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Ask HN: Why do we still follow the 'Folder' metaphor?
I've noticed that I often have files that feel like they would be equally fitting in one of several folders, and it's easy to forget where I've put them; so I resort to searching. I understand that it would be difficult to completely get rid of the folder metaphor, but why aren't there any tag based file browsers?
- fragmede 17y agohttp://wiki.github.com/marook/tagfs/demo http://wiki.github.com/marook/tagfs/demo It needs to have its corners rounded and rough edges smoothed out if you were looking for an easy solution, but it's there.
- telemachos 17y agoWell, in a way, doesn't Apple's Spotlight provide a kind of tag/search based file system? For what it's worth, my answer to your actual question is that for a large number of people and cases, the folder metaphor works well. You have individual items (files, pictures, songs, etc.) which belong in one bin. When you want that item, you open that bin. It's a real-life scenario that we all make use of every day (consider a refrigerator or a drawer with clothing, for example) I'm not saying it's perfect, and certainly it would often be better or easier to be able to say "show me all the files that are (1) in Ruby and (2) have a certain method name" rather than "show me all the files in this bin." But folders are not too complex and cover a lot of essential cases.
- theschwa 17y agoIt works well until you have things that don't just fit in one bin. The folder metaphor has worked fine for me until I started getting enough files that they were harder to find. (Is that song in my blues folder or jazz? Is that photo in the Family folder or GroupShots) I understand that it would be hard to completely remove folders, but it would be nice to have the option to use tags for those of us with over growing file collections.
- jmonegro 17y agoWindows 7's Libraries address this exact problem.
- ElliotH 17y agoThe problem is this needs to be an change throughout an operating system or it doesn't work. I know there have been userspace file system projects for Linux systems that have attempted the tagging system, but none have really become mainstream. Gnome seems to be going in the direction of time-pased file sorting which is another non-folder oriented way of thinking. On the Apple side I think they really want their users to be searching in preference to tagging. Microsoft had a go with Windows 7, but obviously they want users to be able to upgrade their old operating system making it impractical to make it a global default. But the other thing to consider is 'Cloud' computing, a lot of online services (eg Google's) use tagging rather than a folder modal. This means if software moves more online/browser based we'll see tag-based systems emerge naturally. Edit: Fixed some typos
- noss 17y agoI'm a big fan of tags, and I would argue that we are giving up the folder metaphor, it is just happening online first (tags was a big part of "web 2.0" sites, gmail's labels, using google to find files based on keywords, etc). The location where files are stored is where tags are a bit awkward. The folders are clear there. It's easy with folders to copy a picture from an SD card to my hard drive. From hd to a network mount. The alternative would be to have magical tags, so everything you gave the 'hd' tag to, it would be stored on your hd. In fact, the whole concept of adding a storage device to the system is strange with tags. Mount a 1Tb network share and automatic indexing starts? A standardized format for storing tag-information? What about computers that just change files directly without updating the tags? What about incompatible formats? I wonder if applications could do a better job at tagging up files they create compared to the approach (in apple spotlight) to have search engine plugins that can find tags based on file content (mp3 id data, jpeg exif data,...). If applications were more tag-aware, they could at least allow you to browse your files by tags instead of by folders.
- theschwa 17y agoI think you've addressed something pretty important. There is a difference between where something is stored and what is being stored. My issue with the folder metaphor is that it assumes those two are related when it reality they can be completely decoupled. Choose to save the file either on HD, external drive, or online, then choose how to find it, tags.
- keefe 17y agoI see it as a totally different model. I don't particularly want my files to be stored by tags. I keep a very organized repository of all my stuff. If I want music I go to media/music if I want code I'm working on I'll go to code/projects or stuff I'm not I'll go to code/legacyprojects etc. Directory structures have hierarchy, traditional tag systems do not.
- radu_floricica 17y agoI think some file systems at least aren't as incompatible with this idea as one would think. In linux (all fs?) one has hard-links, which pretty much decouple the file from its location. And from what I remember in earlier FATs, you have different mechanisms for file management and location management (File Allocation Tables for file management, and special directory files over it). As to why there is no application to take advantage of it... maybe because it requires too much mind-bending. Most people stay as far away as possible from hard links. When you delete a file you want it deleted, not just "not here anymore".