular seatbelts will have to be replaced after an accident anyway, they too stretch a little in an accident without retaining their stretchiness.
- y04nn 11y agoAt least shock-absorbing seatbelts can absorb the first (and probably stronger) shock and act as a normal seatbelt after that. So I don't understand what is the point to be against that.
- eru 11y agoTo absorb the first shock they have to lengthen. To act as a normal seatbelt afterwards again, they would have to shorten again to properly restrain you. They might not have enough time for that. (All just speculation.)
- tempestn 11y ago> Forget the fancy safety features. The humble belt is more important than all of them put together. Totally agree with the second sentence, but disagree with the first. It's not like these features are just thrown in for fun; there is research and testing behind them, and they do save lives. It's like that oft-misquoted statistic that you lose 50% of your body heat through your head. In reality that's only true if you cover the rest of your body with clothes, but leave your head bare. Obviously wearing clothes is going to keep you warmer than wearing a hat. But, if it's cold out, it does make sense to put a hat on too.
- lostmsu 11y agoIs it here because of that Tesla hipe? Tens of cars per year probably crumple just like this Model S, but there are (rightfully) no articles on HN or other IT web sites about that.
- mulcahey 11y agoThough of course we can't run an exact experiment, the premise is that the occupants would have seen much worse injuries had it been an average car without the saftey ratings of the Model S.
- ck2 11y agoTesla should go buy a regular gas car and drive it off that ramp at the same approximate speed and film it for publicity. I'm genuinely curious.
- benaston 11y agoThis is not journalism. It is a (likely paid for) ad for Tesla.
- ck2 11y agoYes, give an 18 year old a car that can accelerate that fast. Tesla should make a "teenage driving mode" the parent can set. So if there had been a huge heavy engine in the front, they probably would have been eating it with a front impact that hard?
- y04nn 11y agoThere already is a Valet Mode that limit the power and the maximum speed.
- flyinghamster 11y agoMy parents survived a head-on collision in a 1965 Corvair vs. an out-of-control Camaro, with minor injuries, thanks to the trunk being in front. The trunk was just about obliterated, but the passenger compartment was not compromised. Had they been in a Chevy Vega, Ford Pinto, or other '60s/'70s-era small car, they would have likely been maimed or killed. As far as I'm concerned, the second-generation Corvair was considerably safer than typical small cars of the era; the trunk was large, the gas tank was behind the front axle, and the first-generation Corvair's swing axle rear suspension was superseded by a fully-independent design. I'd feel safer even in a first-generation Corvair than in a classic VW Beetle. F*ck Nader.
- mlvljr 11y agoI knew, Musk would be the one who'd give us flying cars.
- ccvannorman 11y agoAnybody else notice that 82 feet ~= 25 meters, an approximate figure guessed by the original reporters who use the metric system? We simply translated the exact conversion of an approximate number into standard.