20 ms·

Homeless alone

254 points by wkoszek 10y ago

lowglow 10y ago
I recently sold everything I owned and started living out of my converted dodge caravan while I was prototyping what I wanted to build next. With an eye on my burn rate, I lived as cheaply as possible. I can tell you without a doubt that there is no natural system in place for homeless to get out of that rut, and it looks and feels dehumanizing. I wasn't completely broke but I couldn't keep affording rent as expensive as it was. I was able to shower at a gym, and worked out of Tech Shop on what I was trying to build. But it's hard -- like super hard to just be homeless. The social stigma associated with the word alone is hard for people to get beyond. I would often hear, "But you don't seem like the type to be homeless" and then they would slowly just distance themselves from talking to me. Super weird. I have been harassed by cops, you feel extremely transient and embarrassed just to be alive at times. Sleeping in a van sucks too. Street noises keep you up, cramped for space, etc. On the up side there is a contingent of tech people that are doing the same thing, so I had the pleasure of meeting some others like myself. I've never taken up the opportunity of food, shelter, or clothing offered by the city, because frankly I'm doing this on my own accord, so I can't speak to how that part of the system helps people get back on their feet. After this entire experience my heart breaks every time I see a fellow human having to resort to sleeping in the cold, wet, outdoors with no shelter and nothing but some cardboard and discarded newspapers to cover up with. I often wonder how close I could have come to being completely broken by this decision, and what coincidences led someone down this path. In the end it has helped me understand that we must all care more for one another, no matter what.
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  > I can tell you without a doubt that there is no natural system in place for homeless to get out of that rut What would such a system look like? EDIT: Totally serious question. To build something, you must first architect it.
  - lowglow 10y ago
    I'm not sure, I think about that a lot. I've noticed a lot of homeless do carry cell phones, so maybe more free chargers, free and ubiquitous wifi? But that's dumb tech me talking. I think a lot of barriers just come from the social stigma of actually being homeless. So thinking reasonably, showers, laundry, snacks or meals? A place where one could feel human and a part of the naturally accepted society again.
    - Kluny 10y ago
      I've heard of these places they have in Japan where you can pay a daily fee to get inside and use the facilities. They consist of: hot showers books, movies, wifi that you can use while you're there soup on tap vending machines with healthy options exercise machines Sounds like a brilliant idea that would benefit homeless people, those in marginal situations where it's not always safe to go home, and so-called "normals" all at once, thus serving everyone so as to prevent a stigma caused by their use.
  - k-mcgrady 10y ago
    Isn't one big issue for homeless people that they need an address when applying for jobs, bank accounts etc. and don't have one. Maybe a place to help them, not only find an apply to jobs, but to use as an address, shower before the interview etc.
    - lowglow 10y ago
      I don't think you need an address for a bank account from what I've seen and read places. I would just ask a friend to use their address anyways.
      - k-mcgrady 10y ago
        When I try to make purchases online with debit card they often use address for verification and if it's incorrect the purchase fails. Not 100% sure it's necessary just to have a bank account though you may be right.
- blackguardx 10y ago
  Why was living in San Francisco so important to getting your prototype built? Friendships, community, family? I wonder why more people don't choose to move to places like Detroit, Cleveland, and Buffalo where housing is dirt cheap. There aren't many jobs there, but if you are working for yourself it shouldn't really matter.
  - latortuga 10y ago
    In terms of major cities, San Francisco is among the best choices in terms of year-round weather. Snow, subzero temperatures, and associated clothing needs would definitely be much more problematic in your suggested cities.
    - lowglow 10y ago
      Yeah, even sleeping through the winter down in Palo Alto was a little tough with a sleeping bag + comforter.
      - ethanbond 10y ago
        Equivalently, being outside during the day in areas hotter than Palo Alto is ludicrously taxing in pretty much every way. The Bay is very kind to Homo sapiens, in terms of climate.
        abalashov 10y ago
        [Atlanta native here] Tell me about it, and don't forget to mention the humidity--a factor 5x more important than temperature per se, in my eyes. If I had to be in the hot sun, I'd take 100F in Phoenix over even 70F in Atlanta _any_ day.
        marincounty 10y ago
        It has some pretty severe microclimates. After a good rain, I have seen some pretty miserable homeless people. They are wet, and cold. They don't have the right camping equipment. In my little city, we lost three people this winter--that I know of. They died from hypothermia to pneumonia. I kinda knew one guy. He didn't like to tell people he was homeless. He was actually a former Programmer. He was instrumental in the developement of Word Star, but only got a wage, and a footnote in the program's history. When he did let his guard down, he would always say one thing over the years. "I just don't want to die on the streets, over a chest infection." I didn't see him for awhile. I thought he might have moved. I found out, one night, at Starbucks, he died on the streets in front of the police station, of a pneumonia. No service. Nothing. He was a only child. He's just gone. No drug use. No health problems prior to being homeless.
- k-mcgrady 10y ago
  I'm not trying to be rude when asking this but why would you choose to become homeless to prototype a business/product?? I've seen this come up several times on HN over the last few years and every time it blows my mind, especially when the person then goes on to talk about how difficult life is. I'm guessing you're in tech as you're on HN - why not keep your day job and work on your business from 7pm-3am every night. Save some money while you do this and then leave your job when you can afford to? It seems like a lot of tech folks have adopted the whole starving artist approach to starting a business when it is entirely unnecessary. I mean, even if you don't want to be an employee and want to focus on your product, move somewhere inexpensive, work freelance a few hours a day to support yourself. It just seems insane to me that anyone in this industry would choose to be homeless when they really don't have to. If a lot of people are making this choice voluntarily I'd say there's a major problem in the industry and how people view the path to a successful business.
  - lowglow 10y ago
    For me I've noticed a huge difference in creativity and authenticity in my products when I've devoted 100% of myself to it. There is a major problem in the industry. There is no one path to a successful business. I find my time is more valuable than my comfort. To each their own.
    - k-mcgrady 10y ago
      I can understand your point but you're not just giving up comfort - you're giving up something we all consider a basic necessity: shelter. I'm willing to bet the end result of your work, whether you do it your way, or do it part time, will be the same. I don't want to come off condescending but the attitude (and it's not unique to you, I've seen many other people with a similar attitude) seems like that of someone who has been brainwashed by the SF/SV startup culture mythology.
      - joslin01 10y ago
        His Dodge Caravan is shelter, which is pretty fancy shelter if you were from a poor village in Africa so I think he'll be alright. If he's not brainwashed by pain = gain, then I think what he's doing is really cool.
- padmanabhan01 10y ago
  >I recently sold everything I owned and started living out of my converted dodge caravan while I was prototyping what I wanted to build next. With an eye on my burn rate, I lived as cheaply as possible. I can tell you without a doubt that there is no natural system in place for homeless to get out of that rut, and it looks and feels dehumanizing. I think it's reasonable to assume that anyone who has enough skills to "build things" has enough skills to get an average software job. So, just curious, did you choose to build things and be homeless instead of getting a mundane software job and not be homeless?
