6 ms·

- Intel plateaued, no significant user-appreciated progress in the past 5+ years - problems with scalable 10nm, 14nm might be the next 28nm for a while and all

by bitL 11y ago

- Intel plateaued, no significant user-appreciated progress in the past 5+ years - problems with scalable 10nm, 14nm might be the next 28nm for a while and all manufacturers will catch up, obliterating Intel's major advantage - Zen might be sufficiently competitive with older Core chips on performance, power and price, better on GPU side (hopefully not another Barcelona) - all major consoles run on AMD - Polaris vs Pascal - they might survive until 2017 and have cash to produce new chips

ksec 11y ago
Agree, last time the world had any significant CPU performance increase was SandyBridge, and that was the tipping point. Since then we have been using the same CPU performance with less energy usage. Apple already knows this that is why they continue to refine in other areas ( Macbook being a prime example ) rather then providing more and more performance where the user don't need / feel. Interestingly 2011 was also the year SSD were available in not so luxury price. It was the when 64GB dropped to around $100. Anandtech has been calling this as the largest performance upgrade in history. And I would agree you should trade SSD for ANY CPU performance. That is assuming you are not using some more then a decade old CPU or you already have 16+ GB memory. If the rumours are true then it is a combination of things making this a perfect storm ( not sure if that is the right way of putting it). Intel no longer has a significant lead in Fab node processing. The money from Mobile processor has help pure play foundry to catch up big time. Zen would offer significant performance increase that pass what most consider as enough ( for now ), and Intel hasn't had much performance gain with Skylake. Running along is the perfect match of new GPU coming from AMD. Which should be first the time ever AMD has a APU competitive with Intel in performance and run circles around Intel in GPU performance. This sounds all good good for AMD, that is until Intel provides more detail on Goldmont, their next gen Atom. Goldmont, and its Apollo Lake platform, provides all the essential features one would expect for the most common PC user for a very cheap price. Cherry Tail, based on Airmont was already doing well in Surface 3, if Goldmont as rumours suggest provides much higher IPC ( think Core2 Duo like performance rather then SandyBridge ) and comes with Skylake Gen9 GPU along with much cheaper price, this could be a tough battle. Can wait for both to reveal more details, 2016 will be an interesting year for PC.
- tcoppi 11y ago
  I agree, Zen + already great GPU designs from AMD in an APU package could be just what AMD needs right now to regain volume PC sales. I think they might actually have a better chance of succeeding here than in the server space where absolute performance/watt is more valued than in PCs and notebooks, but I still think for AMD to really regain their glory(and profits) they need to have the top performing CPU for a while and let it trickle down to APUs instead of eating scraps at the bottom of the pile like they are now.
- willtim 11y ago
  The state of Skylake software support over the last year for both Linux and Windows (with many Linux issues still unresolved) kills any excitement I might have had for future intel products. To be honest, I'd rather have a slower passively cooled ARM chip, at least then my ultrabook wouldn't sound like a jet engine when some background task kicks in (not to mention battery drain consequences).
  - neverminder 11y ago
    I am excited and it's really not about the speed. Future intel product - Kaby Lake (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaby_Lake https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaby_Lake): - Native USB 3.1 support - 200 Series chipset (Union Point) - Thermal design power (TDP) up to 95 W (LGA 1151) - Support for both DDR3L SDRAM and DDR4 SDRAM in mainstream variants, using custom UniDIMM SO-DIMM form factor - Support for 16 PCI Express 3.0 lanes from CPU, 24 PCI Express 3.0 lanes from PCH (LGA 1151) - Support for Thunderbolt 3 - 64 to 128 MB L4 eDRAM cache on certain SKUs - Up to four cores as the default mainstream configuration - Support for Intel Optane Technology - Full fixed function HEVC Main10/10-bit decoding acceleration & VP9 10-bit decoding acceleration. Biggest point for me is native USB 3.1 (Type-C) support. USB Type-C is is projected to be the most abundant socket in the history of humanity.
    - ksec 11y ago
      HEVC fixed function decoding is also in Applo Lake as well. Along with USB 3.1. So if you don't need much performance, Goldmont, at least on paper now seems to offer the same as Kabylake.
petra 11y ago
>> Intel plateaued, no significant user-appreciated progress in the past 5+ years It's not true. Their 3DXpoint memory offers 10x GB/$ of dram, at a speed relatively close to dram.Leaving aside the huge impact on the storage market - Intel even did an exeriment[1] , taking a 8GB Dram computer and comparing it to a 256Mbte Dram(as cache) + 3DXpoint sitting on the main bus - and they performed equally. If that's true(and 3DXpoint has the reliability for such usecase) - this means Intel could possible own the mobile market - and own the full stack of computing. [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXurTRtmfWc&feature=youtu.be&t=39m25s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXurTRtmfWc&feature=youtu.be...
- chinhodado 11y ago
  Was 3DXpoint released as an actual product in the past 5+ years? I think the post you replied to just talked about progress in actual, released-to-market products, not future R&D that we don't even have a release date for yet.
yvdriess 11y ago
Intel's client computing chips plateaued, but server platforms have kept improving. The volumes might be lower, but the high margins more than make up for it.

