6 ms·

For all the good SpaceX is doing (and it is great indeed), has Musk taken steps to prevent his company from turning into essentially the Weyland-Yutani Corporat

by j1vms 10y ago

For all the good SpaceX is doing (and it is great indeed), has Musk taken steps to prevent his company from turning into essentially the Weyland-Yutani Corporation in say 50 or 100 years from now? A question made partly in jest of course. I guess a response would include Musk's well-known fears of AI, though I don't recall him stating he is afraid of out-of-control private interests with respect to interplanetary exploration and colonization.

bovermyer 10y ago
I dunno, if it gets us off this rock, I'd be willing to put up with a Weyland-Yutani.
- exit 10y ago
  because you want immense suffering to expand outward undefinitely, instead of being confined to one dot where there's a hopeful chance of it being put out?
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - deedubaya 10y ago
    > immense suffering to expand outward undefinitely Reminded me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0O5h4enjrHw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0O5h4enjrHw around the 2:30 mark.
  - blacksmith_tb 10y ago
    Certainly one possible way human suffering might be "put out" on this pale blue dot is by the extinction of H. sapiens, either by our killing ourselves off, or by some kind of serious natural catastrophe (large meteorite strike, supervolcano, etc.). So I'd suggest that it would be better to colonize the solar system before we make whatever developmental leaps that could let us transcend suffering. Otherwise we may never get the chance.
    - exit 10y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinatalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinatalism
    - peterwoo 10y ago
      Humans killing ourselves / extinction events are incredibly unlikely over the time frame that SpaceX will exist for. They're also easier to survive or avoid than it would be to colonize Mars. Except maybe surviving a gamma ray burst -- but who knows, since it looks pretty impossible for humans to colonize a planet. On the other hand we have a chance to save the tens of billions of people who will live and die in the 21st century and experience genocide, starvation, disease, child abuse, imprisonment, other violence, etc. We're already doing it -- it's achievable. It can't wait for a Mars colony!
      - exit 10y ago
        > On the other hand we have a chance to save the tens of billions of people who will live and die in the 21st century and experience genocide, starvation, disease, child abuse, imprisonment, other violence, etc. We're already doing it -- it's achievable. It can't wait for a Mars colony! i don't follow. why do you think those horrible things wouldn't happen on an extraterrestrial colony?
        peterwoo 10y ago
        I don't think we should put any resources into colonization activities right now. In case it's unclear, I'm agreeing with you and responding to blacksmith_tb's suggestion that "it would be better to colonize the solar system before we make whatever developmental leaps could let us transcend suffering".
        bovermyer 10y ago
        It sounds like you have much more faith in the longevity of Earth as a viable life-supporting planet than I do. I'd love to see what data you're looking at that supports such optimism.
marze 10y ago
If Mars "secedes", I'm sure looking forward to a possible real life battle of worlds, something thus far only enjoyed through scifi and games.
- samstave 10y ago
  How do you expect me to feed these five mouths?
  - logfromblammo 10y ago
    What happened to the other one, Benny?
- api 10y ago
  If that happens we better hope it never escalates to physical conflict at any scale. Google "hypervelocity kinetic weapon" then factor in that adding a hydrogen bomb warhead wouldn't be much harder and would give it that much more punch. Have fun deflecting an inbound going 500k mph. Interplanetary war between players that advanced would be a really fast path to extinction.
- aerovistae 10y ago
  Laughable. What would they fight over? I love sci-fi too, but let's be realistic. If Musk succeeds, and I believe he will, it will still be quite a long time, possibly hundreds of years, before there's any notable population on Mars beyond a single city. They won't have any resources we don't have here, aside from Martian tourist trinkets, and the cost of getting resources from Mars to Earth would defeat any potential profit anyone could make. Musk has said this more than once. In scifi, this plot flaw is usually undone by having the alien planet possess a resource that can't be found or made anywhere else, like Avatar's unobtainium or Dune's Melange. But in the real world, that's not a thing. If we're not fighting over resources, then what? So what if the Martian colonists declare independence? Independence from who, anyway? "Earth"? Because it won't be an extension of any existing country, it won't just be "US territory on Mars." It'll be its own entity, with inhabitants from a variety of the countries on Earth. And it's not like Earth is going to be demanding "tribute" from it, that makes no sense on any level. In Heinlein's "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress," the Earth demands grain shipments from the Moon to feed its overgrown population. But....is that likely, really? Are we really likely to be dependent on grain shipments from Mars? It's a fun scenario, but I doubt it. It seems more likely to me that they'll find ways to scale grain production with existing land, as they have done for decades and continue to do today.
maerF0x0 10y ago
For those, like me, who didnt know the reference: http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Weyland-Yutani http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Weyland-Yutani i believe the point was: "Weyland-Yutani is consistently portrayed as exhibiting the worst aspects of corporate profiteering, willing to sacrifice decency and life in the endless pursuit of profits."
yongjik 10y ago
Wouldn't that require SpaceX being able to make profit exploring Mars? Somehow I don't see it happening in 100 years. And by the time it does, I'm sure there will be competitors.
- btilly 10y ago
  Musk's road map is for SpaceX to make a profit colonizing Mars. Starting within the next 10 years. (Musk himself wants to be a colonist there.) The value proposition is that for a half-million you get to move to Mars, and you can return free if you decide you don't like it. (You still spent the half-million though.) So sell your house, move to Mars.
  - peterwoo 10y ago
    You have to work on building out the colony once you're there too, that's part of the deal. Hard, impossible work.