  - lowglow 10y ago
    Correct. I had decided what I wanted to do with the time I have.
    - padmanabhan01 10y ago
      Aren't you hijacking the topic of homelessness here then? When people say homeless they don't mean someone who is homeless out of choice and can get out of it whenever they want to?
      - lowglow 10y ago
        I'm just relaying my experiences and what I've seen.
        e12e 10y ago
        I think your comment was informative. It kind of reminds me of "There, but for Fortune", by Phil Ochs: Show me an alley, show me a train Show me a hobo who sleeps out in the rain And I'll show you a young man with many reasons why And there but for fortune, may go you or I Especially in countries with (dare I say) primitive social security, going intentionally homeless could quickly become a permanent thing. A broken down car and a medical emergency, a family tragedy -- and coming back might suddenly become an insurmountable obstacle. Difficult to get a job without a place to stay, difficult to get a place to stay without money, difficult to get money without a job...
- Swizec 10y ago
  > The social stigma associated with the word alone is hard for people to get beyond. That's why you call yourself a digital nomad. Instead of people distancing themselves, you get people asking "Wooow how do you do that? I would love to do that? What's it like?". As a homeless person with a van, you probably have a more permanent base than most digital nomads. Or at least more than what I did when I was nomading more properly. (and yes, I do miss it)
- return0 10y ago
  > I've never taken up the opportunity of food, shelter, or clothing offered by the city, because frankly I'm doing this on my own accord, so I can't speak to how that part of the system helps people get back on their feet. I think you don't qualify as a homeless. You 're living in a van. There's a reason people prefer homes to a van. I can't fathom what is so pressing that makes you sleep in a van instead of moving to a much cheaper area.
  - Mz 10y ago
    I have never heard of a homeless services center that would not count sleeping in a van as homeless.
    - RyJones 10y ago
      When I was homeless, I lived in my car. I lived like a king compared to those actually sleeping rough. I frequently slept near/at the Burnside Project (PDX), and saw many far worse off. I had a water tight heated home that I moved whenever I wanted.
      - Mz 10y ago
        My father and ex husband were both career military. I never slept in a tent before I went homeless, but I had heard enough stories about keeping warm, dry, or whatever while out in the wilderness. I have never once slept on a sidewalk. I hike out to a patch of wilderness every single night. Where I currently sleep, there are deer and coyotes (a few minutes walk from a paved road). I blog about my experiences in part because I feel strongly that homelessness does not need to be as rough as it obviously is for so many people. Humans are food and got sleep well before modern housing was invented. I feel strongly that putting out information can go a long way towards lowering artificial barriers for homeless Americans and helping them maintain ties to society in a way that can make it easier for them to get back off the street.
        Mz 10y ago
        Missed the edit window. Obviously, that should say "Humans ate food..." not "Humans are food... Whoops!
- Razengan 10y ago
  > I have been harassed by cops, you feel extremely transient and embarrassed just to be alive at times. Sleeping in a van sucks too. Street noises keep you up, cramped for space, etc Would moving into the woods and "living off the land" have been an option? Is this even legally possible anymore in the United States? * Assuming you had solar-generated electricity and internet access.
  - chiph 10y ago
    You would need to own the land, or arrange a lease with the owner. Otherwise you're trespassing and that can result in arrest or being shot. I'm not saying that you can't do this (there are people living in remote portions of national parks), but there can be severe downsides. Like ending up like Christopher McCandless. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_McCandless https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_McCandless
    - mindslight 10y ago
      Living in a US national park (on land you don't own) would be illegal. Rangers also seem hyper-paranoid about remote areas being used for drug cultivation. I believe national forests have a technical time limit on how long you can stay there. Maybe BLM land?
      - chiph 10y ago
        Druggies could be a problem - there are stories of booby-traps and tripwires laid by the growers to protect their crops. So you certainly don't want to stumble across one. The only BLM land I personally know of is in Nevada/Arizona/New Mexico, and you can't really grow anything on it (it's desert). Looks like there's also land in eastern Oregon, Idaho, Utah, etc. so if you can tolerate cold winters... http://www.blm.gov/or/about/images/landsmap-large.gif http://www.blm.gov/or/about/images/landsmap-large.gif Even on BLM land, someone is eventually going to stop by and pay a visit to see what you're up to.
      - adrianpike 10y ago
        It's 16 days per campsite, and your sites have to be 5 miles apart. So every two weeks you pack up, move a few miles, and set camp back up again.
- dceddia 10y ago
  You seem open to questions so I'll ask :) I've always wondered -- if you're living in a van, and you don't like where you are (food is expensive, winter is coming, etc), why not just drive somewhere else? I don't even mean across the country. I mean just 4 hours north or south or east. There are cheaper places to be in California than SF, aren't there? It seems you could spend the year driving up and down the coast as cost/weather permits. And I don't mean daily. The fuel costs would get prohibitive at some point...
  - lowglow 10y ago
    I did. I worked in Redwood City, slept in Palo Alto (because it's legal to sleep in your car there). I tried to stay within the confines of the law as much as possible because I didn't need the extra hassle.
- whatever_dude 10y ago
  Thanks for sharing. Great food for thought.
- atarian 10y ago
  I've been seriously considering living out of a van with basic amenities like a propane stove and solar. I was pretty much set on doing this 100%, but one of my close friends talked me down to like 90%. Do you feel the impact to sleep/well-being is worth the freedom you get to work on your prototype?
  - wutbrodo 10y ago
    In case you're someone who usually sleeps pretty well, I would caution against talking poor quality of sleep too lightly. Forget the impact to your health, it can fuck up pretty much everything about your life, including your productivity (partly negating one of the reasons you'd be doing it in the first place).
- stcredzero 10y ago
  I wasn't completely broke but I couldn't keep affording rent as expensive as it was. I was able to shower at a gym, and worked out of Tech Shop on what I was trying to build. But it's hard -- like super hard to just be homeless. The social stigma associated with the word alone is hard for people to get beyond. I would often hear, "But you don't seem like the type to be homeless" and then they would slowly just distance themselves from talking to me. Super weird. I've been in such a position following an abusive employment/housing situation. What you say completely rings true. I think there's a partially neurologically wired category of "other" in our brains that is meant to make us super cautious of rootless individuals. Even in our nomadic hunter-gatherer days, we had good reason to be suspect of individuals who didn't have group membership. (Effectively a "home.")
  - kaeluka 10y ago
    You won't slap me in the face because you've got something to lose. A house, family, job, .. Someone homeless hasn't! edit: typo corrected!
    - stcredzero 10y ago
      No. Please believe me, you still have something to lose. (BTW, lose != loose)
      - kaeluka 10y ago
        I was not clear: I wanted to say that this is how I think the "reasoning" goes. Obviously, almost everyone has got something to lose.
  - jonnathanson 10y ago