by bitL 11y ago

ksec 11y ago

Agree, last time the world had any significant CPU performance increase was SandyBridge, and that was the tipping point. Since then we have been using the same CPU performance with less energy usage. Apple already knows this that is why they continue to refine in other areas ( Macbook being a prime example ) rather then providing more and more performance where the user don't need / feel. Interestingly 2011 was also the year SSD were available in not so luxury price. It was the when 64GB dropped to around $100. Anandtech has been calling this as the largest performance upgrade in history. And I would agree you should trade SSD for ANY CPU performance. That is assuming you are not using some more then a decade old CPU or you already have 16+ GB memory. If the rumours are true then it is a combination of things making this a perfect storm ( not sure if that is the right way of putting it). Intel no longer has a significant lead in Fab node processing. The money from Mobile processor has help pure play foundry to catch up big time. Zen would offer significant performance increase that pass what most consider as enough ( for now ), and Intel hasn't had much performance gain with Skylake. Running along is the perfect match of new GPU coming from AMD. Which should be first the time ever AMD has a APU competitive with Intel in performance and run circles around Intel in GPU performance. This sounds all good good for AMD, that is until Intel provides more detail on Goldmont, their next gen Atom. Goldmont, and its Apollo Lake platform, provides all the essential features one would expect for the most common PC user for a very cheap price. Cherry Tail, based on Airmont was already doing well in Surface 3, if Goldmont as rumours suggest provides much higher IPC ( think Core2 Duo like performance rather then SandyBridge ) and comes with Skylake Gen9 GPU along with much cheaper price, this could be a tough battle. Can wait for both to reveal more details, 2016 will be an interesting year for PC.

tcoppi 11y ago
I agree, Zen + already great GPU designs from AMD in an APU package could be just what AMD needs right now to regain volume PC sales. I think they might actually have a better chance of succeeding here than in the server space where absolute performance/watt is more valued than in PCs and notebooks, but I still think for AMD to really regain their glory(and profits) they need to have the top performing CPU for a while and let it trickle down to APUs instead of eating scraps at the bottom of the pile like they are now.
willtim 11y ago
The state of Skylake software support over the last year for both Linux and Windows (with many Linux issues still unresolved) kills any excitement I might have had for future intel products. To be honest, I'd rather have a slower passively cooled ARM chip, at least then my ultrabook wouldn't sound like a jet engine when some background task kicks in (not to mention battery drain consequences).
- neverminder 11y ago
  I am excited and it's really not about the speed. Future intel product - Kaby Lake (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaby_Lake https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaby_Lake): - Native USB 3.1 support - 200 Series chipset (Union Point) - Thermal design power (TDP) up to 95 W (LGA 1151) - Support for both DDR3L SDRAM and DDR4 SDRAM in mainstream variants, using custom UniDIMM SO-DIMM form factor - Support for 16 PCI Express 3.0 lanes from CPU, 24 PCI Express 3.0 lanes from PCH (LGA 1151) - Support for Thunderbolt 3 - 64 to 128 MB L4 eDRAM cache on certain SKUs - Up to four cores as the default mainstream configuration - Support for Intel Optane Technology - Full fixed function HEVC Main10/10-bit decoding acceleration & VP9 10-bit decoding acceleration. Biggest point for me is native USB 3.1 (Type-C) support. USB Type-C is is projected to be the most abundant socket in the history of humanity.
  - ksec 11y ago
    HEVC fixed function decoding is also in Applo Lake as well. Along with USB 3.1. So if you don't need much performance, Goldmont, at least on paper now seems to offer the same as Kabylake.

petra 11y ago

>> Intel plateaued, no significant user-appreciated progress in the past 5+ years It's not true. Their 3DXpoint memory offers 10x GB/$ of dram, at a speed relatively close to dram.Leaving aside the huge impact on the storage market - Intel even did an exeriment[1] , taking a 8GB Dram computer and comparing it to a 256Mbte Dram(as cache) + 3DXpoint sitting on the main bus - and they performed equally. If that's true(and 3DXpoint has the reliability for such usecase) - this means Intel could possible own the mobile market - and own the full stack of computing. [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXurTRtmfWc&feature=youtu.be&t=39m25s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXurTRtmfWc&feature=youtu.be...

chinhodado 11y ago
Was 3DXpoint released as an actual product in the past 5+ years? I think the post you replied to just talked about progress in actual, released-to-market products, not future R&D that we don't even have a release date for yet.

yvdriess 11y ago

Intel's client computing chips plateaued, but server platforms have kept improving. The volumes might be lower, but the high margins more than make up for it.