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I study Krav Maga. I prefer a practical self defense oriented approach. It is the system developed by and taught to the Israeli military. Moves are generally ve

I study Krav Maga. I prefer a practical self defense oriented approach. It is the system developed by and taught to the Israeli military. Moves are generally very simple (important so you can be effective without years of training). The problem with pretty much all other martial arts everyone is mentioning is that they have morphed to work ideally in a competitive environment. Sure, knowing just about any martial art will give you a huge advantage against someone who isn't skilled but there are alot of things people just don't train for with BJJ, Tae Kwon Do, etc. For example, one of the first things we learned is defending yourself from various holds and chokes. The first move, after securing your throat or loosening their grip is generally to hit them in the balls. This is one example of something most martial arts won't teach you because that's generally "against the rules", however, in a self defense scenario, there are no rules (there are however laws that you may break so keep that in mind). You really want to avoid going to the ground if at all possible. It just makes you more vulnerable if anyone else decides to jump in and you never know what you're rolling around on. Besides, what are you going to do, put someone in a submission until help arrives? A really effective way to break a hold is to grab their pinky and twist it in a direction it doesn't want to go. If they don't let go just move on to new fingers. Also, feel free to bite them. Hard. You can also pull hair, gouge eyes, fishhook, etc. It's great to know how to defend yourself on the ground, but you want to be on the ground as little as possible as it can be a dangerous place because your opponent is probably not playing under the same rules you are. If you want more of a philosophy then it's probably not right for you. This is pretty much just about winning fights when it matters the most.

