5 ms·

> Barry Chang barely made it into the lobby when Apple’s security team surrounded and escorted him off the property. I had to read it again to make sure I'm no

by sourcd 10y ago

> Barry Chang barely made it into the lobby when Apple’s security team surrounded and escorted him off the property. I had to read it again to make sure I'm not making a mistake. Its unimaginable in some geographies. Evokes mixed feelings like : "cool, they can do that?" to "that's quite arrogant" Also reminds me of a video where Steve Jobs met the council. The mayor was delighted like a teenager, showing off his iPad to Steve, asking for free Wifi : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtuz5OmOh_M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtuz5OmOh_M ( t=19:54 )

dragontamer 10y ago
I agree. This is... worrisome behavior of a Mayor. > Getting local politicians to battle Apple is hard, Chang said. He recently proposed that Apple – which is building a massive new campus its own employees nicknamed the Death Star, or more favorably, The Spaceship – should give $100m to improve city infrastructure. To move on the proposal, Chang only needed to get a single vote ‘yes’ among the three other eligible council members. He failed to get that vote. What's his logic for this special Tax on Apple? It sounds like this guy is an anti-corporate loon, drinking too much Sanders juice or something. Sounds like the other council members are more rational.
- demarq 10y ago
  >What's his logic for this special Tax on Apple "You’re helping create the problems, so you have to help solve the problem" - Chang
  - dragontamer 10y ago
    Maybe if he described what these problems were, he's get my support. But considering that he can't even get the support of his own citizens at Town Hall meetings, nor the support of his fellow council members, methinks he's simply incompetent. And that the problems he describes are made up in his imagination. I can't imagine it to be too difficult to come up with a budget that says "We have to pay for X Million Dollars in the next year to fix the bridges and roads... or to upgrade our water pipes, or to deploy municipal gigabit-fiber. So here's a special +5% tax on all corporations in this Town" And if the fellow citizens and council members think the plan is worth the tax, then they'll probably agree with him. On the other hand, if citizens are balling up his agendas and throwing them out during meetings... there's clearly a problem here. And it isn't with Apple. Its with the Mayor.
    - demarq 10y ago
      > Maybe if he described what these problems were, he's get my support. I believe the city's infrastructure is struggling to cope with the city's growth. There was mentions of poor and congested roads. > But considering that he can't even get the support of his own citizens at Town Hall meetings, nor the support of his fellow council members, methinks he's simply incompetent. to be fair the article points out Apples image as a stumbling block to bring reform: 1) "In the case of Apple, people are so enamored with their iPhones that they can’t see the company. And year after year these companies are voted most respected, most trusted" - Matt Gardner 2) "he tried to organize a rally outside Apple. “But Apple has a pretty good image,” Chang said. “No one wanted to go" > So here's a special +5% tax on all corporations in this Town Chang has come up with such a proposal already, albeit it won't levy the extra tax on companies with less than a 100 employees. > a problem here. And it isn't with Apple. Its with the Mayor. That could be the case, though I'm leaning towards the Mayors side. This article doesn't go into much depth, and yield enough detail for me to come to a conclusion. I would do some background research but I honestly can't be bothered today. I have a feeling this isn't the last time we here of this, so i'll keep this in the back of my mind for future reference.
      - dragontamer 10y ago
        Don't mention Apple explicitly in a law. IE: Lets increase all corporate taxes by 3% in this city, to pay for a new road project. Here's the proposed road, etc. etc. I mean, yeah, its hard to get approval from your citizens to build new roads. My area (on the East Coast) had to appease a ton of environmentalist types who refused to build a highway over any wetlands or swamps (ie: cheap areas), and the NIMBY guys who were being threatened with eviction. But you propose a road (meet with engineers / architects, get some fancy drawings, write it up, build a website, etc.), you describe the costs (not just monetary, but also the houses you have to bulldoze, the "quiet" you have to disturb, meet with HOA communities to help gather