    That, and I think a lot of it is also pattern matching. When we hear that someone is homeless, we compare that person to the mental image we have of the homeless people we've encountered on the streets. One of the great tragedies of our society is that we've allowed our mentally ill to slip through the cracks. Untreated schizophrenics and PTSD-suffering Vietnam veterans may or may not make up a significant percentage of the homeless we see -- but they're certainly the most memorable. They stand out. They ingrain, in passersby, a mental map of homeless people as "crazy," or "violent," or "dangerous." And so we start to believe that homeless people are broken somehow. Many people go a step further; they start to regard the homeless as less than human. These pattern matches are powerful blocks on empathy for many, many people.
- scythe 10y ago
  You could, at least, rent a place somewhere very cheap (Lodi?) and visit it only occasionally, while living out of your car in the Bay Area. It might ultimately be more sustainable, especially if you're open to having a "roommate" or two (who probably wouldn't mind you being gone a lot!). I spent a year paying $233/month for an attic room in Atlanta (and I lived there), so the opportunities exist.
- e40 10y ago
  A cautionary tale of what this can lead to: My brother's startup wasn't bring in much money and there was always the near promise it would. He went through all his savings and retirement funds and went close to $100k into CC debt. This was a swing of +$1m to -$70k. Yes, he had a problem (unacknowledged, btw) that was more dire than yours. Just be aware that this stuff can get out of control, if you let it. After getting to the -$70k state, he asked me and my parents for money to continue. We all refused because we knew that our money would be like the $1m+ he had already gone through. We told him to get a job. He refused. He couch surfed for a while. After 6+ months doing that he realized, because his family had abandoned him, he would have to get a job. He did ($155k/yr). He started a month ago. He's angry at the family and won't talk with us now. Ironically, he admitted that he wouldn't have the job now, which he needs, if we had given him money last year. However, that doesn't matter. He still maintains he did the right thing and we didn't support him. It's been a sad year for my parents and me. Actually, sad few years, since we all saw this coming (and tried to prevent it, but he only got angry at us for being "negative"). It was personally hard for me to let him go right to the brink of being on the street. I did it because giving him money would have drained my resources, and for no reason. His reality distortion field was so strong, he would not listen to anyone.
  - simonebrunozzi 10y ago
    Sorry to hear this. I love my Brother to death, and I can't imagine going through what you went through with yours. I hope things will get better.
  - everlost 10y ago
    Just out of curiosity, what was the idea behind his startup? I've been avoiding getting a job along the same lines, but can never imagine going into 100k debt for a startup obsession.
    - e40 10y ago
      I don't want to say too much, because I don't want him to find this, but it was a web service for a popular non-profit. It helped them manage costs of a certain nature. It was definitely a good idea, but the non-profit is notoriously stingy, and the sales cycle was very, very long. So far they've only sold one copy. I think the obsession he had scared off some investors, but mainly I think they didn't see a big exit. He had a partner, but the partner got a job years ago, because he had a wife and kids he needed to feed.
- Mz 10y ago
  I am on the street for health reasons, not to start a business (and getting pretty grumpy about it), but if you find it that hard cope, you might want to check out my blog: http://sandiegohomelesssurvivalguide.blogspot.com/ http://sandiegohomelesssurvivalguide.blogspot.com/ People do realize I am homeless if they see me often enough, but they don't realize it upon meeting me the first time. I am less open about it than I used to be, because fuck prejudice and what judgey, uncampassionate, unhelpful assholes the vast majority of people are. Best of luck.
  - chinathrow 10y ago
    Thanks for your link, checking it out now. How do you get by these days? How can we help?
    - Mz 10y ago
      I do freelance work, when I am well enough. I am developing a number of web projects. I left San Diego County about a year ago and moved someplace cheaper within California and things are still hard, but it has been some months since anyone hassled me for being homeless. That is partly because this is a nicer area, partly that I look more middle class than I used to. If you want to help, there is a tip jar on the site. (You can click on $1 and then enter any number you like.) Money is always useful. Promoting my work in some way so I get more traffic would also be appreciated. Thanks!
  - openasocket 10y ago
    I don't mean to pry, but what do you mean by "on the street for health reasons"? I'm trying to think of a medical condition that could be helped by being homeless, and am drawing a blank. Maybe I'm misunderstanding?
    - Mz 10y ago
      The super short version is that I was living in a crappy apartment with mold issues, among other things. I have a serious medical condition that makes me particularly sensitive to things like that. Sleeping in a tent among greenery has helped my health enormously. I am now well enough that getting back into housing would make sense. But it needs to be real estate I own and have control over, so I can rip out carpeting, or whatever, if necessary. It cannot be rental housing and it cannot be a trailer. So, it will be challenging to arrange.
- dzmien 10y ago
  Being homeless with a vehicle to live in is nothing like being homeless without one. I really don't even think it is the same thing. I've been homeless on a number of occasions (related to addiction, I am now in recovery), and I have done it with and without a vehicle. There is absolutely no comparison between having to sleep on the street and having a vehicle to sleep in, especially during the fall/winter in seasonal areas. I would absolutely live in a converted van if it meant saving money. Sadly, I don't have a van to convert ;-)
- louprado 10y ago
  It's the quality of sleep that is the biggest concern. Sleeping poorly affects your productivity, creativity, and your health. The social isolation is also bad for all the above since it will likely lead to depression. Seriously, once I rented someone's large closet in Phoenix for $100 a month when I needed to save money. I showered in the gym and stayed in my office all day. Even in the most expensive cities someone will take a "ghost roommate" for $500 a month; pennies compared to cost of a physical/mental health related disorder.
- lighttower 10y ago
  Yours, sir, is one of the most human statements I've read in recent years.
- LulzSect 10y ago
  http://i.imgur.com/WHWB4Kkh.jpg http://i.imgur.com/WHWB4Kkh.jpg Minutes ago
thesimon 10y ago
Wikipedia says you only get unemployment benefits for 6 months in the US, is that correct? Seems quite harsh.
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  Its dependent on each state, but that's close enough to average, yes.
  - Tharkun 10y ago
    What happens after that?
    - thesimon 10y ago
      Looks like there are no more state payments and you have to depend on charities, family or friends.
      - toomuchtodo 10y ago
        Correct. Or you become destitute/homeless.
      - refurb 10y ago
        What? No. You go on welfare. And get free healthcare through Medicaid. As much as people outside the US like to think it's some sort of heartless society, the US has a substantial safety net setup.
        dragonwriter 10y ago
        > You go on welfare. If you have children, you may qualify for whatever your states implementation of Temporary Assistance for Needy Family (TANF) is -- which has a work requirement. If not, your jurisdiction may have a "General Assistance" program, but these tend to be very small benefits, and often restricted in how long someone deemed "employable", whether or not they actually can find employment, can be on them (either in total, or within a given period; e.g., some jurisdictions have something like a 3-months in any 12-month period limit.) > As much as people outside the US like to think it's some sort of heartless society, the US has a substantial safety net setup. The US has an extraordinarily weak social safety net compared to most other developed countries.
ck2 10y ago