nazgulnarsil 17y ago
one of the problems with grappling that BJJ doesn't address is that in many holds your opponent has the opportunity to stab you if they have a knife/shiv etc. this is most apparent in rear chokes. real self defense is not at all glamorous which is why it doesn't have the market that martial arts does. typically you're crushing or breaking something as fast as possible and then RUNNING. I remember I was particularly impressed by one krav maga instructor who had the students spin in circles and then have another student blindside them before they knew what was happening. he also later had us get attacked from behind while sitting in a chair. of course we all looked like idiots and it wasn't very pleasant. several students complained. they just wanted to look like ninjas.
- joe_the_user 17y ago
  "typically you're crushing or breaking something as fast as possible and then RUNNING" Typically, you're avoiding without getting involved. Occasionally, you're facing someone down or pushing someone away as quickly as possible and then running. Breaking bones? Is that something you expect to do easily? Also, if you manage to get one mega-pain-inflicting blow in mugging type situation, you might give the guy and his friends much more impetus to chase and injure you. -- Before learning martial arts was mugged a couple of times. Despite the fact that they assaulted me, they were aiming for money. If I'd injured one guy before they got me on the ground and snitched my wallet, I might have been facing considerably more injuries. Sure, there's lots of attitude in martial arts but I think the "this is the REAL WORLD and we fight DIRTY" folks have as much of this attitude as the wanna-be ninjas.
  - ryanelkins 17y ago
    Ideally you want to avoid any confrontation. We were taught things like if you get into an altercation (non physical) it's best just to leave because that guy that stormed off might just be looking for a weapon or friends or liquid bravery. If someone wants to mug you give them your money. If they want your car give them your keys. No one gets into a fight unless they feel pretty confident about winning - maybe it's because they are much bigger than you or maybe its because they have a knife, a gun, or 4 friends. It's generally better to not find out which. That being said, if you do end up having to defend yourself we were taught to disable them then back away quickly. Ideally, don't turn your back to them and run. The only thing I'd really be aiming to break is their will to get back up and come at me.
  - nazgulnarsil 17y ago
    avoidance is a whole separate thing. sure you may talk about it in your martial arts class, but the majority of your time is spent learning about what to do when it fails yes? I'm just ignoring the avoidance scenarios. in a mugging type situation you hand over your wallet. in an imminent death situation yes you do aim for eyes, breaking bones etc. and yes, it is easy to break bones with certain holds, so much so that accidentally breaking them is a genuine concern in class. properly applied joint locks are pretty nasty. basing your arguments on counterfactuals seems kind of silly. things always could have been worse. the point is to minimize your risk of grievous bodily injury or death.
Estragon 17y ago
I found American Jiu Jitsu to have a similarly practical orientation.
- lmkg 17y ago
  Jiu-Jitsu is one of the more practical martial arts, since it's much closer to its street-fighting origins. Krav Maga stretches the definition of 'martial art' for some people, because of its focus on practicality, lack of formal competitions, and complete disregard for the safety of the person you're attacking. Jiu-Jitsu has the sometimes-useful property of generally being less-than-lethal, although the majority of the techniques have a high chance of causing lasting, sometimes permanent, damage. In terms of relations to programming: Krav Maga has a heavy focus on edge cases, and a "good enough" philosophy. Jiu-Jitsu focuses on perfecting a smaller number of core cases.
philwelch 17y ago
Heh, that reminded me of this practical self defense oriented approach: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2REG3-Wb5gM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2REG3-Wb5gM "First you're going to want to get wrist control. Then, you pull out your gun."
- joe_the_user 17y ago
  You get that the video is comedy, no? Aikido gets a lot of bad press but it's worth remembering that comes from Aki-Jujitsu, which was created to allow armed samurai to gain control of unarmed opponents. It seem pretty obvious that if you've got a gun, you should put yourself in a position where you're wrestling with your opponent - keep them at the minimum at arm's length. I've heard that why Akido uses straight-arm throws. Walking the city armed for real is pretty literally looking for trouble anyway.
  - philwelch 17y ago
    I get that it's comedy. Actually, if you've got a gun you want to stay about 20 feet away from your assailant. They've done tests on reaction time, and someone inside of 20 feet can easily close and attack with a knife by the time you draw your gun. Conversely, if you have balls of steel and want to defend yourself against an armed assailant, start within 20 feet and have a knife. Corollary: be capable of hitting a target at greater than 20 feet range. (Not difficult but requires practice.) There's something to be said for concealed weapons as a self defense technique--it's among the easiest to learn and the most effective. A month of firearms training can defeat someone with years of training in traditional weapons (which is kind of the reason militaries switched to firearms in the first place). Awareness, keeping your distance, and not getting into dangerous situations in the first place are most of what you need. If you're focused on winning a fight at all you're not focused on effective self defense. There are a lot of good reasons to get into martial arts, but being able to win street fights isn't one of them.
    - Zak 17y ago
      I went through law enforcement training (though never ended up working in law enforcement) in Florida a few years ago. One of the firearms drills was to draw and fire two shots from the hip while blocking with the weak hand at 9 feet in 2 seconds. It was intended to simulate exactly that sort of scenario. The outcome of a gun/knife confrontation at short range is not at all certain. Most wounds from a knife or handgun are not instantly incapacitating, and are often survivable. I would tend to bet on the person with a gun, but both are likely to be injured.
joe_the_user 17y ago
I've studied a couple martial arts and had brief introductions to a number of others (Systema and Qi Dao are the two I've done for a while). Every art I've seen teaches getting out of holds first because it is something a novice can do pretty easily with some understanding of technique. I've also been hit in the balls during sparing matches a number of times. It's not the decisive hit many imagine. In fact, a strong solar plexis shot was much more effective in my personal experience. A lot of "real world" martial arts teach about "disabling" shots that their practitioners never get to seriously try because they are, at least intended to be, truly crippling. Yet that means that in the "real world", when assaulted, you are trying to do something you've never previously done in the same fashion. For that reason, I think that "competition" based martial arts certainly can be at least as good for "real world" defense. The tactics used in MMA matches would work good in the real world - with the proviso to avoid fights and avoid the ground as much as possible. If anyone wants to debate these issues in gruesome detail, look at http://bullshido.net http://bullshido.net . There's plenty of attitude there but it's a group of folks who've worked pretty hard sorting out bs from effective martial arts.
- kingkongreveng_ 17y ago
  > when assaulted, you are trying to do something "Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face." --Mike Tyson
  - joe_the_user 17y ago
    Actually, that's another problem with a lot of martial arts that teach particular actions for particular situations. One's ability to remember an complex technique or even a simple move in the middle of a conflict somewhat ... hampered. Of course, any serious martial art is going to teach stance, balance, "flow", and state of mind as well as particular techniques. The applies to all the arts I've had minimal exposure to: BJJ, Muy Thai, Tai Chi, Aikido. I don't know if this applies to Krav Maga or not - I can only know what the KM people talk about. I'm skeptical of any "too deadly except for da streets" rhetoric from anyone.
- deleted 17y ago
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klodolph 17y ago
Krav Maga is pretty cool, but I wouldn't call it a "martial art". There are no aesthetics in Krav Maga, no spectators, no tournaments, and no rules. Krav Maga is for people who want to defend themselves efficiently.
- dimitar 17y ago
  Surely then, programming also is not an art. Don Knuth, you are wrong.
metamemetics 17y ago
For practical defense in mugging type situations, one of the biggest things to worry about is KNIVES. This video gives a lot of great points, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFr30p0aZl0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFr30p0aZl0 be sure to watch it to the end and not just the first half.
- ryanelkins 17y ago
  A practical defense to a mugging is really just to give them your money (or avoid places where you might be mugged). Even very skilled people have a high chance of being cut if attacked by someone with a knife. It's just not worth it over your wallet. As for that video - all of that and not a single Shark OR Jet.
zitterbewegung 17y ago
I was taught in hapkido to hit the person in the balls. We weren't allowed to do it in class obviously but we were told that was a valid technique.
- ryanelkins 17y ago
  We practice by hitting high up on the inner thigh. I recommend (and do) wear a cup.
deleted 17y ago
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nazgulnarsil 17y ago

