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I was the one who came forward about the Macbook Air
- cmelbye 17y agoI have to say, he handled it very well considering the circumstances. I don't think Divvyshot was at fault here either, his responses to Daniel were perfectly understandable.
- staunch 17y agoIt almost sounds like what happens in sexual harassment cases. The victim will often not give a straightforward refusal, because they're trying to avoid the consequences confrontation may lead to. It's not particularly admirable, but it is totally understandable.
- acangiano 17y agoSpot on comparison.
- noilly 17y ago"It takes 20 years to build a reputation and five minutes to ruin it. If you think about that, you'll do things differently." Warren Buffett
- drtse4 17y agoMaybe i'm underestimating these "consequences", but reading the interview i just cant' understand why he didn't simply said to the kid to get lost...
- mattm 17y agoI've lived in a few different countries and cultures and one thing I've learned is that the reply "Maybe later" is a polite way of saying "I will definitely not do it but I want to avoid any confrontation." It's actually quite surprising how universal this is.
- flog 17y agoYes, good point - perhaps, because of Daniel's age and inexperience, he didn't know about this social cue and kept on pushing it when he should have read between the lines. I'm sure we've all done dumb stuff in our youth we'd like to forget.
- doug_m 17y agoActually does he not admit he doesn't give a straightforward refusal because the idea of the coverage actually makes him think its worth it? rather than the consequences of the confrontation. The consequences feature in his thinking about if and when to report it to techcrunch a bit later on Not meaning this as criticism of Daniel though who comes across fine - massive, massive difference between considering doing something unethical and actually doing it.
- neilk 17y agoWhen talking to technology industry journalists, I'm not surprised that bribery starts to seem like a halfway good idea. Because most of it is bribery, of an indirect sort. In this industry, people are allowed to fly journalists to exotic locations, throw them massively expensive parties, comp them entry to conferences, entertain them, take them out to fabulous restaurants, give them enormous amounts of their valuable time, allow them sneak previews, team t-shirts and other tchotchkes, etc. etc. etc. And that's the stuff that's on the books. If you look at it as a simple ROI calculation, bribing a journalist seems like a good deal, and not tremendously different from all the other stuff you would have had to do anyway. I'm not sure that it's simple ethics that makes us all recoil from bribery. Because we're obviously okay with all the other indirect, soft bribery. I think, at a deeper level, people realize that once journalists offer direct quid pro quos, then there will be no end to their demands. So giving in to one will hurt all of one's colleagues (and oneself) in the future.
- deleted 17y ago[deleted]
- ryanwaggoner 17y agoYeah, you made some mistakes, but don't be too hard on yourself. That kind of situation is unexpected and when you're in the moment, it's hard to know how to respond. Good on you for doing the right thing in the end, and for coming clean about everything publicly now. In the end, a person's character is less about never making mistakes than how you handle the mistakes you do make.
- deleted 17y ago[deleted]
- mediaman 17y agoCalacanis does not seem worth trusting based on this.
- richcollins 17y agoor this: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1074168 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1074168 or this: http://www.seobook.com/black-hat-seo-case-study http://www.seobook.com/black-hat-seo-case-study ...
- travisjeffery 17y agoWhen did Calacanis ever seem to be worth trusting? He'll do anything to get attention.
- deleted 17y ago[deleted]
- onewland 17y agoI think he's worth trusting as much as it's worth it to trust anybody else in business; that is, not that much. Jason Calacanis is not your friend, unless he's actually your friend. If you have a juicy story you want kept secret, why would you tell one of the most loud people in your industry?
- deleted 17y ago[deleted]
- jasonmcalacanis 17y ago1. I did forward the note to Loren, but I didn't think Loren would use it this way. 2. Loren shouldn't have and that was not cool. 3. Daniel has problems and needs to get help. I feel bad for him because doing something so extreme at a young age so publicly is, well, not good. 4. Good on the company who turned Daniel in and who confessed--that's brave. It was also really stupid and desperate to even consider, let alone promise, giving a laptop in return for a blog post. Honestly, if you're company doesn't get attention don't get desperate... just keep trying! 5. Bad on me for sending this to Loren. I honestly didn't even read the whole thing... I was like "oh here is an email from the dude who got extorted cool... " I actually didn't think it was that big of deal. 6. If you can do a story about Open Angel Forum on Thursday and get it to the top slot on HN I will gladly give you an Apple Tablet. Anyway, I've got more important things to attend to at 1AM than Daniel extortion plot fall out. peace and love, jcal
- jaxc 17y agoI feel for Divvyshot, the actual event seems way beyond their control and this has brought a whole new angle. It just makes me wonder how many other eager startups may have/will/could be put in this kind of situation for 'positive coverage', when they have a lot at stake in their business.