When I was homeless and living out of my old car, my biggest problem was police. Constantly hassling me. I have no idea how they would always find me, I think people were calling in me sleeping in my car (this was before smartphones). They would always insist on searching the car for drugs and I basically had to give in. Not that I ever had any but they would make a mess since all my possessions were in the car and they could care less about tossing everything. And yes, as many people say, getting out of the rut of being homeless is the hardest thing, it starts to completely change the way you think and everything becomes day-to-day survival.
aerovistae 10y ago
I find this pretty fascinating. Firstly because I'm overwhelmed with sympathy for this guy, and I stopped to ask why. I live in Chicago and I see the homeless every day, and I know it's a problem and I wish I could fix it but I don't know how, and giving a dollar to every person I pass would actually start to have a hefty toll ($20+/day or more, easily.) So since moving to the city I made it a blanket rule not to give hand-outs in that form. But because this guy keeps a blog, because he is articulate and just sounds like another guy, easily could be me, because he still has his voice, I'm almost tempted to send him a couple hundred dollars over paypal. I haven't yet, but the temptation is there. Just because I can hear his story instead of just see him sitting on a sidewalk. It makes it so much harder to walk by. I do wish I knew more about how it happened. I always wonder that. I usually think there must have been some bad choices made along the way. Not that anyone's free of bad choices. But, why did he instantly become homeless after his mother sold the house? Why didn't he have any savings at that age? Why didn't he have any old friends who would take him in to help him out? I know not everyone is so fortunate as to have those things, of course, but still I wonder how it happens.
- telesilla 10y ago
  Having a voice is what makes the author distinct in these kinds of stories - he can speak and therefore act for himself. Thus we believe that any charity provided would have result. A good concept for this is "subaltern" which refers to being "rendered without agency by social status". The author is not subaltern and therefore we have hope for him, he is not completely outside the social system we inhabit ourselves. So you could send him $100 and realistically have the expectation that this will have value, as opposed to giving $100 to a man on the street and having the expectation that it will only be a temporary reprieve, or even worsen the situation through short-term spending choices. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaltern_(postcolonialism) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaltern_(postcolonialism)
- mgkimsal 10y ago
  I don't know Neil well, but he did speak twice at my conference several years ago (2010 and 2012). In 2012, he was walking with a cane, and had had a stroke between those two times I met him. Still in good spirits, but was definitely a little physically slower. I'm pretty sure there's more to the back story that led up to this, and I've encouraged him to write more about this at some point when he's more stable. If I were to guess, based on the few points he's made in writing, there's some family rift going on, and I might also presume that he may have been paying for things for his mother that might have otherwise gone in to savings. He's been through a divorce, which can certainly have a financial toll on anyone, and I think it was a bit later in life, which may be harder to recover from. A late divorce, some health problems, trying to support a family member - all of that may quickly deplete someone's funds. As to the homeless part, I think there's a certain pride involved, and asking for help may be embarrassing, especially to have to involve friends. It may be that many of his local friends would be tied to his mother/family, and may not be as supportive as one might hope. I sent money to paypal, but it's frozen, and I'm wondering if I can reverse it and senf via GFM and he'll get access faster. Hrmmm....
chinathrow 10y ago
There is a GoFundMe page set-up for this guy - no idea how legit it is. Can anyone confirm? https://www.gofundme.com/NeilTortorella https://www.gofundme.com/NeilTortorella Edit: He's also on Twitter. https://twitter.com/ntortorella https://twitter.com/ntortorella
- mgkimsal 10y ago
  It's legit. They're working with Neil to get some GFM funds released ASAP. He had a paypal set up , and I donated, but Paypal has frozen his funds for 30 days (nice).
lasermike026 10y ago
Enough already. This society can provide Walden (by Henry David Thoreau) sized accommodations for all that need it. There is no reason for anyone to be homeless. People need work and healthcare. These are rights not a privileges.
- T2_t2 10y ago
  Except... some people choose to be homeless. There are two in this very thread (the first comment, and here: sandiegohomelesssurvivalguide.blogspot.com). It's unpleasant to say, but it's true. To achieve a goal of 100% home-d, we'd need some REALLY draconian measures, e.g. forcing people into homes they don't want and forcing people to take medication against their will. I, personally, am not for measures like that, for reasons this blog post lays out well: http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/04/27/book-review-albions-seed/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/04/27/book-review-albions-see... However, the goal to reduce homelessness to 0% for the vast majority in the set of people who WANT a home is one I can support - even better if that desire extends beyond white countries.
  - lasermike026 10y ago
    We can start by providing homes and medicine to people who need and want homes. We'll work on the hard cases later.
homido 10y ago
Can't practically anyone get a student loan? This will pay for schooling, rent and food. Use this to get a job and back on your feet, graduate and you can become a teacher. Drop out and you will be back on your feet. Why don't more homeless people do this? it's free money.
joeevans1000 10y ago
It's a bit stunning to some of the philosophical waxing in here, ruminations and curiosity about what bad choices were made. The guy had a stroke, which he states. It's so stunning that this isn't enough explanation for some, who wonder if he didn't save enough. Our culture is so far gone that a stroke isn't enough explanation for homelessness. To hell with needing reasons... he shouldn't have to provide them. I think the urge for reasons are just ways to determine in our minds we couldn't one day be in his shoes and/or remove the idea that perhaps we should help.
- jacalata 10y ago
  I think a better sign of being "so far gone" is when you find it totally blasé that a stroke can lead to homelessness.
  - nojvek 10y ago
    This. Even though my employer provides descent insurance I still end up paying quite a bit more out of pocket then I did in Australia or Canada. Having lived in many cities around the world, I can say if you're poor in the US, there aren't many options to get out of it. It could be said for many countries but US is the worlds largest economy. It's a solvable problem. It's heart breaking to hear stories of people choosing to die than go to the hospital because the bills will kill them.
smilingtom 10y ago
People actually fall for this? He made a long, sob-story blog post about how miserable he was being homeless and how he wishes he had more money so he could afford more nutritious food. And then people sent this guy over $40k? For no reason? I need to get into the sob-story business.
deleted 10y ago
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ilyaeck 10y ago
It's great that so many people are driven to help this guy: donate money, etc. But stories like this can/should to be leveraged to raise awareness and engage the society to solve this problem. In a country that prides itself on abundance and opportunities, homelessness is a disgrace to us all. Startup folks - looking for a real problem to solve? How about a system to help pool people like this out of misery?
wkoszek 10y ago
I appreciate everyone taking the time to read this post.
peter303 10y ago
There a gradation between intermittent homelessness and chronic homelessness. Intermittent is not that rare - I even experienced a bit of that my self at one time. Chronic may be due to more deep seated issues and hard to get out of. It sounds like you have the drive to eventually escape it.
known 10y ago
This is why I unconditionally support https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income_around_the_world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income_around_the_world
lovedj 10y ago
This is overwhelming.