one of the problems with grappling that BJJ doesn't address is that in many holds your opponent has the opportunity to stab you if they have a knife/shiv etc. this is most apparent in rear chokes. real self defense is not at all glamorous which is why it doesn't have the market that martial arts does. typically you're crushing or breaking something as fast as possible and then RUNNING. I remember I was particularly impressed by one krav maga instructor who had the students spin in circles and then have another student blindside them before they knew what was happening. he also later had us get attacked from behind while sitting in a chair. of course we all looked like idiots and it wasn't very pleasant. several students complained. they just wanted to look like ninjas.

joe_the_user 17y ago
"typically you're crushing or breaking something as fast as possible and then RUNNING" Typically, you're avoiding without getting involved. Occasionally, you're facing someone down or pushing someone away as quickly as possible and then running. Breaking bones? Is that something you expect to do easily? Also, if you manage to get one mega-pain-inflicting blow in mugging type situation, you might give the guy and his friends much more impetus to chase and injure you. -- Before learning martial arts was mugged a couple of times. Despite the fact that they assaulted me, they were aiming for money. If I'd injured one guy before they got me on the ground and snitched my wallet, I might have been facing considerably more injuries. Sure, there's lots of attitude in martial arts but I think the "this is the REAL WORLD and we fight DIRTY" folks have as much of this attitude as the wanna-be ninjas.
- ryanelkins 17y ago
  Ideally you want to avoid any confrontation. We were taught things like if you get into an altercation (non physical) it's best just to leave because that guy that stormed off might just be looking for a weapon or friends or liquid bravery. If someone wants to mug you give them your money. If they want your car give them your keys. No one gets into a fight unless they feel pretty confident about winning - maybe it's because they are much bigger than you or maybe its because they have a knife, a gun, or 4 friends. It's generally better to not find out which. That being said, if you do end up having to defend yourself we were taught to disable them then back away quickly. Ideally, don't turn your back to them and run. The only thing I'd really be aiming to break is their will to get back up and come at me.
- nazgulnarsil 17y ago
  avoidance is a whole separate thing. sure you may talk about it in your martial arts class, but the majority of your time is spent learning about what to do when it fails yes? I'm just ignoring the avoidance scenarios. in a mugging type situation you hand over your wallet. in an imminent death situation yes you do aim for eyes, breaking bones etc. and yes, it is easy to break bones with certain holds, so much so that accidentally breaking them is a genuine concern in class. properly applied joint locks are pretty nasty. basing your arguments on counterfactuals seems kind of silly. things always could have been worse. the point is to minimize your risk of grievous bodily injury or death.

Estragon 17y ago

I found American Jiu Jitsu to have a similarly practical orientation.

lmkg 17y ago
Jiu-Jitsu is one of the more practical martial arts, since it's much closer to its street-fighting origins. Krav Maga stretches the definition of 'martial art' for some people, because of its focus on practicality, lack of formal competitions, and complete disregard for the safety of the person you're attacking. Jiu-Jitsu has the sometimes-useful property of generally being less-than-lethal, although the majority of the techniques have a high chance of causing lasting, sometimes permanent, damage. In terms of relations to programming: Krav Maga has a heavy focus on edge cases, and a "good enough" philosophy. Jiu-Jitsu focuses on perfecting a smaller number of core cases.

philwelch 17y ago

Heh, that reminded me of this practical self defense oriented approach: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2REG3-Wb5gM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2REG3-Wb5gM "First you're going to want to get wrist control. Then, you pull out your gun."