- deleted 17y ago[deleted]
- cmelbye 17y agoReally? I don't think the kid got what he deserved to be honest.
- ax0n 17y agoI'm with you, but it's likely that he won't ever be taken seriously again. That is the sort of thing that IS just punishment, so long as it plays out that way.
- ryanhuff 17y agoI wouldn't be surprised to see him with a start-up in the next few years.
- ax0n 17y agoNeither would I, and that's cool by me. He's not stupid, just naïve and young. I don't wish him to be unsuccessful, but I do hope his reputation keeps him out of journalism and PR.
- apgwoz 17y agoI wonder if he'd get a feature story on Techcrunch after all of this? Would Arrington, if the startup was admirable and honest, forgive him and allow a story to be run?
- jbarciauskas 17y agoWhat's the value of not ever taking him seriously again? I understand that his actions were unethical, but do we really believe that people are incapable of processing feedback and learning from experience? Should someone be ostracized forever based on this? Obviously, he will need to work harder than the average person to prove his value in the future, but we shouldn't discount everything he says or does in perpetuity, that's just cruel.
- richcollins 17y agoDaniel recognizes his mistake and is simply trying to put this issue behind him. I regret that this post might make it more difficult for Daniel to do that. Why the hell does everyone seem to tiptoe around this guy? Asking for bribes isn't some sort of youthful indiscretion, its indicative of a fundamental personality trait that won't change as he gets older. The more I learn about Jason and Loren, the clearer their malicious intent becomes. Its unfortunate that he didn't do his homework on this one before contacting Calcanis. From my interactions with Sam, he seems like a good guy trying to do right by others by making something useful for them. He shouldn't be in any way apologetic to these leeches.
- khelloworld 17y agoSadly, a lot of people need to be bribed to get work done. Even if they may not ask directly, its written all over their face. Thats the way the world works.
- mattm 17y agoYou mean people expect something money in return for work? That sounds like a salary.
- pg 17y agoI don't think it's a fundamental personality trait. Bribery is common in certain countries. Do you think it's because the people in such countries have different fundamental personality traits? Seems more likely this sort of thing is largely determined by the situation. The kid may have just gotten carried away by the power he suddenly found himself holding.
- cglee 17y agoLet's say honesty is a fundamental personality trait. One can be honest and bribe in a country where bribery is accepted. That same person wouldn't in a country where bribery is illegal. It's not the act of bribing that determines one's personality trait - it's the honesty.
- mcav 17y agoLoren Feldman's threats against Divvyshot: > "If I were ipodrip and divvyshot, Id be be starting to think about damage control. Arrington cant hide you forever." > "Divvyshot. you have 24 hrs." Veiled threats via Twitter? Come on. Unnecessarily dramatic and threatening, childish even.
- ianbishop 17y agohttp://www.1938media.com/crunchgate/ http://www.1938media.com/crunchgate/ A little heavier of a threat than just twitter but this Loren guy came out as the biggest scumbag out of all of them for me.
- nailer 17y agoLoren's just reporting it - and says he got his info from multiple sources. He didn't ask for bribes, nor did he tell anyone he'd provide a bribe. Yes he's a dirty, agressive man, that makes puppets of his enemies to mock them, but that's just his personality - his ethics aren't being called into question here.
- jeff18 17y ago"On February 5th, Jason Calacanis posted some thoughts on the Techcrunch "extortion" story. I found his article insightful and well written. Wanting to reach out to someone about the issues I've been struggling with, I emailed him and confessed my involvement." This is the first time I have actually performed a real facepalm.
- ax0n 17y ago+1. Reaching out to someone? Not a horrible idea. Reaching out to Calacanis? What in the hell was he (not) thinking? He's the nosy watercooler gossip lady of the blogosphere.
- nailer 17y agoHe's worse than that. Mahalo is Yahoo 1994 being sold to people as if it's something else. I pity his investors.
- michael_dorfman 17y agoIt's much worse than that. Yahoo 1994 was providing some real value, in terms of organizing and filtering information. Yahoo 1994 would be something for Mahalo to aspire to.
- ax0n 17y agoWow! You guys are harsh. Love it. I should have been harsher. :P
- ctingom 17y agoFor what it's worth, I just signed up for Divvyshot. I had to fight hard not to say "giving it a shot."