254 points by wkoszek 10y ago

I recently sold everything I owned and started living out of my converted dodge caravan while I was prototyping what I wanted to build next. With an eye on my burn rate, I lived as cheaply as possible. I can tell you without a doubt that there is no natural system in place for homeless to get out of that rut, and it looks and feels dehumanizing. I wasn't completely broke but I couldn't keep affording rent as expensive as it was. I was able to shower at a gym, and worked out of Tech Shop on what I was trying to build. But it's hard -- like super hard to just be homeless. The social stigma associated with the word alone is hard for people to get beyond. I would often hear, "But you don't seem like the type to be homeless" and then they would slowly just distance themselves from talking to me. Super weird. I have been harassed by cops, you feel extremely transient and embarrassed just to be alive at times. Sleeping in a van sucks too. Street noises keep you up, cramped for space, etc. On the up side there is a contingent of tech people that are doing the same thing, so I had the pleasure of meeting some others like myself. I've never taken up the opportunity of food, shelter, or clothing offered by the city, because frankly I'm doing this on my own accord, so I can't speak to how that part of the system helps people get back on their feet. After this entire experience my heart breaks every time I see a fellow human having to resort to sleeping in the cold, wet, outdoors with no shelter and nothing but some cardboard and discarded newspapers to cover up with. I often wonder how close I could have come to being completely broken by this decision, and what coincidences led someone down this path. In the end it has helped me understand that we must all care more for one another, no matter what.

