10 ms·

But, wait.... #10 - eat less fat? That runs counter to science too... http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/07/the-sugar-conspiracy-robert-lustig-john-

But, wait.... #10 - eat less fat? That runs counter to science too... http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/07/the-sugar-conspiracy-robert-lustig-john-yudkin http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/07/the-sugar-con...

samfisher83 10y ago
It you a eat a lot of fat you will get fat too. Its all about moderation. If you eat 4000 calories of FAT everyday you will get fat.
- adrianN 10y ago
  Eating 4000 calories of anything will make you fat.
  - lrei 10y ago
    Eat (drink) 4000 calories of gasoline. wont make you fat. point is: only calories you can convert into "human fat" will make you fatter. that process can not happen without certain chemicals (hormones) in your body, like insulin mentioned above. it's not as straightforward as that which was op's point.
    - koluft 10y ago
      Are your confusing nutritional calories with physics calories? When people talk about diet, of course they are talking about calories obtained from digestion, not combustion engines.
      - lrei 10y ago
        Energy is energy, a calorie is a calorie in gasoline, food or electricity. However when talking about nutrition labels, those are generally an estimate of calories potentially extracted by humans (which I think is what you mean with nutritional calories). I'm not confusing anything. But some people seem convinced that the car analogy is exactly how the human body works - you put food into your mouth and it gets "burned" by exercise or stored (calories in, calories out) and no amount of evidence or science seems to convince them otherwise.
  - Cerium 10y ago
    Have fun eating 4000 calories of carrots, cabbage, broccoli.. even eating brown rice is hard! Carrots have about 200 calories per pound, so we are talking about 20 pounds of carrots per day. Brown rice (cooked) has about 200 calories per cup, so again, 20 cups of brown rice? Meanwhile a cup of vegetable oil has about 1900 calories.
    - vonmoltke 10y ago
      The 7.4oz bowl of organic brown rice on the desk in front of me has 310 calories. It's roughly a cup by volume as well. I could easily eat 15 of them over the course of a day.
- thesis 10y ago
  Not if you burn those same 4000 calories a day.
  - vanderZwan 10y ago
    Unless you're Micheal Jai White[0] or Dwayne Johnson[1], you won't burn 4000 extra (kilo)calories a day. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fylDp1VtZbA&t=2m30s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fylDp1VtZbA&t=2m30s [1] http://www.muscleandfitness.com/nutrition/meal-plans/smell-what-rock-cooking http://www.muscleandfitness.com/nutrition/meal-plans/smell-w...
    - jeffwass 10y ago
      My running app estimates I burned a bit over 4000 calories in the marathon I ran last weekend! Though clearly this is an exceptional event, not something I could do even semi-regularly.
- dualogy 10y ago
  > It you a eat a lot of fat you will get fat too. Its all about moderation. If you eat 4000 calories of FAT everyday you will get fat Calories-in-calories-out without considering the hormones that drive both satiety and crucially fat-storage-vs-fat-mobilization (and thus drive both how many calories are craved and how many are burned) is misguided. CICO isn't wrong, but for all practical purposes what drives CICO in real life are those hormones, which are in turn affected by the ratio of fats and carbs in diet: chiefly insulin and leptin. How those are affected by 4000kcal-of-carbs-low-fat (badly) vs 4000kcal-of-fat-no-carbs (benign/beneficially) is easy to find out. 4000kcal of fat and low carbs, if one could stomach it for years, after a few weeks of keto-adaptation? They'd be a tad little bit fatter than they'd like, and feel profusely hot and sweaty. As their leptin and insulin sensitivity gets ever-better, 4000kcal will soon become impossible to stomach, however. 4000kcal of carbs and low fat for years, just become obese and get metabolic syndrome.
  - jtuente 10y ago
    > Calories-in-calories-out without considering the hormones Your argument here boils down to: CICO is easier with a balanced diet. I don't think a reasonable person is going to argue against that. > after a few weeks of keto-adaptation? They'd be a tad little bit fatter than they'd like Honestly, if they could stomach it, they'd balloon up just as much as its opposite. Keto-adaptation doesn't change how your body processes fat, it just does a better job of not making a person feel ill when eating more fat in their diet.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - jdminhbg 10y ago
      > I don't think a reasonable person is going to argue against that. You'd be surprised.
- hyperchase 10y ago
  Can confirm. Did a year long dirty-bulk on a ketogenic diet while lifting heavy weights, got fat (and didn't really put on that much extra muscle either)...
  - nugget 10y ago
    What was your daily diet like?
    - hyperchase 10y ago
      Lots of eggs, bacon, beef, cheese, 35% cream and peanut butter.
falcolas 10y ago
Fat is very dense in calories, so if your goal is to reduce caloric intake, reducing the fat will go a long ways towards that goal.
- carsongross 10y ago
  That is first order thinking. If eating fat satisfies you for longer than salty carbs, the net calories will be better. If it keeps your insulin levels steadier, it will effect calorie absorption. And so on. Humans are not bunsen burners: we are impossibly complicated chemical systems with massive reflexivity built into them.
- e40 10y ago
  But calories from fat are more satisfying and might very well let you eat less calories over all.
  - xlm1717 10y ago
    This is why I can't see anyone eating 4000 calories of fat without feeling so full they'll throw most of it back up.
    - avn2109 10y ago
      I have eaten 4000 calories of fat in an afternoon, mostly in cream and butter as part of a giant poundcake trifle [0]. I didn't throw up but I really regretted it all evening. This was at a time when I was very active and eating around 7000 calories a day. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trifle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trifle
      - ketogrammer 10y ago
        Supposedly, this works if you eat fat and protein with very limited carbs, if any. For instance, I would gag if I had to eat those sticks of butter by themselves, but I can easily eat a lot of slices of cake. This all is the basis of a ketogenic diet, kind of like Atkins on steroids

samfisher83 10y ago

It you a eat a lot of fat you will get fat too. Its all about moderation. If you eat 4000 calories of FAT everyday you will get fat.