support despite the costs), you raise a tax to pay for it, borrow some money with a bond and then it gets done. Its not easy, but its the freaking job of a Mayor. --------- Why would the Mayor EVER have to explicitly reference Apple through this process? Only a complete dunce would do that, as it reeks of favoritism. I'm reading through this entire piece, and its completely devoid of substance. The complaints are hilariously awful. I'm not sure if the Mayor is actually incompetent, or if the guardian is just awful at writing and completely focused on the wrong issues. I mean, cripes. I've NEVER heard of a necessary road project being scuttled because of money. Its almost always the NIMBY people (to be fair, getting evicted from your family home for 50 years gotta suck because a road is being built through your plot), or environmentalists (Protect the swamp! protect the forest! Protect the grasslands!) who seem to get in the way. And NIMBY vs Environmentalists is a hell of an issue to work out.
  - ams6110 10y ago
    (From near the end of the article) They (Apple) are already funding 18% of the city. I would argue that's dangerously undiversified already, and they want to increase the percentage? How much of the city services do they use? How much of the city expenses is their "fair" share?
- nihonde 10y ago
  The idea that Apple isn't the best thing that ever happened to Cupertino, California is hilarious.
  - jefurii 10y ago
    No, the idea that the city should have to provide roads, utilities, etc to a huge, rich corporation and get nothing back for their trouble is terrible.
    - Mvandenbergh 10y ago
      Of course that would be absurd and unfair. That's why property taxes exist, to pay for local infrastructure. Apple pays a lot of property taxes in Cupertino. Property taxes are based on the value of (and in some cases the type of use of) local property, that's reasonable because the costs incurred by the local government to build and maintain infrastructure is related to their use of land. His argument seems to be that because Apple makes a lot of money they should also pay more taxes, luckily for him that's the way the system works! Apple also pays corporation tax on their income. Unfortunately for him that tax is federal and not local so he doesn't get any more than any other local government does in federal contributions.
    - nihonde 10y ago
      Creating the world's most successful company in your backyard, attracting high-value talent from all over the world, making Cupertino a household name...is "giving nothing back"?
      - fit2rule 10y ago
        How do any of those things improve the lives of non-Apple citizens living in Cupertino?
        oarsinsync 10y ago
        The other industry that comes to the town off the back of it. The extra demand for goods and services.
pc86 10y ago
Why couldn't they? It's private property.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- sourcd 10y ago
  As I said, in some countries, you can't treat an on duty public/government "servant" like that.
  - justin66 10y ago
    If he'd been a police officer investigating a crime, or a fire marshall, that wouldn't fly. Doing it to the mayor is just rude.
    - ams6110 10y ago
      I would generally agree that someone like a mayor or governor deserves some default level of respect, but if he just showed up, unannounced, and "hoped to have a meeting" what did he really think would happen? Most people, even mayors, make appointments when they formally visit another organization in an official capacity. They don't just walk in and expect to be seen.
    - ptaipale 10y ago
      It depends. If the mayor has been rude or dishonest himself, it isn't. And as someome said, this does not quite pass the smell test.
    - imjk 10y ago
      But he wasn't even the mayor at the time he visited.
    - dragontamer 10y ago
      > If he'd been a police officer investigating a crime, Which means he'd have to have a warrant. If an Officer was "just investigating", they have to be invited or have a court order to get onto private property. In America anyway.
i386 10y ago
This doesn't pass the sniff test for me. It makes it sound like a conspiracy when reality is usually so very mundane. Companies don't do that unless people turn up randomly, start making crazy claims ("take me to Steve Jobs! I'm here regarding traffic congestion!") and start acting like an ass when they don't get what they want. Just pure speculation on my part.
spacecowboy_lon 10y ago
Try just walking into a telephone company like ATT or BT building unannounced and you will be escorted out even assuming you can get past the turnstiles, Exchanges (Central Offices) have even stricter security.

