5 ms·

And this world needs better algorithms. It depends on what you put first: yourself or others.

by feduzi 10y ago

tossaway1 10y ago
Seems like a false choice. Plenty of people make a living doing things that help the world.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- feduzi 10y ago
  I didn't suggest just 2 options. It is a range of choices you get, starting from "you", ending with "others", pick any point. And sure, you're right "Plenty of people make a living doing things that help the world.", but why this "Kraken" is not Open Source then? Disclaimer: it is a discussion, I don't try to blame RAD Game Tools for not releasing the source of Kraken. Just curios of what others think.
jagtesh 10y ago
Putting yourself first isn't a bad thing, especially where bread and butter is involved. Might I suggest dual licensing with a provision for free-to-use in non-commercial projects? Something similar to QT.
- feduzi 10y ago
  Where did you get the idea that putting yourself first is a bad thing in my comment? I didn't mean that. What I was trying to say that you can pick any of this. At the end of the day you're the one who did the job, so it is up to you to decide what to do with it.
- tossaway1 10y ago
  Qt is also free to use in commercial projects. I believe fftw had the sort of dual license you have in mind.
sbuttgereit 10y ago
You seem to see this as zero sum, meaning that the algorithm writer can only win if "the world" somehow loses. Why is the algorithm writer morally bound to give up his time and effort to the world without compensation? Or why should he consider his own needs and desires somehow lesser that anyone else's? Can not the world benefit from the work of a clever developer while the developer can benefit by earning payment for his efforts? If the world really needs better algorithms: it can pay for them. That's called a trade, something where both parties win... and if they don't, one party or the other walks away. What this discards is the immoral idea that you can only be good by becoming some sacrificial animal that discards his own needs in favor of others. Oh... and by the way... you can sometimes advance your own interests by NOT charging them for your work; a lot of open source actually does work this way in practice (even if self-benefit is not the motivating factor for many). Trades are not always monetary.
- feduzi 10y ago
  Where did you see all this in my 2 sentence comment? I never said it is bad to put yourself first. You're free to do whatever you want with your work, because this work is yours. If anyone against they can make an alternative. There's no sum and the choice is huge starting from "you" and ending with "others", pick any point of this range.
  - sbuttgereit 10y ago
    If I misread the intent of your comment then I apologize. But context does matter and in context, your statements carried a fair amount of meaning with little explanation. I don't want to suggest that you said that someone should be forced to release their code; but your short statement seemed to stake a moral claim. A claim I don't see as valid. If I'm wrong, I'd be interested to know what you actually meant.
    - feduzi 10y ago
      What I tried to say is that there's other side of some "people need to eat". But it is up to the author or authors to choose which side to choose (or any point in between). And there's nothing wrong with any choice. That would be great to have this algorithm open sourced. And it is sad to see how this went from "Unfortunately not open source" to "people need to eat". Also, please note that this company is $1.37M in sales (http://www.hoovers.com/company-information/company-search.html?term=RAD%20Game%20Tools http://www.hoovers.com/company-information/company-search.ht...). So it is not about "eat" only.
vvanders 10y ago
Does good will feed my family? Will my landlord let me pay the rent in GitHub stars? Or in the words of The Oatmeal: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/exposure http://theoatmeal.com/comics/exposure
- alayne 10y ago
  Good luck feeding your family with the sales of a proprietary compression algorithm.
  - corysama 10y ago
    This company did exactly that for a long time http://www.radgametools.com/bnkmain.htm http://www.radgametools.com/bnkmain.htm
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
- feduzi 10y ago
  $1.37M in sales(http://www.hoovers.com/company-information/company-search.html?term=RAD%20Game%20Tools http://www.hoovers.com/company-information/company-search.ht...). They sure can feed their families. And, yes, you're right: good does not feed your family. https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/19/d3/b0/19d3b0b76df6bc40e6dd7731c90f87be.jpg https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/19/d3/b0/19d3b0b76...
- lazyjones 10y ago
  It may not directly feed your family, but it can certainly improve the world you live in and that includes your own private habitat. Small improvements might not be worth giving away because the effect on your life will be negligible, but bigger ones should be (at least once you've obtained financial independence through them, there's no longer a good excuse not to).