- dasil003 17y agoI must be missing something (I haven't followed this story), but how is this an issue at all for anyone except TC and their journalistic integrity? Am I supposed to feel morally outraged that a tiny startup even just entertained the idea of giving someone a gift in exchange for blog coverage? Is there actually something here or just self-important silicon valley pundit drama? (god I'm glad I unsubscribed from TC long ago)
- ryanhuff 17y agoSeems like its a small start-up founder trying to protect his baby from PR hungry wolves.
- rooshdi 17y agoYes, especially since these PR hungry wolves gave him 24 hours to confess publicly before they put their own spin on what happened. I commend him for coming out in good faith and being upfront and honest about the situation. I definitely have more respect for him and Divvyshot as an organization after this.
- gojomo 17y agoI'm surprised the 'ask' was as blatant as it was; I thought it would have been a sort of roundabout quid pro quo, "my project needs this, friends help me with hardware, I make sure my friends get good TC coverage." But, Brusilovsky was young and unsubtle!
- dwwoelfel 17y agoThis account contradicts what Daniel Brusilovsky said during his Mixergy interview (http://mixergy.com/daniel-brusilovsky/ http://mixergy.com/daniel-brusilovsky/). From the interview transcript: Interviewee: I mean, so there were conversations that I had with this company and both in jokingly in manner and that they may have perceived as the real thing. Andrew: I see so you and I are sitting and talking and I might want you to write about Mixergy for Tech crunch and I say listen Dan. Why don’t you write for Mixergy? Why don’t you write about Mixergy on Tech crunch? No there’s nothing, there’s no loops here. I say what if I give you this Mac book pro that I’m writing? That kind of joke. Interviewee: Exactly! Andrew: We’re not giving you the Mac book pro but we’re kidding around. Interviewee: Yeah
- AndrewWarner 17y agoFor what it's worth, Daniel told me who turned him into TC, but I agreed not to say. And these two accounts of the conversations contradict each other. What you excerpted here is pretty much what he told me before the interview. A few lines down from your excerpt: Interviewee: There are IMs. They’re not made public and hopefully they won't be made public.
- Sam_Odio 17y agoI realize this contradicts the details Daniel's story. I'm trying to respect Daniel's wishes by not releasing transcipts of our conversations. However if Daniel feels that I wasn't fair or accurate then i'll release transcripts. I'll leave it up to him.
- 17y ago
- patio11 17y agoThis is one of those stories that I can't read without thinking "The Valley is a wacky, wacky place".
- davidw 17y agoA few other adjectives come to mind, but... yeah. Not sure having glanced at this story really adds anything to my life. It just looks like a big "Internet Drama" piece:-/ I'm sure it's important to those involved, but it really doesn't affect my life.
- deleted 17y ago[deleted]
- aresant 17y agoCalacanis is going to love this - that man thrives on controversy, good and bad, and we keep letting him back into the spotlight.
- jasonmcalacanis 17y agovoted up
- minalecs 17y agoI think you guys are way to easy on Daniel using the cover of youth and naivety, at 17 you are more than capable of knowing this kind of behavior is unacceptable. The only reason he would do extort someone like this is because he is fully aware of the power of his position. If what Sam is saying is true.. then there should be no excuse.
- jasonmcalacanis 17y agoCorrect. Daniel wants to be treated like an adult when he is writing a story or claiming to be the stage manager at TechCrunch50 (uhhh.... no, he wasn't). Then he wants to be forgiven for a folly of youth when he extorts startups. He's an adult, he f-ed up and he really never apologized correctly. "A line was crossed" is not an apology... he really should have said "I tried to extort thousands of dollars from companies in exchange for blogs posts and I betrayed the trust of the people who helped me most in my professional life: the TechCrunch team."
- tlrobinson 17y agoHonest question: why does anyone listen to anything Loren Feldman says?
- pilif 17y agopersonally, I'm sick of this kindergarden. While I agree that journalistic integrity is very important, I fail to see the gravity in this issue to warrant it being blow out of proportions the way it is. Who cares about some crappy MacBook Air (that whould not have been fun to work with anyways) and a startup like so many others doing what so many others do? There are so many much bigger issues than stuff like this. Get a grip. Sorry. I had to vent. Now mod me down into oblivion. I guess European and US cultures don't quite mix - over here, stuff like this just is no big deal.
- covercash 17y agoI had a long response to all of this drama typed out but in the end I decided to simplify it down to this: What part of this, if any, is constructive to the startup community?
