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one of the problems with grappling that BJJ doesn't address is that in many holds your opponent has the opportunity to stab you if they have a knife/shiv etc.

one of the problems with grappling that BJJ doesn't address is that in many holds your opponent has the opportunity to stab you if they have a knife/shiv etc. this is most apparent in rear chokes. real self defense is not at all glamorous which is why it doesn't have the market that martial arts does. typically you're crushing or breaking something as fast as possible and then RUNNING. I remember I was particularly impressed by one krav maga instructor who had the students spin in circles and then have another student blindside them before they knew what was happening. he also later had us get attacked from behind while sitting in a chair. of course we all looked like idiots and it wasn't very pleasant. several students complained. they just wanted to look like ninjas.

joe_the_user 17y ago
"typically you're crushing or breaking something as fast as possible and then RUNNING" Typically, you're avoiding without getting involved. Occasionally, you're facing someone down or pushing someone away as quickly as possible and then running. Breaking bones? Is that something you expect to do easily? Also, if you manage to get one mega-pain-inflicting blow in mugging type situation, you might give the guy and his friends much more impetus to chase and injure you. -- Before learning martial arts was mugged a couple of times. Despite the fact that they assaulted me, they were aiming for money. If I'd injured one guy before they got me on the ground and snitched my wallet, I might have been facing considerably more injuries. Sure, there's lots of attitude in martial arts but I think the "this is the REAL WORLD and we fight DIRTY" folks have as much of this attitude as the wanna-be ninjas.
- ryanelkins 17y ago
  Ideally you want to avoid any confrontation. We were taught things like if you get into an altercation (non physical) it's best just to leave because that guy that stormed off might just be looking for a weapon or friends or liquid bravery. If someone wants to mug you give them your money. If they want your car give them your keys. No one gets into a fight unless they feel pretty confident about winning - maybe it's because they are much bigger than you or maybe its because they have a knife, a gun, or 4 friends. It's generally better to not find out which. That being said, if you do end up having to defend yourself we were taught to disable them then back away quickly. Ideally, don't turn your back to them and run. The only thing I'd really be aiming to break is their will to get back up and come at me.
- nazgulnarsil 17y ago
  avoidance is a whole separate thing. sure you may talk about it in your martial arts class, but the majority of your time is spent learning about what to do when it fails yes? I'm just ignoring the avoidance scenarios. in a mugging type situation you hand over your wallet. in an imminent death situation yes you do aim for eyes, breaking bones etc. and yes, it is easy to break bones with certain holds, so much so that accidentally breaking them is a genuine concern in class. properly applied joint locks are pretty nasty. basing your arguments on counterfactuals seems kind of silly. things always could have been worse. the point is to minimize your risk of grievous bodily injury or death.

joe_the_user 17y ago

"typically you're crushing or breaking something as fast as possible and then RUNNING" Typically, you're avoiding without getting involved. Occasionally, you're facing someone down or pushing someone away as quickly as possible and then running. Breaking bones? Is that something you expect to do easily? Also, if you manage to get one mega-pain-inflicting blow in mugging type situation, you might give the guy and his friends much more impetus to chase and injure you. -- Before learning martial arts was mugged a couple of times. Despite the fact that they assaulted me, they were aiming for money. If I'd injured one guy before they got me on the ground and snitched my wallet, I might have been facing considerably more injuries. Sure, there's lots of attitude in martial arts but I think the "this is the REAL WORLD and we fight DIRTY" folks have as much of this attitude as the wanna-be ninjas.

ryanelkins 17y ago
Ideally you want to avoid any confrontation. We were taught things like if you get into an altercation (non physical) it's best just to leave because that guy that stormed off might just be looking for a weapon or friends or liquid bravery. If someone wants to mug you give them your money. If they want your car give them your keys. No one gets into a fight unless they feel pretty confident about winning - maybe it's because they are much bigger than you or maybe its because they have a knife, a gun, or 4 friends. It's generally better to not find out which. That being said, if you do end up having to defend yourself we were taught to disable them then back away quickly. Ideally, don't turn your back to them and run. The only thing I'd really be aiming to break is their will to get back up and come at me.
nazgulnarsil 17y ago
avoidance is a whole separate thing. sure you may talk about it in your martial arts class, but the majority of your time is spent learning about what to do when it fails yes? I'm just ignoring the avoidance scenarios. in a mugging type situation you hand over your wallet. in an imminent death situation yes you do aim for eyes, breaking bones etc. and yes, it is easy to break bones with certain holds, so much so that accidentally breaking them is a genuine concern in class. properly applied joint locks are pretty nasty. basing your arguments on counterfactuals seems kind of silly. things always could have been worse. the point is to minimize your risk of grievous bodily injury or death.