6 ms·

>But if you press F12 right now you'll find an amazing complex dialog box -- as a professional you just implicitly skip over that complexity. That observation

by jasode 11y ago

>But if you press F12 right now you'll find an amazing complex dialog box -- as a professional you just implicitly skip over that complexity. That observation is fascinating to me. Isn't it possible that we're judging it with adult eyes? To me, kids can filter out "ui complexity" that's not relevant to whatever exploration they are doing. Examples I think of: A microwave oven[1] might have 25 separate buttons on it but a 6-year old will know the 2 buttons to press to heat up the popcorn. Yes, the keypad complexity handles more advanced techniques of 2-stage cooking with different power levels etc but the child just ignores all of that. Or, how many of us grew up with those multi-component integrated stereo racks?[2] The front panel has all those buttons, sliders, knobs, and lights. And yet, a small child knows how to turn the FM knob to find his favorite radio station or rewind a cassette to replay a song. I also see video games[3] that 6 to 8 year olds play (even if the game wasn't intended for that younger age group). To me, the screenshots show a complex "dashboard" at the bottom of weapons or other status. (I'm not a Starcraft player and it all just looks complicated and confusing to me.) I think kids can look at the "complex" F12 screen the same way as microwave ovens, stereo receivers, and Starcraft screens: ignore the non-relevant UI elements and just type "alert ("hello");" [1]https://www.google.com/search?q=microwave+oven+keypad&source=lnms&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=microwave+oven+keypad&source... [2]https://www.google.com/search?q=integrated+stereo+rack+turntable+fm+tuner+cassette+deck&source=lnms&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=integrated+stereo+rack+turnt... [3]https://www.google.com/search?q=starcraft+ii+screenshot&source=lnms&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=starcraft+ii+screenshot&sour...

takno 11y ago
Does anybody at all know what more than 2 buttons do on their microwave? I thought they were mostly there for decoration
- todd8 11y ago
  The real problem is there is no ISO Standard for the appliance interfaces. Do you press power level first? Or time first. Is it Forth like, numbers then operation or Haskell like, Function then number. My refrigerator has illuminated bars indicating how cold it is set for. Even after downloading a pdf of the user guide I can't figure out if I'm setting it correctly. Placing a thermometer inside and using trial and error solved the problem (after a few frozen bags of spinach).
  - nsxwolf 11y ago
    And why does every single key press have to beep??
    - TeMPOraL 11y ago
      So that you know it worked. Even without looking at the small display that also usually changes in response. This is what I miss about older technology - especially dumbphones. The input always worked, and always worked with the same timing. I could operate my Sony Ericsson K800i without looking at the screen because my brain memorized the sequences of buttons and timings of common operations. Joystick press, up, up, press, down, press, wait about a second, press, done. Compare with Android phones which routinely ignore or misinterpret input ("that was a swipe, not a press!"), and hang at unpredictable moments for unpredictable amount of time (usually also ignoring input while hung).
      - nsxwolf 11y ago
        But I can't microwave something late at night without waking the whole house up!
        TeMPOraL 11y ago
        Your keys are actually louder than the microwave itself? :o. (At least every microwave I ever operated was pretty loud when cooking.)
        nsxwolf 11y ago
        The magnetron fan is white noise, but the beeps are shrill and piercing.
      - copperx 11y ago
        Input lag is the mortal sin of UI design, and it's ignored everywhere except on dedicated appliances (touch phone, microwave, fridge). Instant response is not a given. I wish OS designers treated the user as a real-time system with hard deadlines.
- glaberficken 11y ago
  True! And what about office printers? =) The 2 machine types I dislike interacting with the most.
PavlovsCat 11y ago
Yeah.. kids are tougher than we tend to give them credit for. I got an Amiga 500 when I was 10 years old, try playing Carrier Command, Elite or something like that without a manual and no clue what any of the words mean :) We sometimes didn't get very far, or missed out on many aspects, but there was still so much we did get out of it, so we kept hanging on, and with everything we understood, other things became easier to understand. I basically learned English that way, once I got a dictionary, since the coolest and best games and applications generally were in English. I didn't even notice I was learning you might say, I was too busy stacking boxes to get the banana :D
- Annatar 11y ago
  Ah, Carrier Command... I'm going to have to play that again. Powered on my Amiga 500 on my desk yesterday after almost two years, and to my amazement the battery kept the correct time. $c00000 - FAKE FAST LOCATED
  - PavlovsCat 11y ago
    My A4000T is also still working fine (last time I checked), but of course the HD died. One of these days I will get a CF or even SSD in there, maybe get a nice mouse and indulge myself to bits. http://aminet.net/ http://aminet.net/ is still here and nice things still get made, after all :) What miss most is using tools like ExoticRipper to grab music modules from memory after reset, to then play them at leisure and examine/change them with a tracker. Or playing around with the "Action Replay" modules I-III, that blew my mind too. Making a pause toggle by connect the mass of the case to a specific pin of the extension slot, haha, I was so scared doing it and so shocked it actually worked. I may not have learned so much I ended up still using (except today I prefer Renoise to all other DAW), but I sure learned a lot about learning, that is, wildly poking around to figure things out.