toomuchtodo 10y ago
> I can tell you without a doubt that there is no natural system in place for homeless to get out of that rut What would such a system look like? EDIT: Totally serious question. To build something, you must first architect it.
- lowglow 10y ago
  I'm not sure, I think about that a lot. I've noticed a lot of homeless do carry cell phones, so maybe more free chargers, free and ubiquitous wifi? But that's dumb tech me talking. I think a lot of barriers just come from the social stigma of actually being homeless. So thinking reasonably, showers, laundry, snacks or meals? A place where one could feel human and a part of the naturally accepted society again.
  - Kluny 10y ago
    I've heard of these places they have in Japan where you can pay a daily fee to get inside and use the facilities. They consist of: hot showers books, movies, wifi that you can use while you're there soup on tap vending machines with healthy options exercise machines Sounds like a brilliant idea that would benefit homeless people, those in marginal situations where it's not always safe to go home, and so-called "normals" all at once, thus serving everyone so as to prevent a stigma caused by their use.
- k-mcgrady 10y ago
  Isn't one big issue for homeless people that they need an address when applying for jobs, bank accounts etc. and don't have one. Maybe a place to help them, not only find an apply to jobs, but to use as an address, shower before the interview etc.
  - lowglow 10y ago
    I don't think you need an address for a bank account from what I've seen and read places. I would just ask a friend to use their address anyways.
    - k-mcgrady 10y ago
      When I try to make purchases online with debit card they often use address for verification and if it's incorrect the purchase fails. Not 100% sure it's necessary just to have a bank account though you may be right.
blackguardx 10y ago
Why was living in San Francisco so important to getting your prototype built? Friendships, community, family? I wonder why more people don't choose to move to places like Detroit, Cleveland, and Buffalo where housing is dirt cheap. There aren't many jobs there, but if you are working for yourself it shouldn't really matter.
- latortuga 10y ago
  In terms of major cities, San Francisco is among the best choices in terms of year-round weather. Snow, subzero temperatures, and associated clothing needs would definitely be much more problematic in your suggested cities.
  - lowglow 10y ago
    Yeah, even sleeping through the winter down in Palo Alto was a little tough with a sleeping bag + comforter.
    - ethanbond 10y ago
      Equivalently, being outside during the day in areas hotter than Palo Alto is ludicrously taxing in pretty much every way. The Bay is very kind to Homo sapiens, in terms of climate.
      - abalashov 10y ago
        [Atlanta native here] Tell me about it, and don't forget to mention the humidity--a factor 5x more important than temperature per se, in my eyes. If I had to be in the hot sun, I'd take 100F in Phoenix over even 70F in Atlanta _any_ day.
      - marincounty 10y ago
        It has some pretty severe microclimates. After a good rain, I have seen some pretty miserable homeless people. They are wet, and cold. They don't have the right camping equipment. In my little city, we lost three people this winter--that I know of. They died from hypothermia to pneumonia. I kinda knew one guy. He didn't like to tell people he was homeless. He was actually a former Programmer. He was instrumental in the developement of Word Star, but only got a wage, and a footnote in the program's history. When he did let his guard down, he would always say one thing over the years. "I just don't want to die on the streets, over a chest infection." I didn't see him for awhile. I thought he might have moved. I found out, one night, at Starbucks, he died on the streets in front of the police station, of a pneumonia. No service. Nothing. He was a only child. He's just gone. No drug use. No health problems prior to being homeless.
k-mcgrady 10y ago
I'm not trying to be rude when asking this but why would you choose to become homeless to prototype a business/product?? I've seen this come up several times on HN over the last few years and every time it blows my mind, especially when the person then goes on to talk about how difficult life is. I'm guessing you're in tech as you're on HN - why not keep your day job and work on your business from 7pm-3am every night. Save some money while you do this and then leave your job when you can afford to? It seems like a lot of tech folks have adopted the whole starving artist approach to starting a business when it is entirely unnecessary. I mean, even if you don't want to be an employee and want to focus on your product, move somewhere inexpensive, work freelance a few hours a day to support yourself. It just seems insane to me that anyone in this industry would choose to be homeless when they really don't have to. If a lot of people are making this choice voluntarily I'd say there's a major problem in the industry and how people view the path to a successful business.
- lowglow 10y ago
  For me I've noticed a huge difference in creativity and authenticity in my products when I've devoted 100% of myself to it. There is a major problem in the industry. There is no one path to a successful business. I find my time is more valuable than my comfort. To each their own.
  - k-mcgrady 10y ago
    I can understand your point but you're not just giving up comfort - you're giving up something we all consider a basic necessity: shelter. I'm willing to bet the end result of your work, whether you do it your way, or do it part time, will be the same. I don't want to come off condescending but the attitude (and it's not unique to you, I've seen many other people with a similar attitude) seems like that of someone who has been brainwashed by the SF/SV startup culture mythology.
    - joslin01 10y ago
      His Dodge Caravan is shelter, which is pretty fancy shelter if you were from a poor village in Africa so I think he'll be alright. If he's not brainwashed by pain = gain, then I think what he's doing is really cool.
padmanabhan01 10y ago
>I recently sold everything I owned and started living out of my converted dodge caravan while I was prototyping what I wanted to build next. With an eye on my burn rate, I lived as cheaply as possible. I can tell you without a doubt that there is no natural system in place for homeless to get out of that rut, and it looks and feels dehumanizing. I think it's reasonable to assume that anyone who has enough skills to "build things" has enough skills to get an average software job. So, just curious, did you choose to build things and be homeless instead of getting a mundane software job and not be homeless?
- lowglow 10y ago
  Correct. I had decided what I wanted to do with the time I have.
  - padmanabhan01 10y ago
    Aren't you hijacking the topic of homelessness here then? When people say homeless they don't mean someone who is homeless out of choice and can get out of it whenever they want to?
    - lowglow 10y ago
      I'm just relaying my experiences and what I've seen.
      - e12e 10y ago
        I think your comment was informative. It kind of reminds me of "There, but for Fortune", by Phil Ochs: Show me an alley, show me a train Show me a hobo who sleeps out in the rain And I'll show you a young man with many reasons why And there but for fortune, may go you or I Especially in countries with (dare I say) primitive social security, going intentionally homeless could quickly become a permanent thing. A broken down car and a medical emergency, a family tragedy -- and coming back might suddenly become an insurmountable obstacle. Difficult to get a job without a place to stay, difficult to get a place to stay without money, difficult to get money without a job...
Swizec 10y ago
> The social stigma associated with the word alone is hard for people to get beyond. That's why you call yourself a digital nomad. Instead of people distancing themselves, you get people asking "Wooow how do you do that? I would love to do that? What's it like?". As a homeless person with a van, you probably have a more permanent base than most digital nomads. Or at least more than what I did when I was nomading more properly. (and yes, I do miss it)
return0 10y ago
> I've never taken up the opportunity of food, shelter, or clothing offered by the city, because frankly I'm doing this on my own accord, so I can't speak to how that part of the system helps people get back on their feet. I think you don't qualify as a homeless. You 're living in a van. There's a reason people prefer homes to a van. I can't fathom what is so pressing that makes you sleep in a van instead of moving to a much cheaper area.
- Mz 10y ago
  I have never heard of a homeless services center that would not count sleeping in a van as homeless.
  - RyJones 10y ago
    When I was homeless, I lived in my car. I lived like a king compared to those actually sleeping rough. I frequently slept near/at the Burnside Project (PDX), and saw many far worse off. I had a water tight heated home that I moved whenever I wanted.
    - Mz 10y ago
      My father and ex husband were both career military. I never slept in a tent before I went homeless, but I had heard enough stories about keeping warm, dry, or whatever while out in the wilderness. I have never once slept on a sidewalk. I hike out to a patch of wilderness every single night. Where I currently sleep, there are deer and coyotes (a few minutes walk from a paved road). I blog about my experiences in part because I feel strongly that homelessness does not need to be as rough as it obviously is for so many people. Humans are food and got sleep well before modern housing was invented. I feel strongly that putting out information can go a long way towards lowering artificial barriers for homeless Americans and helping them maintain ties to society in a way that can make it easier for them to get back off the street.
      - Mz 10y ago
        Missed the edit window. Obviously, that should say "Humans ate food..." not "Humans are food... Whoops!
Razengan 10y ago
> I have been harassed by cops, you feel extremely transient and embarrassed just to be alive at times. Sleeping in a van sucks too. Street noises keep you up, cramped for space, etc Would moving into the woods and "living off the land" have been an option? Is this even legally possible anymore in the United States? * Assuming you had solar-generated electricity and internet access.
- chiph 10y ago
  You would need to own the land, or arrange a lease with the owner. Otherwise you're trespassing and that can result in arrest or being shot. I'm not saying that you can't do this (there are people living in remote portions of national parks), but there can be severe downsides. Like ending up like Christopher McCandless. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_McCandless https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_McCandless