joe_the_user 17y ago
You get that the video is comedy, no? Aikido gets a lot of bad press but it's worth remembering that comes from Aki-Jujitsu, which was created to allow armed samurai to gain control of unarmed opponents. It seem pretty obvious that if you've got a gun, you should put yourself in a position where you're wrestling with your opponent - keep them at the minimum at arm's length. I've heard that why Akido uses straight-arm throws. Walking the city armed for real is pretty literally looking for trouble anyway.
- philwelch 17y ago
  I get that it's comedy. Actually, if you've got a gun you want to stay about 20 feet away from your assailant. They've done tests on reaction time, and someone inside of 20 feet can easily close and attack with a knife by the time you draw your gun. Conversely, if you have balls of steel and want to defend yourself against an armed assailant, start within 20 feet and have a knife. Corollary: be capable of hitting a target at greater than 20 feet range. (Not difficult but requires practice.) There's something to be said for concealed weapons as a self defense technique--it's among the easiest to learn and the most effective. A month of firearms training can defeat someone with years of training in traditional weapons (which is kind of the reason militaries switched to firearms in the first place). Awareness, keeping your distance, and not getting into dangerous situations in the first place are most of what you need. If you're focused on winning a fight at all you're not focused on effective self defense. There are a lot of good reasons to get into martial arts, but being able to win street fights isn't one of them.
  - Zak 17y ago
    I went through law enforcement training (though never ended up working in law enforcement) in Florida a few years ago. One of the firearms drills was to draw and fire two shots from the hip while blocking with the weak hand at 9 feet in 2 seconds. It was intended to simulate exactly that sort of scenario. The outcome of a gun/knife confrontation at short range is not at all certain. Most wounds from a knife or handgun are not instantly incapacitating, and are often survivable. I would tend to bet on the person with a gun, but both are likely to be injured.

joe_the_user 17y ago

I've studied a couple martial arts and had brief introductions to a number of others (Systema and Qi Dao are the two I've done for a while). Every art I've seen teaches getting out of holds first because it is something a novice can do pretty easily with some understanding of technique. I've also been hit in the balls during sparing matches a number of times. It's not the decisive hit many imagine. In fact, a strong solar plexis shot was much more effective in my personal experience. A lot of "real world" martial arts teach about "disabling" shots that their practitioners never get to seriously try because they are, at least intended to be, truly crippling. Yet that means that in the "real world", when assaulted, you are trying to do something you've never previously done in the same fashion. For that reason, I think that "competition" based martial arts certainly can be at least as good for "real world" defense. The tactics used in MMA matches would work good in the real world - with the proviso to avoid fights and avoid the ground as much as possible. If anyone wants to debate these issues in gruesome detail, look at http://bullshido.net http://bullshido.net . There's plenty of attitude there but it's a group of folks who've worked pretty hard sorting out bs from effective martial arts.

kingkongreveng_ 17y ago
> when assaulted, you are trying to do something "Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face." --Mike Tyson
- joe_the_user 17y ago
  Actually, that's another problem with a lot of martial arts that teach particular actions for particular situations. One's ability to remember an complex technique or even a simple move in the middle of a conflict somewhat ... hampered. Of course, any serious martial art is going to teach stance, balance, "flow", and state of mind as well as particular techniques. The applies to all the arts I've had minimal exposure to: BJJ, Muy Thai, Tai Chi, Aikido. I don't know if this applies to Krav Maga or not - I can only know what the KM people talk about. I'm skeptical of any "too deadly except for da streets" rhetoric from anyone.
deleted 17y ago
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klodolph 17y ago

Krav Maga is pretty cool, but I wouldn't call it a "martial art". There are no aesthetics in Krav Maga, no spectators, no tournaments, and no rules. Krav Maga is for people who want to defend themselves efficiently.

dimitar 17y ago
Surely then, programming also is not an art. Don Knuth, you are wrong.

metamemetics 17y ago

For practical defense in mugging type situations, one of the biggest things to worry about is KNIVES. This video gives a lot of great points, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFr30p0aZl0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFr30p0aZl0 be sure to watch it to the end and not just the first half.

ryanelkins 17y ago
A practical defense to a mugging is really just to give them your money (or avoid places where you might be mugged). Even very skilled people have a high chance of being cut if attacked by someone with a knife. It's just not worth it over your wallet. As for that video - all of that and not a single Shark OR Jet.

zitterbewegung 17y ago

I was taught in hapkido to hit the person in the balls. We weren't allowed to do it in class obviously but we were told that was a valid technique.

ryanelkins 17y ago
We practice by hitting high up on the inner thigh. I recommend (and do) wear a cup.

deleted 17y ago

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