by sourcd 10y ago

dragontamer 10y ago

I agree. This is... worrisome behavior of a Mayor. > Getting local politicians to battle Apple is hard, Chang said. He recently proposed that Apple – which is building a massive new campus its own employees nicknamed the Death Star, or more favorably, The Spaceship – should give $100m to improve city infrastructure. To move on the proposal, Chang only needed to get a single vote ‘yes’ among the three other eligible council members. He failed to get that vote. What's his logic for this special Tax on Apple? It sounds like this guy is an anti-corporate loon, drinking too much Sanders juice or something. Sounds like the other council members are more rational.

demarq 10y ago
>What's his logic for this special Tax on Apple "You’re helping create the problems, so you have to help solve the problem" - Chang
- dragontamer 10y ago
  Maybe if he described what these problems were, he's get my support. But considering that he can't even get the support of his own citizens at Town Hall meetings, nor the support of his fellow council members, methinks he's simply incompetent. And that the problems he describes are made up in his imagination. I can't imagine it to be too difficult to come up with a budget that says "We have to pay for X Million Dollars in the next year to fix the bridges and roads... or to upgrade our water pipes, or to deploy municipal gigabit-fiber. So here's a special +5% tax on all corporations in this Town" And if the fellow citizens and council members think the plan is worth the tax, then they'll probably agree with him. On the other hand, if citizens are balling up his agendas and throwing them out during meetings... there's clearly a problem here. And it isn't with Apple. Its with the Mayor.
  - demarq 10y ago
    > Maybe if he described what these problems were, he's get my support. I believe the city's infrastructure is struggling to cope with the city's growth. There was mentions of poor and congested roads. > But considering that he can't even get the support of his own citizens at Town Hall meetings, nor the support of his fellow council members, methinks he's simply incompetent. to be fair the article points out Apples image as a stumbling block to bring reform: 1) "In the case of Apple, people are so enamored with their iPhones that they can’t see the company. And year after year these companies are voted most respected, most trusted" - Matt Gardner 2) "he tried to organize a rally outside Apple. “But Apple has a pretty good image,” Chang said. “No one wanted to go" > So here's a special +5% tax on all corporations in this Town Chang has come up with such a proposal already, albeit it won't levy the extra tax on companies with less than a 100 employees. > a problem here. And it isn't with Apple. Its with the Mayor. That could be the case, though I'm leaning towards the Mayors side. This article doesn't go into much depth, and yield enough detail for me to come to a conclusion. I would do some background research but I honestly can't be bothered today. I have a feeling this isn't the last time we here of this, so i'll keep this in the back of my mind for future reference.
    - dragontamer 10y ago
      Don't mention Apple explicitly in a law. IE: Lets increase all corporate taxes by 3% in this city, to pay for a new road project. Here's the proposed road, etc. etc. I mean, yeah, its hard to get approval from your citizens to build new roads. My area (on the East Coast) had to appease a ton of environmentalist types who refused to build a highway over any wetlands or swamps (ie: cheap areas), and the NIMBY guys who were being threatened with eviction. But you propose a road (meet with engineers / architects, get some fancy drawings, write it up, build a website, etc.), you describe the costs (not just monetary, but also the houses you have to bulldoze, the "quiet" you have to disturb, meet with HOA communities to help gather support despite the costs), you raise a tax to pay for it, borrow some money with a bond and then it gets done. Its not easy, but its the freaking job of a Mayor. --------- Why would the Mayor EVER have to explicitly reference Apple through this process? Only a complete dunce would do that, as it reeks of favoritism. I'm reading through this entire piece, and its completely devoid of substance. The complaints are hilariously awful. I'm not sure if the Mayor is actually incompetent, or if the guardian is just awful at writing and completely focused on the wrong issues. I mean, cripes. I've NEVER heard of a necessary road project being scuttled because of money. Its almost always the NIMBY people (to be fair, getting evicted from your family home for 50 years gotta suck because a road is being built through your plot), or environmentalists (Protect the swamp! protect the forest! Protect the grasslands!) who seem to get in the way. And NIMBY vs Environmentalists is a hell of an issue to work out.
- ams6110 10y ago
  (From near the end of the article) They (Apple) are already funding 18% of the city. I would argue that's dangerously undiversified already, and they want to increase the percentage? How much of the city services do they use? How much of the city expenses is their "fair" share?
nihonde 10y ago
The idea that Apple isn't the best thing that ever happened to Cupertino, California is hilarious.
- jefurii 10y ago
  No, the idea that the city should have to provide roads, utilities, etc to a huge, rich corporation and get nothing back for their trouble is terrible.
  - Mvandenbergh 10y ago
    Of course that would be absurd and unfair. That's why property taxes exist, to pay for local infrastructure. Apple pays a lot of property taxes in Cupertino. Property taxes are based on the value of (and in some cases the type of use of) local property, that's reasonable because the costs incurred by the local government to build and maintain infrastructure is related to their use of land. His argument seems to be that because Apple makes a lot of money they should also pay more taxes, luckily for him that's the way the system works! Apple also pays corporation tax on their income. Unfortunately for him that tax is federal and not local so he doesn't get any more than any other local government does in federal contributions.
  - nihonde 10y ago
    Creating the world's most successful company in your backyard, attracting high-value talent from all over the world, making Cupertino a household name...is "giving nothing back"?
    - fit2rule 10y ago
      How do any of those things improve the lives of non-Apple citizens living in Cupertino?
      - oarsinsync 10y ago
        The other industry that comes to the town off the back of it. The extra demand for goods and services.

pc86 10y ago

Why couldn't they? It's private property.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
sourcd 10y ago
As I said, in some countries, you can't treat an on duty public/government "servant" like that.
- justin66 10y ago
  If he'd been a police officer investigating a crime, or a fire marshall, that wouldn't fly. Doing it to the mayor is just rude.
  - ams6110 10y ago
    I would generally agree that someone like a mayor or governor deserves some default level of respect, but if he just showed up, unannounced, and "hoped to have a meeting" what did he really think would happen? Most people, even mayors, make appointments when they formally visit another organization in an official capacity. They don't just walk in and expect to be seen.
  - ptaipale 10y ago
    It depends. If the mayor has been rude or dishonest himself, it isn't. And as someome said, this does not quite pass the smell test.
  - imjk 10y ago
    But he wasn't even the mayor at the time he visited.
  - dragontamer 10y ago
    > If he'd been a police officer investigating a crime, Which means he'd have to have a warrant. If an Officer was "just investigating", they have to be invited or have a court order to get onto private property. In America anyway.

i386 10y ago

This doesn't pass the sniff test for me. It makes it sound like a conspiracy when reality is usually so very mundane. Companies don't do that unless people turn up randomly, start making crazy claims ("take me to Steve Jobs! I'm here regarding traffic congestion!") and start acting like an ass when they don't get what they want. Just pure speculation on my part.

spacecowboy_lon 10y ago

Try just walking into a telephone company like ATT or BT building unannounced and you will be escorted out even assuming you can get past the turnstiles, Exchanges (Central Offices) have even stricter security.