  - mindslight 10y ago
    Living in a US national park (on land you don't own) would be illegal. Rangers also seem hyper-paranoid about remote areas being used for drug cultivation. I believe national forests have a technical time limit on how long you can stay there. Maybe BLM land?
    - chiph 10y ago
      Druggies could be a problem - there are stories of booby-traps and tripwires laid by the growers to protect their crops. So you certainly don't want to stumble across one. The only BLM land I personally know of is in Nevada/Arizona/New Mexico, and you can't really grow anything on it (it's desert). Looks like there's also land in eastern Oregon, Idaho, Utah, etc. so if you can tolerate cold winters... http://www.blm.gov/or/about/images/landsmap-large.gif http://www.blm.gov/or/about/images/landsmap-large.gif Even on BLM land, someone is eventually going to stop by and pay a visit to see what you're up to.
    - adrianpike 10y ago
      It's 16 days per campsite, and your sites have to be 5 miles apart. So every two weeks you pack up, move a few miles, and set camp back up again.
dceddia 10y ago
You seem open to questions so I'll ask :) I've always wondered -- if you're living in a van, and you don't like where you are (food is expensive, winter is coming, etc), why not just drive somewhere else? I don't even mean across the country. I mean just 4 hours north or south or east. There are cheaper places to be in California than SF, aren't there? It seems you could spend the year driving up and down the coast as cost/weather permits. And I don't mean daily. The fuel costs would get prohibitive at some point...
- lowglow 10y ago
  I did. I worked in Redwood City, slept in Palo Alto (because it's legal to sleep in your car there). I tried to stay within the confines of the law as much as possible because I didn't need the extra hassle.
whatever_dude 10y ago
Thanks for sharing. Great food for thought.
atarian 10y ago
I've been seriously considering living out of a van with basic amenities like a propane stove and solar. I was pretty much set on doing this 100%, but one of my close friends talked me down to like 90%. Do you feel the impact to sleep/well-being is worth the freedom you get to work on your prototype?
- wutbrodo 10y ago
  In case you're someone who usually sleeps pretty well, I would caution against talking poor quality of sleep too lightly. Forget the impact to your health, it can fuck up pretty much everything about your life, including your productivity (partly negating one of the reasons you'd be doing it in the first place).
stcredzero 10y ago
I wasn't completely broke but I couldn't keep affording rent as expensive as it was. I was able to shower at a gym, and worked out of Tech Shop on what I was trying to build. But it's hard -- like super hard to just be homeless. The social stigma associated with the word alone is hard for people to get beyond. I would often hear, "But you don't seem like the type to be homeless" and then they would slowly just distance themselves from talking to me. Super weird. I've been in such a position following an abusive employment/housing situation. What you say completely rings true. I think there's a partially neurologically wired category of "other" in our brains that is meant to make us super cautious of rootless individuals. Even in our nomadic hunter-gatherer days, we had good reason to be suspect of individuals who didn't have group membership. (Effectively a "home.")
- kaeluka 10y ago
  You won't slap me in the face because you've got something to lose. A house, family, job, .. Someone homeless hasn't! edit: typo corrected!
  - stcredzero 10y ago
    No. Please believe me, you still have something to lose. (BTW, lose != loose)
    - kaeluka 10y ago
      I was not clear: I wanted to say that this is how I think the "reasoning" goes. Obviously, almost everyone has got something to lose.
- jonnathanson 10y ago
  That, and I think a lot of it is also pattern matching. When we hear that someone is homeless, we compare that person to the mental image we have of the homeless people we've encountered on the streets. One of the great tragedies of our society is that we've allowed our mentally ill to slip through the cracks. Untreated schizophrenics and PTSD-suffering Vietnam veterans may or may not make up a significant percentage of the homeless we see -- but they're certainly the most memorable. They stand out. They ingrain, in passersby, a mental map of homeless people as "crazy," or "violent," or "dangerous." And so we start to believe that homeless people are broken somehow. Many people go a step further; they start to regard the homeless as less than human. These pattern matches are powerful blocks on empathy for many, many people.
scythe 10y ago
You could, at least, rent a place somewhere very cheap (Lodi?) and visit it only occasionally, while living out of your car in the Bay Area. It might ultimately be more sustainable, especially if you're open to having a "roommate" or two (who probably wouldn't mind you being gone a lot!). I spent a year paying $233/month for an attic room in Atlanta (and I lived there), so the opportunities exist.
e40 10y ago
A cautionary tale of what this can lead to: My brother's startup wasn't bring in much money and there was always the near promise it would. He went through all his savings and retirement funds and went close to $100k into CC debt. This was a swing of +$1m to -$70k. Yes, he had a problem (unacknowledged, btw) that was more dire than yours. Just be aware that this stuff can get out of control, if you let it. After getting to the -$70k state, he asked me and my parents for money to continue. We all refused because we knew that our money would be like the $1m+ he had already gone through. We told him to get a job. He refused. He couch surfed for a while. After 6+ months doing that he realized, because his family had abandoned him, he would have to get a job. He did ($155k/yr). He started a month ago. He's angry at the family and won't talk with us now. Ironically, he admitted that he wouldn't have the job now, which he needs, if we had given him money last year. However, that doesn't matter. He still maintains he did the right thing and we didn't support him. It's been a sad year for my parents and me. Actually, sad few years, since we all saw this coming (and tried to prevent it, but he only got angry at us for being "negative"). It was personally hard for me to let him go right to the brink of being on the street. I did it because giving him money would have drained my resources, and for no reason. His reality distortion field was so strong, he would not listen to anyone.
- simonebrunozzi 10y ago
  Sorry to hear this. I love my Brother to death, and I can't imagine going through what you went through with yours. I hope things will get better.
- everlost 10y ago
  Just out of curiosity, what was the idea behind his startup? I've been avoiding getting a job along the same lines, but can never imagine going into 100k debt for a startup obsession.
  - e40 10y ago
    I don't want to say too much, because I don't want him to find this, but it was a web service for a popular non-profit. It helped them manage costs of a certain nature. It was definitely a good idea, but the non-profit is notoriously stingy, and the sales cycle was very, very long. So far they've only sold one copy. I think the obsession he had scared off some investors, but mainly I think they didn't see a big exit. He had a partner, but the partner got a job years ago, because he had a wife and kids he needed to feed.
Mz 10y ago
I am on the street for health reasons, not to start a business (and getting pretty grumpy about it), but if you find it that hard cope, you might want to check out my blog: http://sandiegohomelesssurvivalguide.blogspot.com/ http://sandiegohomelesssurvivalguide.blogspot.com/ People do realize I am homeless if they see me often enough, but they don't realize it upon meeting me the first time. I am less open about it than I used to be, because fuck prejudice and what judgey, uncampassionate, unhelpful assholes the vast majority of people are. Best of luck.
- chinathrow 10y ago
  Thanks for your link, checking it out now. How do you get by these days? How can we help?
  - Mz 10y ago
    I do freelance work, when I am well enough. I am developing a number of web projects. I left San Diego County about a year ago and moved someplace cheaper within California and things are still hard, but it has been some months since anyone hassled me for being homeless. That is partly because this is a nicer area, partly that I look more middle class than I used to. If you want to help, there is a tip jar on the site. (You can click on $1 and then enter any number you like.) Money is always useful. Promoting my work in some way so I get more traffic would also be appreciated. Thanks!
- openasocket 10y ago
  I don't mean to pry, but what do you mean by "on the street for health reasons"? I'm trying to think of a medical condition that could be helped by being homeless, and am drawing a blank. Maybe I'm misunderstanding?
  - Mz 10y ago
    The super short version is that I was living in a crappy apartment with mold issues, among other things. I have a serious medical condition that makes me particularly sensitive to things like that. Sleeping in a tent among greenery has helped my health enormously. I am now well enough that getting back into housing would make sense. But it needs to be real estate I own and have control over, so I can rip out carpeting, or whatever, if necessary. It cannot be rental housing and it cannot be a trailer. So, it will be challenging to arrange.
dzmien 10y ago
Being homeless with a vehicle to live in is nothing like being homeless without one. I really don't even think it is the same thing. I've been homeless on a number of occasions (related to addiction, I am now in recovery), and I have done it with and without a vehicle. There is absolutely no comparison between having to sleep on the street and having a vehicle to sleep in, especially during the fall/winter in seasonal areas. I would absolutely live in a converted van if it meant saving money. Sadly, I don't have a van to convert ;-)
louprado 10y ago
It's the quality of sleep that is the biggest concern. Sleeping poorly affects your productivity, creativity, and your health. The social isolation is also bad for all the above since it will likely lead to depression. Seriously, once I rented someone's large closet in Phoenix for $100 a month when I needed to save money. I showered in the gym and stayed in my office all day. Even in the most expensive cities someone will take a "ghost roommate" for $500 a month; pennies compared to cost of a physical/mental health related disorder.
lighttower 10y ago
Yours, sir, is one of the most human statements I've read in recent years.
LulzSect 10y ago
http://i.imgur.com/WHWB4Kkh.jpg http://i.imgur.com/WHWB4Kkh.jpg Minutes ago