And this world needs better algorithms. It depends on what you put first: yourself or others.

by feduzi 10y ago

And this world needs better algorithms. It depends on what you put first: yourself or others.

tossaway1 10y ago

Seems like a false choice. Plenty of people make a living doing things that help the world.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
feduzi 10y ago
I didn't suggest just 2 options. It is a range of choices you get, starting from "you", ending with "others", pick any point. And sure, you're right "Plenty of people make a living doing things that help the world.", but why this "Kraken" is not Open Source then? Disclaimer: it is a discussion, I don't try to blame RAD Game Tools for not releasing the source of Kraken. Just curios of what others think.

jagtesh 10y ago

Putting yourself first isn't a bad thing, especially where bread and butter is involved. Might I suggest dual licensing with a provision for free-to-use in non-commercial projects? Something similar to QT.

feduzi 10y ago
Where did you get the idea that putting yourself first is a bad thing in my comment? I didn't mean that. What I was trying to say that you can pick any of this. At the end of the day you're the one who did the job, so it is up to you to decide what to do with it.
tossaway1 10y ago
Qt is also free to use in commercial projects. I believe fftw had the sort of dual license you have in mind.

sbuttgereit 10y ago

You seem to see this as zero sum, meaning that the algorithm writer can only win if "the world" somehow loses. Why is the algorithm writer morally bound to give up his time and effort to the world without compensation? Or why should he consider his own needs and desires somehow lesser that anyone else's? Can not the world benefit from the work of a clever developer while the developer can benefit by earning payment for his efforts? If the world really needs better algorithms: it can pay for them. That's called a trade, something where both parties win... and if they don't, one party or the other walks away. What this discards is the immoral idea that you can only be good by becoming some sacrificial animal that discards his own needs in favor of others. Oh... and by the way... you can sometimes advance your own interests by NOT charging them for your work; a lot of open source actually does work this way in practice (even if self-benefit is not the motivating factor for many). Trades are not always monetary.

feduzi 10y ago
Where did you see all this in my 2 sentence comment? I never said it is bad to put yourself first. You're free to do whatever you want with your work, because this work is yours. If anyone against they can make an alternative. There's no sum and the choice is huge starting from "you" and ending with "others", pick any point of this range.
- sbuttgereit 10y ago
  If I misread the intent of your comment then I apologize. But context does matter and in context, your statements carried a fair amount of meaning with little explanation. I don't want to suggest that you said that someone should be forced to release their code; but your short statement seemed to stake a moral claim. A claim I don't see as valid. If I'm wrong, I'd be interested to know what you actually meant.
  - feduzi 10y ago
    What I tried to say is that there's other side of some "people need to eat". But it is up to the author or authors to choose which side to choose (or any point in between). And there's nothing wrong with any choice. That would be great to have this algorithm open sourced. And it is sad to see how this went from "Unfortunately not open source" to "people need to eat". Also, please note that this company is $1.37M in sales (http://www.hoovers.com/company-information/company-search.html?term=RAD%20Game%20Tools http://www.hoovers.com/company-information/company-search.ht...). So it is not about "eat" only.

vvanders 10y ago

Does good will feed my family? Will my landlord let me pay the rent in GitHub stars? Or in the words of The Oatmeal: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/exposure http://theoatmeal.com/comics/exposure

alayne 10y ago
Good luck feeding your family with the sales of a proprietary compression algorithm.
- corysama 10y ago
  This company did exactly that for a long time http://www.radgametools.com/bnkmain.htm http://www.radgametools.com/bnkmain.htm
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
feduzi 10y ago
$1.37M in sales(http://www.hoovers.com/company-information/company-search.html?term=RAD%20Game%20Tools http://www.hoovers.com/company-information/company-search.ht...). They sure can feed their families. And, yes, you're right: good does not feed your family. https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/19/d3/b0/19d3b0b76df6bc40e6dd7731c90f87be.jpg https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/19/d3/b0/19d3b0b76...
lazyjones 10y ago
It may not directly feed your family, but it can certainly improve the world you live in and that includes your own private habitat. Small improvements might not be worth giving away because the effect on your life will be negligible, but bigger ones should be (at least once you've obtained financial independence through them, there's no longer a good excuse not to).