- _delirium 17y agoI wonder if there's a smallish set of keywords that one could filter to get a less valley-drama-filled HN, with a higher percentage of that excellent tech content. Maybe filter out anything involving "calacanis" and "techcrunch" and see how it goes (though this particular post would be hard to catch, since the title only alludes to it).
- 100k 17y agoHacker Newspaper removes all TechCrunch stories: http://hacker-newspaper.gilesb.com/ http://hacker-newspaper.gilesb.com/ Wouldn't catch this story but it would remove a lot of drama.
- gruseom 17y agoSam being brave and trying to make the make the best of this is a positive example of responding to adversity.
- tdm911 17y agoLoren Feldman responds: http://www.1938media.com/crunchgate-what-makes-sammy-run/ http://www.1938media.com/crunchgate-what-makes-sammy-run/ Me personally? I signed up for Divvyshot a few weeks ago and forgot about it. I'm about to go check it out again now. I like Sam's attitude and honesty.
- eslifka 17y agoThe tone in that post by Feldman makes my skin crawl. I hadn't heard of him before but I don't think I could ever read anything he's written now. Is he always like that? ICK.
- tdm911 17y agosadly, yes. i used to read his blog when it was good natured poking of fun at the tech industry (arrington, scoble etc) but since he seems to have developed some issue with tech crunch, he has become vindictive, nasty and nothing more than an internet troll.
- deleted 17y ago[deleted]
- portman 17y agoUgh. The growing lack of civility online makes me sad. I want to undo the traffic I just sent to that blog, so I've reproduced the contents here in the hopes that other people can avoid clicking on the link: Crunchgate - What Makes Sammy Run? By Loren Feldman, on March 2nd, 2010 Well it seems we have yet more about Crunchgate to discuss. I thought we were all done with this. It really is the gift that keeps giving. It seems our newest character in this pathetic tale is some guy named Sam Odio. Seems Sam owns Divvyshot. Sam’s also an idiot, see he’s the guy who Dainel Brusivlosky wanted the McAir from for reviews on Techcrunch. He says he never got it for him though. Good for you Sam. HIS FRIEND DID GET DANIEL AN IMAC though for coverage. Right Sam? Anyway, Sam wrote a big woe is me blog post about how I outed his crimes with Jason Calacanis. Only problem is it never happened. A lot of people knew that Sam was dirty and weak. Many people know of his story with Daniel Bru. I had 3 different people tell me in fact. Amateurs like these guys tend to have big mouths. Especially dopey ones with shitty iphone apps. Knowing how weak and stupid someone must be to be in this situation to begin with I knew I could scare this guy into confessing his evil ways. I tweeted. “You have 24hrs.” That’s it. That’s all I said. Well, when you are guilty and stupid that’s all it takes to make you cave, because that’s exactly what Sam did. Sam, you are a weak dishonest dope. You were played by Daniel Bru, and now you were just played by your own guilt. All I needed to do was give the mere suggestion that Sam might get caught and he confessed, and that’s what happened here. Social engineering FTW!! Sam you need to stop crying. You are weak, dishonest and stupid. I can’t imagine these traits help you with building quality iphone apps. The real story Sammy boy is not you, but which one of your friends BOUGHT DANIEL BRUSIVLOVSKY AN IMAC FOR COVERAGE ON TECHCRUNCH? C’mon Sammy the truth will set you free. WHO BOUGHT DANIEL BRUSIVLOVSKY AN IMAC FOR COVERAGE ON TECHCRUNCH?
- starkfist 17y agoThe worst part of this story is that it exposed me to the 1938media website. A 45 year old man making youtube puppet shows about bloggers? yikes.
- smokinn 17y agoI find it ironic that by going around and routinely downvoting anything jasonmcalacanis posts in these comments it makes them much easier to spot; I simply scrolled down and read everything in light grey.
- jackowayed 17y agoIrony: extorting someone into talking about how they were extorted. Also, Loren just posted another piece on the matter. But I won't link to it because it's total trash. It's one giant attack on Sam's character without saying anything at all interesting. And if you do go look at the post, be a good citizen and use adblock =]
- AdamN 17y agoNow I know not to trust Jason Calcanis. He always seemed like a good guy, if a bit of a megalomaniac. Anybody who forwards private emails is way beyond the pale of somebody who offers a MacBook Air for good coverage. The latter is an ethical lapse, the former is evidence of a deep character flaw. Jason Calcanis owes the community a large, unequivocal apology through his newsletter - without ads and hyperbole.
