I cannot agree with deletionists, but it's still important that articles cite reputable sources. Unfortunately, those same reputable sources are by and large th

I cannot agree with deletionists, but it's still important that articles cite reputable sources. Unfortunately, those same reputable sources are by and large the same ones needed for notability. About a year ago, there was a mini-campaign on HN to save the article about Fravia. It narrowly avoided getting deleted, but look at it now - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fravia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fravia - it's still a terrible, rambling mess, with almost every citation leading to Fravia's own website. The information in the article may or may not be true, and we don't really have any way of knowing. It really seems like something has to reach a certain level of notability before it's possible to write an article of sufficient quality about it.