6 ms·

Leaked Postmates financials suggest company might be doing better than thought

71 points by joshjkim 10y ago

dublinben 10y ago
"Leaked" financial information that reflects positively on the company isn't leaked at all. It was deliberately released by someone internal.
- zbowling 10y ago
  Nah. This looks like a legit leak. There is no sane reason to do leak that. You are just validating the market for your competitors. Your investors are going to already have this data.
  - sixQuarks 10y ago
    How do you know what a legit leak looks like? It's certainly suspicious that this "leaked" shortly after some negative sentiment on "Uber"-like services.
  - forgetsusername 10y ago
    >"There is no sane reason to do leak that "nearly $500 million valuation. They are now in the process of raising new funding" That's the reason. Positive buzz. Are you of the opinion that all these VCs and investors are geniuses that do intense due diligence? Or do they herd follow into what turn out to be terrible businesses (note: not saying Postmates necessarily is) all the time? I'm certainly in the camp of the latter.
  - oh_sigh 10y ago
    What about secondary markets? Someone looking to dump their shares could use that to help drive prices up
- edgyswingset 10y ago
  > It was deliberately released by someone internal. I dunno. If delivery employees know that the company is doing well, they might start demanding better pay.
  - rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
    I suspect this factor is the likeliest explanation for the leak. Investors would have access to financials anyway and I can't think of what benefit it would bring to corporate employees.
- codemac 10y ago
  If it were a public company, I'd agree with you. I don't think the motivations are the same for a private company as they have direct lines of communication with all of their investors.
  - hoop 10y ago
    If it were a public company, they wouldn't have to leak their financials. It would already be public.
    - zeroxfe 10y ago
      They're public only on quarterly boundaries. Leaks prior to the reports tend to be quite valuable to investors/speculators.
      - hoop 10y ago
        The article states quite clearly that the numbers that were allegedly leaked to them are from last fall.
  - ilyaeck 10y ago
    Press reports are often perceived with more credibility than direct communication. And yes - this can be exploited to run the buzz machine.
a_small_island 10y ago
"The files, dated last fall, show a glimpse at Postmates’ rapid growth" "We’ve also obtained more recent numbers that suggest that the growth has continued." I'm confused. Why wouldn't they release the most recent numbers if they have them. This read like a press statement, fwiw.
- forgetsusername 10y ago
  Exactly. Apparently they have the data, but they're saying things like "might be this", or "suggests that". You have the paperwork, how about you tell us what the numbers actually say? Or is the financial literacy so lacking in the Valley that a mainstream tech blog can't figure these things out from the financials?
cehrnrooth 10y ago
I'm impressed by their plan to 5X their top-line in one year and improve their margin at the same time (which would indicate either raising prices or reducing subsidies).
- swyman 10y ago
  Or getting more API partners or converting more suppliers to use the sponsored/promoted placement within the app. And 5x top-line growth in a year isn't completely crazy at all for a growth-stage startup of Postmates's size. Aside from normal organic/word-of-mouth and paid growth, they can also launch in new markets.
pbreit 10y ago
What are the "Salaries" under the Operational Expenses?
- BukhariH 10y ago
  I think those are the founders, developers and other central team member salaries since their couriers are 1099 contractors.
deleted 10y ago
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panic 10y ago
If Postmates wants to keep doing well, they need to improve their customer service. A restaurant significantly overcharged me (or the driver bought dinner for himself?) and they wouldn't refund any of it. There are tons of similar comments on the app.
- calebio 10y ago
  I agree. Their customer support has declined significantly over the years due to what I assume to be growth and scaling pains. Then again, their early support methods included a live phone operator. However, it's still no excuse for what they have today. Their support, in my experience, is often lackluster at best and requires the consumer to basically beg for a resolution. I love Postmates and will continue to use them, but competitors like Doordash who have awesome customer service[0] continue to woo me over to their side. [0] - Had a bad delivery yesterday.. their support flow to select exactly what was wrong and what I wanted done about it (bring me new item, refund me, other).