- yardie 17y agoFunny how when the FCC demanded that bloggers disclose any gifts they receive while covering something they were all in arms about it. It was mandated to avoid situations like this. If they want to be accepted as serious journalism they have to expect to be treated as such. If you fuck up, lie, take bribes or violate journalism ethics then expect to fired and hung out to dry.
- sumeetjain 17y agoRegardless of whose story is correct (http://www.1938media.com/crunchgate-what-makes-sammy-run http://www.1938media.com/crunchgate-what-makes-sammy-run vs. http://sam.bluwiki.com/blog/2010/03/confession-i-was-one-who-came-forward.php http://sam.bluwiki.com/blog/2010/03/confession-i-was-one-who...), a real lesson for young people in this community emerged: Your character and personality can be more powerful than your fame. People here have commented on how thoughtful and helpful Sam is. Yet Loren's tone of voice alone has made it probably impossible for his words to be taken seriously. Imagine his above response written calmly - or even just respectfully: He would stand a much better chance of being listened to. And Jason's approach to the matter appears equally immature. I've never met any of these players, but Sam sounds like he's much older than Jason or Loren. This doesn't mean you have to sound like a "boring old guy" - but it does mean that you give yourself an uphill battle when you speak like a child.
- lotharbot 17y agoMy only exposure to this has been this thread and the links posted in it. This has allowed me to see Sam, Jason, and Loren in action. I have no chips in this game, so to speak; having never heard of any of these people before today, I'm as neutral an observer as they come. Sam comes across as thoughtful, tempted to do something foolish and immoral, but ultimately a guy who did the right thing. Daniel (via secondhand sources) comes across as a fool who may have sacrificed his career over a macbook, but who seems to have learned from his foolishness. It remains to be seen how he'll weather this. Loren and Jason don't come across as reasonable or trustworthy to me. None of what they've said here or in the linked stories has made me think "these are people I want to go to for information". Jason seems to have trouble taking things seriously and he's made a lot of excuses for himself. Loren just comes across as mean and vindictive. So I guess my contribution to this thread is to say, Loren and Jason, you've created some image problems for yourselves. I know I'll be taking anything I see your names attached to with a grain of salt from here on out.
- 1938media 17y agoThe only problem with all this nonsense is that Jason Calacanis wasn't the only one who knew. In fact I probably knew before him. He was just the one who Sam confessed to. Did that ever occur to any of you? In terms of this flaming email so what? So Jason sent me an email that I can't even remember which is probably due to the fact that it contained nothing I didn't already know. I don't get this whole thing. No emails of any kind were printed, talked about nothing. Here's my more theatrical response. http://www.1938media.com/crunchgate-the-blame-game/#respond http://www.1938media.com/crunchgate-the-blame-game/#respond
- almost 17y agoYou sir appear to be one seriously creepy fellow. What's up with you?
- nailer 17y agoI imagine he's pissed off that people are trying to act like he's in the wrong, when he didn't ask for a bribe (like the TechCrunch reporter), nor state he'd provide a bribe (like the poster). I've never met Loren but in general he is refreshingly honest and enjoys raining on the parade of anyone that thinks blogging, parties, and thinly-transparent self-promoting charity events matter more than products do - generally using puppets as a preferred form of expression. We desperately need him to come to London sometime.
- nailer 17y agoTo those aggressively moderating me down, I suggest you re-read the HN guidelines - furthermore the parent poster doesn't dispute they said they'd provide a MacBook - read the linked article.
- deleted 17y ago[deleted]
- johnmcdonald 17y agoDude, you are seriously unbalanced. Do you have any talents other than yelling into a video camera? Who appointed you the watchdog of tech industry ethics? The worst you can say about Sam Odio is that he wasn't more timely and direct with his refusal. As others have pointed out, saying maybe is often an easier way of saying no. In the end he didn't provide the kick back and he did the right thing by going to Techcrunch. I'm sure you've got your own skeletons and as you so ominously warned Odio, 'you will get what's coming to you'. Karma's a bitch.
- petercooper 17y agoI love Scoble's response to this: I'm more likely to check out Divvyshot because of this post. Thanks, off to check it out! Any publicity is good publicity, it seems..
- wheatthinz 17y agohttp://www.inquisitr.com/64659/like-meatloaf-through-a-straw-crunchgate-drags-on/ http://www.inquisitr.com/64659/like-meatloaf-through-a-straw...