thesimon 10y ago

Wikipedia says you only get unemployment benefits for 6 months in the US, is that correct? Seems quite harsh.

toomuchtodo 10y ago
Its dependent on each state, but that's close enough to average, yes.
- Tharkun 10y ago
  What happens after that?
  - thesimon 10y ago
    Looks like there are no more state payments and you have to depend on charities, family or friends.
    - toomuchtodo 10y ago
      Correct. Or you become destitute/homeless.
    - refurb 10y ago
      What? No. You go on welfare. And get free healthcare through Medicaid. As much as people outside the US like to think it's some sort of heartless society, the US has a substantial safety net setup.
      - dragonwriter 10y ago
        > You go on welfare. If you have children, you may qualify for whatever your states implementation of Temporary Assistance for Needy Family (TANF) is -- which has a work requirement. If not, your jurisdiction may have a "General Assistance" program, but these tend to be very small benefits, and often restricted in how long someone deemed "employable", whether or not they actually can find employment, can be on them (either in total, or within a given period; e.g., some jurisdictions have something like a 3-months in any 12-month period limit.) > As much as people outside the US like to think it's some sort of heartless society, the US has a substantial safety net setup. The US has an extraordinarily weak social safety net compared to most other developed countries.

ck2 10y ago

When I was homeless and living out of my old car, my biggest problem was police. Constantly hassling me. I have no idea how they would always find me, I think people were calling in me sleeping in my car (this was before smartphones). They would always insist on searching the car for drugs and I basically had to give in. Not that I ever had any but they would make a mess since all my possessions were in the car and they could care less about tossing everything. And yes, as many people say, getting out of the rut of being homeless is the hardest thing, it starts to completely change the way you think and everything becomes day-to-day survival.

aerovistae 10y ago

I find this pretty fascinating. Firstly because I'm overwhelmed with sympathy for this guy, and I stopped to ask why. I live in Chicago and I see the homeless every day, and I know it's a problem and I wish I could fix it but I don't know how, and giving a dollar to every person I pass would actually start to have a hefty toll ($20+/day or more, easily.) So since moving to the city I made it a blanket rule not to give hand-outs in that form. But because this guy keeps a blog, because he is articulate and just sounds like another guy, easily could be me, because he still has his voice, I'm almost tempted to send him a couple hundred dollars over paypal. I haven't yet, but the temptation is there. Just because I can hear his story instead of just see him sitting on a sidewalk. It makes it so much harder to walk by. I do wish I knew more about how it happened. I always wonder that. I usually think there must have been some bad choices made along the way. Not that anyone's free of bad choices. But, why did he instantly become homeless after his mother sold the house? Why didn't he have any savings at that age? Why didn't he have any old friends who would take him in to help him out? I know not everyone is so fortunate as to have those things, of course, but still I wonder how it happens.

telesilla 10y ago
Having a voice is what makes the author distinct in these kinds of stories - he can speak and therefore act for himself. Thus we believe that any charity provided would have result. A good concept for this is "subaltern" which refers to being "rendered without agency by social status". The author is not subaltern and therefore we have hope for him, he is not completely outside the social system we inhabit ourselves. So you could send him $100 and realistically have the expectation that this will have value, as opposed to giving $100 to a man on the street and having the expectation that it will only be a temporary reprieve, or even worsen the situation through short-term spending choices. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaltern_(postcolonialism) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaltern_(postcolonialism)
mgkimsal 10y ago
I don't know Neil well, but he did speak twice at my conference several years ago (2010 and 2012). In 2012, he was walking with a cane, and had had a stroke between those two times I met him. Still in good spirits, but was definitely a little physically slower. I'm pretty sure there's more to the back story that led up to this, and I've encouraged him to write more about this at some point when he's more stable. If I were to guess, based on the few points he's made in writing, there's some family rift going on, and I might also presume that he may have been paying for things for his mother that might have otherwise gone in to savings. He's been through a divorce, which can certainly have a financial toll on anyone, and I think it was a bit later in life, which may be harder to recover from. A late divorce, some health problems, trying to support a family member - all of that may quickly deplete someone's funds. As to the homeless part, I think there's a certain pride involved, and asking for help may be embarrassing, especially to have to involve friends. It may be that many of his local friends would be tied to his mother/family, and may not be as supportive as one might hope. I sent money to paypal, but it's frozen, and I'm wondering if I can reverse it and senf via GFM and he'll get access faster. Hrmmm....

chinathrow 10y ago

There is a GoFundMe page set-up for this guy - no idea how legit it is. Can anyone confirm? https://www.gofundme.com/NeilTortorella https://www.gofundme.com/NeilTortorella Edit: He's also on Twitter. https://twitter.com/ntortorella https://twitter.com/ntortorella

mgkimsal 10y ago
It's legit. They're working with Neil to get some GFM funds released ASAP. He had a paypal set up , and I donated, but Paypal has frozen his funds for 30 days (nice).

lasermike026 10y ago

Enough already. This society can provide Walden (by Henry David Thoreau) sized accommodations for all that need it. There is no reason for anyone to be homeless. People need work and healthcare. These are rights not a privileges.

T2_t2 10y ago
Except... some people choose to be homeless. There are two in this very thread (the first comment, and here: sandiegohomelesssurvivalguide.blogspot.com). It's unpleasant to say, but it's true. To achieve a goal of 100% home-d, we'd need some REALLY draconian measures, e.g. forcing people into homes they don't want and forcing people to take medication against their will. I, personally, am not for measures like that, for reasons this blog post lays out well: http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/04/27/book-review-albions-seed/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/04/27/book-review-albions-see... However, the goal to reduce homelessness to 0% for the vast majority in the set of people who WANT a home is one I can support - even better if that desire extends beyond white countries.
- lasermike026 10y ago
  We can start by providing homes and medicine to people who need and want homes. We'll work on the hard cases later.

homido 10y ago

Can't practically anyone get a student loan? This will pay for schooling, rent and food. Use this to get a job and back on your feet, graduate and you can become a teacher. Drop out and you will be back on your feet. Why don't more homeless people do this? it's free money.

joeevans1000 10y ago

It's a bit stunning to some of the philosophical waxing in here, ruminations and curiosity about what bad choices were made. The guy had a stroke, which he states. It's so stunning that this isn't enough explanation for some, who wonder if he didn't save enough. Our culture is so far gone that a stroke isn't enough explanation for homelessness. To hell with needing reasons... he shouldn't have to provide them. I think the urge for reasons are just ways to determine in our minds we couldn't one day be in his shoes and/or remove the idea that perhaps we should help.

jacalata 10y ago
I think a better sign of being "so far gone" is when you find it totally blasé that a stroke can lead to homelessness.
- nojvek 10y ago
  This. Even though my employer provides descent insurance I still end up paying quite a bit more out of pocket then I did in Australia or Canada. Having lived in many cities around the world, I can say if you're poor in the US, there aren't many options to get out of it. It could be said for many countries but US is the worlds largest economy. It's a solvable problem. It's heart breaking to hear stories of people choosing to die than go to the hospital because the bills will kill them.

smilingtom 10y ago

People actually fall for this? He made a long, sob-story blog post about how miserable he was being homeless and how he wishes he had more money so he could afford more nutritious food. And then people sent this guy over $40k? For no reason? I need to get into the sob-story business.

deleted 10y ago

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ilyaeck 10y ago

It's great that so many people are driven to help this guy: donate money, etc. But stories like this can/should to be leveraged to raise awareness and engage the society to solve this problem. In a country that prides itself on abundance and opportunities, homelessness is a disgrace to us all. Startup folks - looking for a real problem to solve? How about a system to help pool people like this out of misery?

wkoszek 10y ago

I appreciate everyone taking the time to read this post.

peter303 10y ago

There a gradation between intermittent homelessness and chronic homelessness. Intermittent is not that rare - I even experienced a bit of that my self at one time. Chronic may be due to more deep seated issues and hard to get out of. It sounds like you have the drive to eventually escape it.

known 10y ago

This is why I unconditionally support https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income_around_the_world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income_around_the_world

lovedj 10y ago

This is overwhelming.