by j1vms 10y ago

bovermyer 10y ago

I dunno, if it gets us off this rock, I'd be willing to put up with a Weyland-Yutani.

exit 10y ago
because you want immense suffering to expand outward undefinitely, instead of being confined to one dot where there's a hopeful chance of it being put out?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- deedubaya 10y ago
  > immense suffering to expand outward undefinitely Reminded me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0O5h4enjrHw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0O5h4enjrHw around the 2:30 mark.
- blacksmith_tb 10y ago
  Certainly one possible way human suffering might be "put out" on this pale blue dot is by the extinction of H. sapiens, either by our killing ourselves off, or by some kind of serious natural catastrophe (large meteorite strike, supervolcano, etc.). So I'd suggest that it would be better to colonize the solar system before we make whatever developmental leaps that could let us transcend suffering. Otherwise we may never get the chance.
  - exit 10y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinatalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinatalism
  - peterwoo 10y ago
    Humans killing ourselves / extinction events are incredibly unlikely over the time frame that SpaceX will exist for. They're also easier to survive or avoid than it would be to colonize Mars. Except maybe surviving a gamma ray burst -- but who knows, since it looks pretty impossible for humans to colonize a planet. On the other hand we have a chance to save the tens of billions of people who will live and die in the 21st century and experience genocide, starvation, disease, child abuse, imprisonment, other violence, etc. We're already doing it -- it's achievable. It can't wait for a Mars colony!
    - exit 10y ago
      > On the other hand we have a chance to save the tens of billions of people who will live and die in the 21st century and experience genocide, starvation, disease, child abuse, imprisonment, other violence, etc. We're already doing it -- it's achievable. It can't wait for a Mars colony! i don't follow. why do you think those horrible things wouldn't happen on an extraterrestrial colony?
      - peterwoo 10y ago
        I don't think we should put any resources into colonization activities right now. In case it's unclear, I'm agreeing with you and responding to blacksmith_tb's suggestion that "it would be better to colonize the solar system before we make whatever developmental leaps could let us transcend suffering".
        bovermyer 10y ago
        It sounds like you have much more faith in the longevity of Earth as a viable life-supporting planet than I do. I'd love to see what data you're looking at that supports such optimism.

marze 10y ago

If Mars "secedes", I'm sure looking forward to a possible real life battle of worlds, something thus far only enjoyed through scifi and games.

samstave 10y ago
How do you expect me to feed these five mouths?
- logfromblammo 10y ago
  What happened to the other one, Benny?
api 10y ago
If that happens we better hope it never escalates to physical conflict at any scale. Google "hypervelocity kinetic weapon" then factor in that adding a hydrogen bomb warhead wouldn't be much harder and would give it that much more punch. Have fun deflecting an inbound going 500k mph. Interplanetary war between players that advanced would be a really fast path to extinction.
aerovistae 10y ago
Laughable. What would they fight over? I love sci-fi too, but let's be realistic. If Musk succeeds, and I believe he will, it will still be quite a long time, possibly hundreds of years, before there's any notable population on Mars beyond a single city. They won't have any resources we don't have here, aside from Martian tourist trinkets, and the cost of getting resources from Mars to Earth would defeat any potential profit anyone could make. Musk has said this more than once. In scifi, this plot flaw is usually undone by having the alien planet possess a resource that can't be found or made anywhere else, like Avatar's unobtainium or Dune's Melange. But in the real world, that's not a thing. If we're not fighting over resources, then what? So what if the Martian colonists declare independence? Independence from who, anyway? "Earth"? Because it won't be an extension of any existing country, it won't just be "US territory on Mars." It'll be its own entity, with inhabitants from a variety of the countries on Earth. And it's not like Earth is going to be demanding "tribute" from it, that makes no sense on any level. In Heinlein's "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress," the Earth demands grain shipments from the Moon to feed its overgrown population. But....is that likely, really? Are we really likely to be dependent on grain shipments from Mars? It's a fun scenario, but I doubt it. It seems more likely to me that they'll find ways to scale grain production with existing land, as they have done for decades and continue to do today.

maerF0x0 10y ago

For those, like me, who didnt know the reference: http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Weyland-Yutani http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Weyland-Yutani i believe the point was: "Weyland-Yutani is consistently portrayed as exhibiting the worst aspects of corporate profiteering, willing to sacrifice decency and life in the endless pursuit of profits."

yongjik 10y ago

Wouldn't that require SpaceX being able to make profit exploring Mars? Somehow I don't see it happening in 100 years. And by the time it does, I'm sure there will be competitors.

btilly 10y ago
Musk's road map is for SpaceX to make a profit colonizing Mars. Starting within the next 10 years. (Musk himself wants to be a colonist there.) The value proposition is that for a half-million you get to move to Mars, and you can return free if you decide you don't like it. (You still spent the half-million though.) So sell your house, move to Mars.
- peterwoo 10y ago
  You have to work on building out the colony once you're there too, that's part of the deal. Hard, impossible work.