adrianN 10y ago
Eating 4000 calories of anything will make you fat.
- lrei 10y ago
  Eat (drink) 4000 calories of gasoline. wont make you fat. point is: only calories you can convert into "human fat" will make you fatter. that process can not happen without certain chemicals (hormones) in your body, like insulin mentioned above. it's not as straightforward as that which was op's point.
  - koluft 10y ago
    Are your confusing nutritional calories with physics calories? When people talk about diet, of course they are talking about calories obtained from digestion, not combustion engines.
    - lrei 10y ago
      Energy is energy, a calorie is a calorie in gasoline, food or electricity. However when talking about nutrition labels, those are generally an estimate of calories potentially extracted by humans (which I think is what you mean with nutritional calories). I'm not confusing anything. But some people seem convinced that the car analogy is exactly how the human body works - you put food into your mouth and it gets "burned" by exercise or stored (calories in, calories out) and no amount of evidence or science seems to convince them otherwise.
- Cerium 10y ago
  Have fun eating 4000 calories of carrots, cabbage, broccoli.. even eating brown rice is hard! Carrots have about 200 calories per pound, so we are talking about 20 pounds of carrots per day. Brown rice (cooked) has about 200 calories per cup, so again, 20 cups of brown rice? Meanwhile a cup of vegetable oil has about 1900 calories.
  - vonmoltke 10y ago
    The 7.4oz bowl of organic brown rice on the desk in front of me has 310 calories. It's roughly a cup by volume as well. I could easily eat 15 of them over the course of a day.
thesis 10y ago
Not if you burn those same 4000 calories a day.
- vanderZwan 10y ago
  Unless you're Micheal Jai White[0] or Dwayne Johnson[1], you won't burn 4000 extra (kilo)calories a day. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fylDp1VtZbA&t=2m30s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fylDp1VtZbA&t=2m30s [1] http://www.muscleandfitness.com/nutrition/meal-plans/smell-what-rock-cooking http://www.muscleandfitness.com/nutrition/meal-plans/smell-w...
  - jeffwass 10y ago
    My running app estimates I burned a bit over 4000 calories in the marathon I ran last weekend! Though clearly this is an exceptional event, not something I could do even semi-regularly.
dualogy 10y ago
> It you a eat a lot of fat you will get fat too. Its all about moderation. If you eat 4000 calories of FAT everyday you will get fat Calories-in-calories-out without considering the hormones that drive both satiety and crucially fat-storage-vs-fat-mobilization (and thus drive both how many calories are craved and how many are burned) is misguided. CICO isn't wrong, but for all practical purposes what drives CICO in real life are those hormones, which are in turn affected by the ratio of fats and carbs in diet: chiefly insulin and leptin. How those are affected by 4000kcal-of-carbs-low-fat (badly) vs 4000kcal-of-fat-no-carbs (benign/beneficially) is easy to find out. 4000kcal of fat and low carbs, if one could stomach it for years, after a few weeks of keto-adaptation? They'd be a tad little bit fatter than they'd like, and feel profusely hot and sweaty. As their leptin and insulin sensitivity gets ever-better, 4000kcal will soon become impossible to stomach, however. 4000kcal of carbs and low fat for years, just become obese and get metabolic syndrome.
- jtuente 10y ago
  > Calories-in-calories-out without considering the hormones Your argument here boils down to: CICO is easier with a balanced diet. I don't think a reasonable person is going to argue against that. > after a few weeks of keto-adaptation? They'd be a tad little bit fatter than they'd like Honestly, if they could stomach it, they'd balloon up just as much as its opposite. Keto-adaptation doesn't change how your body processes fat, it just does a better job of not making a person feel ill when eating more fat in their diet.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - jdminhbg 10y ago
    > I don't think a reasonable person is going to argue against that. You'd be surprised.
hyperchase 10y ago
Can confirm. Did a year long dirty-bulk on a ketogenic diet while lifting heavy weights, got fat (and didn't really put on that much extra muscle either)...
- nugget 10y ago
  What was your daily diet like?
  - hyperchase 10y ago
    Lots of eggs, bacon, beef, cheese, 35% cream and peanut butter.

falcolas 10y ago

Fat is very dense in calories, so if your goal is to reduce caloric intake, reducing the fat will go a long ways towards that goal.

carsongross 10y ago
That is first order thinking. If eating fat satisfies you for longer than salty carbs, the net calories will be better. If it keeps your insulin levels steadier, it will effect calorie absorption. And so on. Humans are not bunsen burners: we are impossibly complicated chemical systems with massive reflexivity built into them.
e40 10y ago
But calories from fat are more satisfying and might very well let you eat less calories over all.
- xlm1717 10y ago
  This is why I can't see anyone eating 4000 calories of fat without feeling so full they'll throw most of it back up.
  - avn2109 10y ago
    I have eaten 4000 calories of fat in an afternoon, mostly in cream and butter as part of a giant poundcake trifle [0]. I didn't throw up but I really regretted it all evening. This was at a time when I was very active and eating around 7000 calories a day. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trifle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trifle
    - ketogrammer 10y ago
      Supposedly, this works if you eat fat and protein with very limited carbs, if any. For instance, I would gag if I had to eat those sticks of butter by themselves, but I can easily eat a lot of slices of cake. This all is the basis of a ketogenic diet, kind of like Atkins on steroids