  - nefitty 10y ago
    I had my first bad experience yesterday. There was a big traffic accident and my order ended up taking over an hour. A cs rep called me to apologize and explain the situation and gave me the whole order for free. I didn't expect that at all. Plus, the sandwich was extra delicious and still warm. They pretty much won my lifetime loyalty with that one $15 gesture.
- bastian 10y ago
  Postmates co-founder here. That is a sentiment and an observation i totally agree with. We're working hard to get this done and we're seeing some first positive signs. It will likely take us a good part of Q2 to get where we want to be though. It is a challenging aspect to our business but i'm 100% confident that we will succeed in making our CS interactions more meaningful and rewarding. I should point out that we're really talking about two types of customer service experiences here. When it comes to our Plus merchants, we're facing way less challenges simply because we're interacting with them via tablets or electronic ordering. Where we don't succeed yet, is the customer service part of our Anywhere product. Here we don't have integrations with all merchants and the error rates are higher and so is the level of complexity when something goes wrong.
makmanalp 10y ago
Not to be that guy, but isn't this one case where we need to question the ethics of reporting on leaked documents? Especially when the files themselves seem to be leaked only to Techcrunch. So the cat isn't out of the bag yet, and there really is no public interest / whistleblowing that TC is serving when they post numbers here. Seems sketchy at best to me. Unless they were "leaked" deliberately, which isn't much better, but for different reasons.
icedchai 10y ago
Isn't this the place with the CEO that doesn't know how to use email? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/16/bastian-lehmann_n_3935802.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/16/bastian-lehmann_n_3...
drudru11 10y ago
Hmmm. Just today Amazon announced their starting to support San Francisco with 1 hour restaurant delivery for Prime customers.
palakchokshi 10y ago
So let's get this straight. 1. There was negative pressure on PostMates' business model sustainability 2. Speculation that the numbers didn't work 3. PostMates is in the process of raising new funding 4. It is in PostMates' best interest to get a positive news buzz going about its business model and numbers to raise valuation of the company in a new round of funding. 5. Financials are "leaked" that show the numbers look better than expected. (Thank you TechCrunch) 6. New round of funding is closed at a higher valuation than what it would have been if these documents were not "leaked" (Speculation based on how investors follow herd mentality) 7. PostMates founders do a high five (Speculation on my part) 8. Mission Accomplished
- SilasX 10y ago
  I guess if you don't pay for the journalism, you shouldn't expect them to provide services like "not being a propaganda mouthpiece". Not trying to single out TechCrunch; it's a major public goods problem that was solved pre-internet by the difficulty of copying newspapers, so companies could profit by doing thorough research and fact-checking. I hope they solve it by some kind of "one payment, all-you-can-eat, payout-in-proportion-to-views" system.
- caseysoftware 10y ago
  Additionally, if you want to freak out the competition & their investors and leave them wondering, this is one approach. :)
- philfrasty 10y ago
  There was the same "horrible" thing going on with Uber's financials a while back. The last sentence by TechCrunch back then "...If the readings....are correct though, Uber is in fantastic shape...". PR nicely done. [1] http://techcrunch.com/2013/12/04/leaked-uber-numbers-which-weve-confirmed-point-to-over-1b-gross-revenue-213m-revenue/ http://techcrunch.com/2013/12/04/leaked-uber-numbers-which-w...
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deleted 10y ago
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downandout 10y ago
This is admittedly anecdotal, but they seem to be driving at least some of their growth through dodgy tactics. Last time I stayed in a Vegas hotel, I went down in the morning and found a Postmates flyer on my car encouraging me to use their service while I was in town. I'm fairly certain that no large casino would give them permission to do this. If they are doing this kind of thing in cities everywhere, I can see them growing pretty fast, as long as no one sues them or otherwise stops their "growth hacking" plans.
rdl 10y ago
I'm curious how far one could go toward leaking false information.