by jasode 11y ago

takno 11y ago

Does anybody at all know what more than 2 buttons do on their microwave? I thought they were mostly there for decoration

todd8 11y ago
The real problem is there is no ISO Standard for the appliance interfaces. Do you press power level first? Or time first. Is it Forth like, numbers then operation or Haskell like, Function then number. My refrigerator has illuminated bars indicating how cold it is set for. Even after downloading a pdf of the user guide I can't figure out if I'm setting it correctly. Placing a thermometer inside and using trial and error solved the problem (after a few frozen bags of spinach).
- nsxwolf 11y ago
  And why does every single key press have to beep??
  - TeMPOraL 11y ago
    So that you know it worked. Even without looking at the small display that also usually changes in response. This is what I miss about older technology - especially dumbphones. The input always worked, and always worked with the same timing. I could operate my Sony Ericsson K800i without looking at the screen because my brain memorized the sequences of buttons and timings of common operations. Joystick press, up, up, press, down, press, wait about a second, press, done. Compare with Android phones which routinely ignore or misinterpret input ("that was a swipe, not a press!"), and hang at unpredictable moments for unpredictable amount of time (usually also ignoring input while hung).
    - nsxwolf 11y ago
      But I can't microwave something late at night without waking the whole house up!
      - TeMPOraL 11y ago
        Your keys are actually louder than the microwave itself? :o. (At least every microwave I ever operated was pretty loud when cooking.)
        nsxwolf 11y ago
        The magnetron fan is white noise, but the beeps are shrill and piercing.
    - copperx 11y ago
      Input lag is the mortal sin of UI design, and it's ignored everywhere except on dedicated appliances (touch phone, microwave, fridge). Instant response is not a given. I wish OS designers treated the user as a real-time system with hard deadlines.
glaberficken 11y ago
True! And what about office printers? =) The 2 machine types I dislike interacting with the most.

PavlovsCat 11y ago

Yeah.. kids are tougher than we tend to give them credit for. I got an Amiga 500 when I was 10 years old, try playing Carrier Command, Elite or something like that without a manual and no clue what any of the words mean :) We sometimes didn't get very far, or missed out on many aspects, but there was still so much we did get out of it, so we kept hanging on, and with everything we understood, other things became easier to understand. I basically learned English that way, once I got a dictionary, since the coolest and best games and applications generally were in English. I didn't even notice I was learning you might say, I was too busy stacking boxes to get the banana :D

Annatar 11y ago
Ah, Carrier Command... I'm going to have to play that again. Powered on my Amiga 500 on my desk yesterday after almost two years, and to my amazement the battery kept the correct time. $c00000 - FAKE FAST LOCATED
- PavlovsCat 11y ago
  My A4000T is also still working fine (last time I checked), but of course the HD died. One of these days I will get a CF or even SSD in there, maybe get a nice mouse and indulge myself to bits. http://aminet.net/ http://aminet.net/ is still here and nice things still get made, after all :) What miss most is using tools like ExoticRipper to grab music modules from memory after reset, to then play them at leisure and examine/change them with a tracker. Or playing around with the "Action Replay" modules I-III, that blew my mind too. Making a pause toggle by connect the mass of the case to a specific pin of the extension slot, haha, I was so scared doing it and so shocked it actually worked. I may not have learned so much I ended up still using (except today I prefer Renoise to all other DAW), but I sure learned a lot about learning, that is, wildly poking around to figure things out.