71 points by joshjkim 10y ago

"Leaked" financial information that reflects positively on the company isn't leaked at all. It was deliberately released by someone internal.

zbowling 10y ago
Nah. This looks like a legit leak. There is no sane reason to do leak that. You are just validating the market for your competitors. Your investors are going to already have this data.
- sixQuarks 10y ago
  How do you know what a legit leak looks like? It's certainly suspicious that this "leaked" shortly after some negative sentiment on "Uber"-like services.
- forgetsusername 10y ago
  >"There is no sane reason to do leak that "nearly $500 million valuation. They are now in the process of raising new funding" That's the reason. Positive buzz. Are you of the opinion that all these VCs and investors are geniuses that do intense due diligence? Or do they herd follow into what turn out to be terrible businesses (note: not saying Postmates necessarily is) all the time? I'm certainly in the camp of the latter.
- oh_sigh 10y ago
  What about secondary markets? Someone looking to dump their shares could use that to help drive prices up
edgyswingset 10y ago
> It was deliberately released by someone internal. I dunno. If delivery employees know that the company is doing well, they might start demanding better pay.
- rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
  I suspect this factor is the likeliest explanation for the leak. Investors would have access to financials anyway and I can't think of what benefit it would bring to corporate employees.
codemac 10y ago
If it were a public company, I'd agree with you. I don't think the motivations are the same for a private company as they have direct lines of communication with all of their investors.
- hoop 10y ago
  If it were a public company, they wouldn't have to leak their financials. It would already be public.
  - zeroxfe 10y ago
    They're public only on quarterly boundaries. Leaks prior to the reports tend to be quite valuable to investors/speculators.
    - hoop 10y ago
      The article states quite clearly that the numbers that were allegedly leaked to them are from last fall.
- ilyaeck 10y ago
  Press reports are often perceived with more credibility than direct communication. And yes - this can be exploited to run the buzz machine.

a_small_island 10y ago

"The files, dated last fall, show a glimpse at Postmates’ rapid growth" "We’ve also obtained more recent numbers that suggest that the growth has continued." I'm confused. Why wouldn't they release the most recent numbers if they have them. This read like a press statement, fwiw.

forgetsusername 10y ago
Exactly. Apparently they have the data, but they're saying things like "might be this", or "suggests that". You have the paperwork, how about you tell us what the numbers actually say? Or is the financial literacy so lacking in the Valley that a mainstream tech blog can't figure these things out from the financials?

cehrnrooth 10y ago

I'm impressed by their plan to 5X their top-line in one year and improve their margin at the same time (which would indicate either raising prices or reducing subsidies).

swyman 10y ago
Or getting more API partners or converting more suppliers to use the sponsored/promoted placement within the app. And 5x top-line growth in a year isn't completely crazy at all for a growth-stage startup of Postmates's size. Aside from normal organic/word-of-mouth and paid growth, they can also launch in new markets.

pbreit 10y ago

What are the "Salaries" under the Operational Expenses?

BukhariH 10y ago
I think those are the founders, developers and other central team member salaries since their couriers are 1099 contractors.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

panic 10y ago

If Postmates wants to keep doing well, they need to improve their customer service. A restaurant significantly overcharged me (or the driver bought dinner for himself?) and they wouldn't refund any of it. There are tons of similar comments on the app.

calebio 10y ago
I agree. Their customer support has declined significantly over the years due to what I assume to be growth and scaling pains. Then again, their early support methods included a live phone operator. However, it's still no excuse for what they have today. Their support, in my experience, is often lackluster at best and requires the consumer to basically beg for a resolution. I love Postmates and will continue to use them, but competitors like Doordash who have awesome customer service[0] continue to woo me over to their side. [0] - Had a bad delivery yesterday.. their support flow to select exactly what was wrong and what I wanted done about it (bring me new item, refund me, other).
- nefitty 10y ago
  I had my first bad experience yesterday. There was a big traffic accident and my order ended up taking over an hour. A cs rep called me to apologize and explain the situation and gave me the whole order for free. I didn't expect that at all. Plus, the sandwich was extra delicious and still warm. They pretty much won my lifetime loyalty with that one $15 gesture.
bastian 10y ago
Postmates co-founder here. That is a sentiment and an observation i totally agree with. We're working hard to get this done and we're seeing some first positive signs. It will likely take us a good part of Q2 to get where we want to be though. It is a challenging aspect to our business but i'm 100% confident that we will succeed in making our CS interactions more meaningful and rewarding. I should point out that we're really talking about two types of customer service experiences here. When it comes to our Plus merchants, we're facing way less challenges simply because we're interacting with them via tablets or electronic ordering. Where we don't succeed yet, is the customer service part of our Anywhere product. Here we don't have integrations with all merchants and the error rates are higher and so is the level of complexity when something goes wrong.

makmanalp 10y ago

Not to be that guy, but isn't this one case where we need to question the ethics of reporting on leaked documents? Especially when the files themselves seem to be leaked only to Techcrunch. So the cat isn't out of the bag yet, and there really is no public interest / whistleblowing that TC is serving when they post numbers here. Seems sketchy at best to me. Unless they were "leaked" deliberately, which isn't much better, but for different reasons.

icedchai 10y ago

Isn't this the place with the CEO that doesn't know how to use email? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/16/bastian-lehmann_n_3935802.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/16/bastian-lehmann_n_3...

drudru11 10y ago

Hmmm. Just today Amazon announced their starting to support San Francisco with 1 hour restaurant delivery for Prime customers.

palakchokshi 10y ago

So let's get this straight. 1. There was negative pressure on PostMates' business model sustainability 2. Speculation that the numbers didn't work 3. PostMates is in the process of raising new funding 4. It is in PostMates' best interest to get a positive news buzz going about its business model and numbers to raise valuation of the company in a new round of funding. 5. Financials are "leaked" that show the numbers look better than expected. (Thank you TechCrunch) 6. New round of funding is closed at a higher valuation than what it would have been if these documents were not "leaked" (Speculation based on how investors follow herd mentality) 7. PostMates founders do a high five (Speculation on my part) 8. Mission Accomplished

SilasX 10y ago
I guess if you don't pay for the journalism, you shouldn't expect them to provide services like "not being a propaganda mouthpiece". Not trying to single out TechCrunch; it's a major public goods problem that was solved pre-internet by the difficulty of copying newspapers, so companies could profit by doing thorough research and fact-checking. I hope they solve it by some kind of "one payment, all-you-can-eat, payout-in-proportion-to-views" system.
caseysoftware 10y ago
Additionally, if you want to freak out the competition & their investors and leave them wondering, this is one approach. :)
philfrasty 10y ago
There was the same "horrible" thing going on with Uber's financials a while back. The last sentence by TechCrunch back then "...If the readings....are correct though, Uber is in fantastic shape...". PR nicely done. [1] http://techcrunch.com/2013/12/04/leaked-uber-numbers-which-weve-confirmed-point-to-over-1b-gross-revenue-213m-revenue/ http://techcrunch.com/2013/12/04/leaked-uber-numbers-which-w...
- deleted 10y ago
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deleted 10y ago

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downandout 10y ago

This is admittedly anecdotal, but they seem to be driving at least some of their growth through dodgy tactics. Last time I stayed in a Vegas hotel, I went down in the morning and found a Postmates flyer on my car encouraging me to use their service while I was in town. I'm fairly certain that no large casino would give them permission to do this. If they are doing this kind of thing in cities everywhere, I can see them growing pretty fast, as long as no one sues them or otherwise stops their "growth hacking" plans.

rdl 10y ago

I'm curious how far one could go toward leaking false information.